1631s Nuestra Señora del Juncal shipwreck in Mexico

[Vox veritas]

1631's Nuestra Señora del Juncal shipwreck in Mexico

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[Chagy]

I have a question concerning The Odyssey case...Ok Spain won the case and tuck the treasure but did they pay Odyssey for the research and their cost to salvage the treasure? So Spain just sits there waiting for us to find the wrecks and then they just come and take it all? So why does the treasure belong to Spain if Spain stole it from the New World? Spain did not discover anything we were already here, we were new to them as they were new to us....

Yea sure let someone else do the hard job and then come claim something that you stole from us....Spain you can kiss my Puertorican a$$....I am tired of this crap....

Sorry but it had to be said,

Chagy......

 

[ou8acracker2]

^ That..enough said

 

[scubatreasure]

^ I'm with them on this topic...except...Spain can kiss my white a$$... NOT sorry, Limo Bob

 

[comfortably numb]

I have a question concerning The Odyssey case...Ok Spain won the case and tuck the treasure but did they pay Odyssey for the research and their cost to salvage the treasure? So Spain just sits there waiting for us to find the wrecks and then they just come and take it all? So why does the treasure belong to Spain if Spain stole it from the New World? Spain did not discover anything we were already here, we were new to them as they were new to us....

Yea sure let someone else do the hard job and the come claim something that you stole from us....Spain you can kiss my Puertorican a$$....I am tired of this crap....

Sorry but it had to be said,

Chagy......

Chagy, It sounds like you may be ready to come to the dark side? Welcome my friend!

 

[Panfilo]

España, México y el tesoro de la Nao Nuestra Señora del Juncal | Intereconomía | 771419

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

I agree with Mangas, it should be a collaboration between Spain and Mexico. With shared research and artifacts to be kept in a Mexican museum .
It is Spanish and Mexican history, Sorry your upset Chagy. I understand your frustration.
Ossy

 

[Vox veritas]

Shipwrecks of 1631 are detailed in my book Galleons and sunken treasure:

Amazon.com: Galleons And Sunken Treasure (9781450724760): Claudio Bonifacio: Books

 

[Panfilo]

Shipwrecks of 1631 are detailed in my book Galleons and sunken treasure:

Amazon.com: Galleons And Sunken Treasure (9781450724760): Claudio Bonifacio: Books

Claudio, have you read Serrano Mangas' book Los Tres Credos de don Andres de Aristizabal?
Ossy, there are two problems that arise here: first the UNESCO Convention proposes in-situ preservation as the first option as both nations are signatories. Secondly Mexico can not engage in the exploration/recovery of the Juncal without Spanish permission which does limit the sovereignty of Mexico in its EEZ, a matter which surely troubles the Mexican government.
Panfilo

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Claudio, have you read Serrano Mangas' book Los Tres Credos de don Andres de Aristizabal?
Ossy, there are two problems that arise here: first the UNESCO Convention proposes in-situ preservation as the first option as both nations are signatories. Secondly Mexico can not engage in the exploration/recovery of the Juncal without Spanish permission which does limit the sovereignty of Mexico in its EEZ, a matter which surely troubles the Mexican government.
Panfilo

Hola Panfilo, Do you know if Mexico has had any contact with Spain on this mater ?? I can't see Spain not agreeing to research and recovering of the Juncal.
Mexico won't sell any of the artifacts, so whats the problem ??
Ossy

 

[Salvor6]

"Mexico won't sell any of the artifacts, so whats the problem?" Ossy you obviously don't know anything about Mexico. The Mexican officials don't want to sell anything so they can steal everything. It will all disappear no matter who controls the treasure.

 

[bobleyland]

Spain are S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T-S.

No, they don't work.
Yes, they wait for you to work then steal what you earn.

 

[Panfilo]

Hola Panfilo, Do you know if Mexico has had any contact with Spain on this mater ?? I can't see Spain not agreeing to research and recovering of the Juncal.
Mexico won't sell any of the artifacts, so whats the problem ??
Ossy

No idea Ossy if Mexico and Spain have discussed the Juncal but one would expect that they certainly have, they have a very close commercial and cultural relation, why would they not talk about it. Being both signatories to the Convention there is no real threat to the future of what is recovered but it will prove to be a test to the eficacy of the mechanisms for all other state parties that have a verifyable link to the Juncal such as Cuba, Panama, etc. Let's suppose that five countries come forth and they each want to share in the conservation and "display" of the recovered artifacts, will Mexico go along with this? Interesting to see what reaction the Mexican politicians and the general public will have when what will be perceived by some as "Mexican patrimony" leaves for other nations in full compliance with the Convention. Mexico is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world and this will be most interesting to watch and see how the story develops, putting into practice what in theory might seam very appealing to some but in reality far more complicated.
The very distinguished and of world renowned trajectory Mexican archaeologist Pilar Luna, by far the leading expert in these matters in Latin America has gone on record stating: "In the specific case of colonial era shipwrecks the principle of "reversion" is applied by which all the goods of the Crown (Spanish) that were not negotiated, became property of Mexico in the moment that Spain recognized our independance." (Proteccion del Patrimonio Cultural Sumergido: el caso de Mexico, 1998, page 9) So this will be fun to watch.
Panfilo

 

[Vox veritas]

Well, I spoke this week with a senior officer of the Naval Museum in Madrid and was swift: all wrecks of the Spanish Navy remain property of Spain. All the "capitanas" and "almirantas" property in Spain, all the ships chartered by the Spanish Navy or the Spanish crown, owned by Spain.
That told me.
Right now we have the interesting case of Bahamas. Bahamas does not share with anyone the wrecks of their territorial waters.
In Dominican Republic the same thing happens with the Concepcion and other shipwrecks. Spain is claiming? Time will tell.