17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

[Crow]

That's the beauty about treasure legends amigos? it takes you down a rabbit hole and you do not know what is real or not anymore? Or even if it was real to begin with?

Crow

 

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[sdcfia]

That's the beauty about treasure legends amigos? it takes you down a rabbit hole and you do not know what is real or not anymore? Or even if it was real to begin with?

Crow

Not just treasure legends Crow. Add history, politics, science and religion to the mix. And with today's technology, what you see, hear, and sense too.

 

[Crow]

I didn't understand that part either. The guy who sent me that email augmented his theories with unsubstantiated ideas. There are a boatload of treasure/Spanish/ancients/etc allegations with connections to Utah - now we can add the Nazis and the LUE.

Strange enough I Wonder if Hardrock Hamond, Karl von Mueller' Both worked in the EARLY aviation industry had connection to pilot William C Elliot or Red Moiser as per 17 tons of gold connected to Leon Trabuco?

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

Strange enough I Wonder if Hardrock Hamond, Karl von Mueller' Both worked in the EARLY aviation industry had connection to pilot William C Elliot or Red Moiser as per 17 tons of gold connected to Leon Trabuco?

Crow

I had lots of questions about the 17 Tons legend too. In the first place, if you wanted to sell $20 gold from Mexico in the US for $32, why risk early-era airplane flights to a crude landing field on some remote New Mexico mesa? Why not just drive it across the border in a likely safer, more reliable truck? A flat tire on a road is one thing, but flight trouble with a heavy load is a whole different animal. Quite a potential risk, IMO.

Also, a border crossing in those days was more of a wink-jab affair with a little mordida here and there to ease the details. After all, New Mexico then, like now, was not much more than a corrupt banana republic. Trabuco may well have had some sort of scam going back then, but the details we've been fed seem like BS to me.

 

[Crow]

1.1 3 billion does look like an insane figure. As insane as it is? But its not an isolated case. of gold being smuggled into the USA.

Ex-employees of Dallas firm accused of importing $1 Billion in illegally mined gold Three ex-employees of NTR Metals in Miami and accomplices from several South American countries coordinated the purchase of gold originating from Peruvian mines controlled by drug traffickers, prosecutors contend.

A man who considered himself the Pablo Escobar of gold smuggling and two other former workers at a Dallas company's Florida refinery imported more than $1 billion in illegally mined gold from South America in a vast money-laundering scheme from 2013 to 2016, U.S. prosecutors say.

In a criminal complaint, the U.S. said that the three ex-employees of NTR Metals Miami and accomplices from several South American countries coordinated the purchase of illegally mined gold originating from Peruvian mines controlled by drug traffickers.

NTR Metals, the Dallas-based parent company, was not charged in the case. The company did not respond to requests for comment.

See the full story there below link.

1 billion gold smuggling operation in Miami

It turns out over 3 billion in gold.

gold smuggling from Peru and Money laundering.


Crow

 

[Crow]

1.1 3 billion does look like an insane figure. As insane as it is? But its not an isolated case. of gold being smuggled into the USA.

Ex-employees of Dallas firm accused of importing $1 Billion in illegally mined gold Three ex-employees of NTR Metals in Miami and accomplices from several South American countries coordinated the purchase of gold originating from Peruvian mines controlled by drug traffickers, prosecutors contend.

A man who considered himself the Pablo Escobar of gold smuggling and two other former workers at a Dallas company's Florida refinery imported more than $1 billion in illegally mined gold from South America in a vast money-laundering scheme from 2013 to 2016, U.S. prosecutors say.

In a criminal complaint, the U.S. said that the three ex-employees of NTR Metals Miami and accomplices from several South American countries coordinated the purchase of illegally mined gold originating from Peruvian mines controlled by drug traffickers.

NTR Metals, the Dallas-based parent company, was not charged in the case. The company did not respond to requests for comment.

See the full story there below link.

1 billion gold smuggling operation in Miami

It turns out over 3 billion in gold.

gold smuggling from Peru and Money laundering.


Crow

I should add this is not proof that 17 tons of gold story is real either. Only that gold is smuggled into united states more than you can imagine.

I worked for large multinational companies all over the world more wealthy than many countries and mining business is dirty business of back room deals where you just a number or cannon fodder to be used up and spat out, when you out lived you usefulness they cut you throat in blink of an eye.

They make deals for large parts of countries shutting everyone out large mining leases pushing the locals off their own land regardless if they agree or not. The locals rarely if ever see a cent. royalties flow into the politicians and bureaucrats as consultancy fees. Everything is over prices with 10% kick back in pseudo companies hidden from public eyes.

Right now we are hearing a song and dance of illegal gold from small dirt miners in Brazil and Peru. As well as west Africa and Phillipines. If they are not Huge multinational mining corporations they are shut out of the intentional gold market. As they are all unfairly deemed drug dealer criminal gangs involved in wild cat mining, Destroying the environment.

The fact is partly true, but not fully true either? because big mining companies owning many of the lease bought through bribery are having their leases pilfered by small miner's. so in essence they have lobbied the powers to be to shut out the small mom and pop miner for selling his gold in the international gold market.

Most of mom and pop, children and all illegal miners work their guts out barely eking a living to put food on the table. if it was not that they would starve. Every bit of countries resources is owned by some one else. usually big business large multinational companies acting like cartels buying political influence.

So the small time miner to sell their gold way under value to middle men who sell the gold back to mining companies with in the country at discount. far less that world gold prices. Try to smuggle gold out of country it is confiscated as illicit gold.

Those who manage to smuggle gold out of these countries bought at huge discounts and make big profits selling gold to refineries in the west.

gold smugglers

This is not new phenomenon its been going on for years.

2 arrested from New York..

So it is not impossible that gold was smuggled for high prices in the united states in the 30's.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is gold output during Mexico protracted civil war to the early 1930's

if we do Crows dodgy math total mined until 1930 that was 1067480 kilograms of gold.

1067480 kilograms of gold. divided by 907.1 kilograms per ton. 1176.69 tons mined from 1521 to 1930. if exclude earlier mining years. Just in the thirty years years we have 497286 kilograms of gold divided by 907.1 we have 548 tons of gold produced though much of Mexico's civil war period up until 1930.

Gold was 660 dollars a kilo in 1930. A ton of gold would of been worth 598686 dollars per ton. So 17 tons of gold does not seem to implausible.

Average gold production was about 18.26 tons per year over 30 years.

But we have to look at the key players did they really have access to gold as per legend?

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

. . .
I worked for large multinational companies all over the world more wealthy than many countries and mining business is dirty business of back room deals where you just a number or cannon fodder to be used up and spat out, when you out lived you usefulness they cut you throat in blink of an eye.
. . .

Crow

No shame from the big boys. Especially the ones with ruthless reputations. Long interesting story, greatly shortened:

A few decades ago, a school principal told me that his brother, who worked as a day-pay equipment operator for one of those "large multinational companies", happened to be present when a classic "hidden tunnel full of gold bars" was accidentally discovered during routine mining operations. The work area was sealed off and all witnesses (management and day-pay) were not only threatened they would lose their jobs if anyone talked to anybody else, but they would be ruthlessly sued until they were ruined permanently and all their extended family members too, if necessary. Good story, yeah ... plausible, yeah ... but IMO then, likely just another good story. I was cautiously skeptical.

Some few years later, I received a phone call from a friend in Los Angeles who was a marine salvor - a guy who also knew a lot about my local dealings here and was familiar with the mine mentioned above. He was also very tight with the biggest salvage lawyer on the west coast at that time. My pal started the conversation, "You're not going to believe this!"

The lawyer had revealed to my pal that a large mining company in the Southwest had contacted him to very quietly and privately dispose of "a lot of gold", overseas - and no paper trail please.

 

[sdcfia]

. . .
So it is not impossible that gold was smuggled for high prices in the united states in the 30's.

Crow

Of course it was, from inside and outside the border. Human nature always rules.

 

[releventchair]

I had lots of questions about the 17 Tons legend too. In the first place, if you wanted to sell $20 gold from Mexico in the US for $32, why risk early-era airplane flights to a crude landing field on some remote New Mexico mesa? Why not just drive it across the border in a likely safer, more reliable truck? A flat tire on a road is one thing, but flight trouble with a heavy load is a whole different animal. Quite a potential risk, IMO.

Also, a border crossing in those days was more of a wink-jab affair with a little mordida here and there to ease the details. After all, New Mexico then, like now, was not much more than a corrupt banana republic. Trabuco may well have had some sort of scam going back then, but the details we've been fed seem like BS to me.

Don't quote me , it's been too long..

In the seventies or eighties there was an account (lost to my memory as a trivia more than business mode) of a marijuana smuggling outfit that pilot(s) could allegedly receive 50 grand even if wrecking the plane on landing.
I suspect a stolen craft was involved. Which affects the monetary risk.
It begs the question too of how (or flying what) the pilot returned South. Assuming such was the plan.
And , how many wrecked abandon stolen craft were reported found? Some. How many stolen?
Trouble with popular small smuggling craft vs tons of gold is cargo /weight capacity.
It adds up over time/repeated trips though?
And we've evidence of tunnels as well.
One notable one into near San Diego with, rails on it's floor.
[US authorities have discovered an underground smuggling tunnel on the California-Mexico border that runs the length of six football fields and contains reinforced walls, electricity, ventilation and a rail system.]

Drug smuggling tunnel with rail system uncovered on US-Mexico border

The ventilated underground passage runs the length of six football fields and also contains reinforced walls and electricity supply

www.theguardian.com

 

[Crow]

I did a cursory search on the main characters behind the story in Mexico birth death and marriages. Out of the 4 alleged conspirators they was two possible hits. the professor just did not have a first name so it was hard to confirm. But Leon Trabaco did not show up at. birth or marriage records baptism etc. There is no record of him ever entering the country. Strange enough of the other two?

They it appear some one by the name existed in that time frame? One even crossed the border Laredo Texas several times. 2 of them alleged to be rich ranchers as appeared to live in Nuvoleon.. But Leon Trabaco there is no record of him in births and baptisms in Mexico. This is for me red flag.

At least with the name.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

Repatriation saw nearly two million people switching to the South in the early thirties.
A shuffling opportunity for those taking advantage of it; and why not a name change /alias in the process when you can afford it? More so if you have something to protect by doing so. Like alleged wealth /being a millionaire.

[Ed interviewed another Navajo woman who was six years old in 1933. Ed said she remembered several Mexican men who lived on the Reservation:]

“This would be very unusual for a Mexican to move out here. For a Spanish or a White man to move out here and live would be unheard of.”

Leon Trabuco's Gold

A Mexican businessman buries 16 tons of gold in the New Mexico desert and then dies before telling anyone where it is. Read more now.

unsolved.com

Perhaps not so unusual to live on or near a reservation in the more quiet environs if you're not really Mexican - Mexican during an era when packing wealth wasn't going to go unnoticed long.. And it wouldn't seem to require much to appear wealthy. Let alone an alleged million in net worth!
But I might impress potential partners of more .

Airport screening and gold rounds? Expect a flag on the play. Even with legal collector rounds/coins.
Meanwhile how many gold necklaces pass through? Perfectly legal to own, wear, display.

That's part of what seems off in buried tons.
Craftsmen and woman existed in Mexico and beyond outside the U.S.A..
Traffic went to and fro across the borders.
Why not an increase in gold chains? You keep a portion of the gold in exchange for processing it into chains for me/us.
And that is only if the gold had to go North. No market existed elsewhere?
When the anticipated value didn't increase it could be considered a decrease.
So start recouping before investors see greater loss.
Bury my share because the U.S. is confiscating? Hmm. But the U.S. was buying.. Why couldn't gold be sold to the treasury or added into mining traffic flow?

[Effectively, there was one buyer of gold in the world – the US Treasury. It has been estimated that between 1930 and 1939 while new mine supply was 9,126 m.t., the addition to monetary stock was 10,634 m.t., meaning the official sector took every last ounce of mine output and then some dishoarded gold too. This does not entirely square with the BIS report in 1938 of 3,000 m.t. of new private hoarding, but the internal statistics o]

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famguardian.org

 

[associated Treasurehunter]

Bob I called you on Friday on my way through but I guess I missed you,sorry the message did not come out clear,I was in the middle of a very big dust storm just east of your house,will send u an email with my # again,I have some more info on the canyon need to get up there very soon I think maybe spend a few days if you can swing it?have been around the Aztec area have some info from an old man on a few things that went on up there in the thirties(he's passed on now but my memory is good)
Happy Easter
Buddy

I have that target, but I have not been to it yet when I found the signal, I was chasing another target in Colorado and was passing through, but I made note of the signal and signal is coming from south east of Farmington, is this the area it should be in ?

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

17 tons, and what do I get?
Another day older and deeper and debt.
Saint Peter don't call me cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to a treasure filled hole

 

[Crow]

Repatriation saw nearly two million people switching to the South in the early thirties.
A shuffling opportunity for those taking advantage of it; and why not a name change /alias in the process when you can afford it? More so if you have something to protect by doing so. Like alleged wealth /being a millionaire.

[Ed interviewed another Navajo woman who was six years old in 1933. Ed said she remembered several Mexican men who lived on the Reservation:]

Leon Trabuco's Gold

A Mexican businessman buries 16 tons of gold in the New Mexico desert and then dies before telling anyone where it is. Read more now.

unsolved.com

Perhaps not so unusual to live on or near a reservation in the more quiet environs if you're not really Mexican - Mexican during an era when packing wealth wasn't going to go unnoticed long.. And it wouldn't seem to require much to appear wealthy. Let alone an alleged million in net worth!
But I might impress potential partners of more .

Airport screening and gold rounds? Expect a flag on the play. Even with legal collector rounds/coins.
Meanwhile how many gold necklaces pass through? Perfectly legal to own, wear, display.

That's part of what seems off in buried tons.
Craftsmen and woman existed in Mexico and beyond outside the U.S.A..
Traffic went to and fro across the borders.
Why not an increase in gold chains? You keep a portion of the gold in exchange for processing it into chains for me/us.
And that is only if the gold had to go North. No market existed elsewhere?
When the anticipated value didn't increase it could be considered a decrease.
So start recouping before investors see greater loss.
Bury my share because the U.S. is confiscating? Hmm. But the U.S. was buying.. Why couldn't gold be sold to the treasury or added into mining traffic flow?

[Effectively, there was one buyer of gold in the world – the US Treasury. It has been estimated that between 1930 and 1939 while new mine supply was 9,126 m.t., the addition to monetary stock was 10,634 m.t., meaning the official sector took every last ounce of mine output and then some dishoarded gold too. This does not entirely square with the BIS report in 1938 of 3,000 m.t. of new private hoarding, but the internal statistics o]

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famguardian.org

Name changing to hide ones past was pretty much able to do with ease right up until the late 80's when rules of identification became a lot stricter with points requiring system of identification drivers license, rates notice, passport etc

identity theft still goes on today.but it harder now to create false identity. I could tell you the full story about an old safe cracker now dead one day. He got arrested years ago in late 60's and he was arrested and charged on his assumed name.

Police never had the resources to uncover his real name. Since his false name was now registered in the system they always assumed it was his real name? After doing two stints of jail time with that false name. As for the police concerned checking their data base, finger prints etc it came back to his false name.

So I would not disagree with about the point people could change their names. However Leon Trabaco there is no trace of him anywhere in the world.

Unsolved mysteries also added to the myth. For example the picture of Mexicans shown of Leon Trabaco and his co conspirators was just actors on the the show.

How much of the story is real to begin with?

Crow

 

[Crow]

17 tons, and what do I get?
Another day older and deeper and debt.
Saint Peter don't call me cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to a treasure filled hole

Envoy

How dare ya think you can die before paying your debt off. Think of all the banking executives will not get their big bonuses to buy holiday homes and this years top of range sports car!

What makes you think your going upstairs baby? Ya going down the slide like me. I am going to burn baby burn!

So I have been told by academics, archeologists. and powers that be!

Crow

 

[associated Treasurehunter]

I am a master dowser. I’m going to look for this Treasure in New Mexico April 3 wanna go with me let me know I know I can find it.

 

[3cylbill]

I am a master dowser. I’m going to look for this Treasure in New Mexico April 3 wanna go with me let me know I know I can find it.

Could you post your master dowsers diploma from a highly accredited college of Master dowsers....please...

 

[associated Treasurehunter]

Could you post your master dowsers diploma from a highly accredited college of Master dowsers....please...

I have spent 15 years and hundred thousand dollars perfecting my abilities, my diploma is self taught, self labor, And determination never give up, I have Dug 150 holes or more from Florida to California. I have recovered many minerals that I’ve been able to eliminate. I’ve also been able to identify those minerals now I believe my accuracy is 98% and I don’t want nobody’s money, just looking for some good targets to help people with for an equal share, I’m not a dowser like most dowsers, I have a proprietary instrument that will take me to large stashes if they are buried in the ground for many many miles and walk right on top of I am ready, I’ll be leaving for New Mexico on the third I am in Texas now then I’ll be going to Arizona coming back to New Mexico and then back to Texas. I have many targets identified by research and will try to identify the owner and get a search and salvage agreement signed and will need help for recovery

 

[associated Treasurehunter]

You can see what I do on the discovery channel Josh Gates, expeditions unknown season seven episode six identifying Florida, Pirates, Juan Gomez, Casarella, the pirate