Ancient Coin found in NY

[andygold]

Got your attention!!??!!

Extreme Find!!! Something that Metal Detection Expert Gary Drayton would probably call a "Bobby Dazzler", or at least a "Top Pocket Find" (Ode to The Curse of Oak Island). Best I can tell, it's a Roman coin from around 330 AD. It's almost the exact same size as a US penny, and it's quite toasty. It has the Emperor Crispus (son of Emperor Constantine) on it. I looked it up online and cannot find the exact coin, but I did find something extremely close, with the same wording, but with small differences. The question I've been getting asked is where did I dig it up.

It was in my wife's change bucket at home... She actually got it as change for a purchase in a local store. Which store, she doesn't know. She gets change, doesn't count it, and just throws it in her purse. She empties her purse into the bucket when it starts to fill up her purse. She noticed it wasn't a US penny and asked me to take a look. Under magnification I instantly noticed that the strike on the reverse was very much off center, which got my curiosity rolling. On the obverse, I was able to make out the letters RISPVSNO, and a Google search of the lettering along with the word "coin" came up with images of Roman coins and the Emperor Crispus.

I live in the US near the Canadian border and I can only assume that some cashier got it as change and probably figured it was Canadian or just too dirty to keep in his/her drawer, and promptly gave it back out as change. How a 1700 year old coin got back in to circulation in the first place I will never know, but I'm happy it did.

My phone does not take great pictures, but these were the clearest I was able to get. I didn't want to clean the coin, and left it as I got it. I guess I should probably dig out my digital camera and see if I can get better images. Wit that said, here is what I currently have.


Coin appears to me to be copper, as it looks like a really crusty US penny (almost same exact size as a penny). Flash from my phone is making it look silvery. I found a mostly similar coin online, but the right arm on my coin goes out from the shoulder and then up, while the image online has the arm going down from the shoulder, and then out.


The "RISPVSNO" is easily observed at the top of coin.

 

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[smokeythecat]

It's a coin from the Roman Empire. It is actually not unusual to find them here on this side of the pond. People have them as souvenirs and lose them. I have found four over the years. I just found another from a site nearby. Thought it was just a piece of junk at first as not as nice as yours.

 

[andygold]

It's a coin from the Roman Empire. It is actually not unusual to find them here on this side of the pond. People have them as souvenirs and lose them. I have found four over the years. I just found another from a site nearby. Thought it was just a piece of junk at first as not as nice as yours.

I didn't realize that people were digging them up here in the US. Europe, Asia, Northern Africa & Middle East I figured they'd be there, but never figured they'd be underground here. I can see the lost souvenir angle, but didn't figure anyone from that era was traveling to North America, other than possibly the Vikings, and the later Phoenicians if they were still around.

 

[Mackaydon]

If you can read the letters in the exergue, that would get you closer to a better attribution.
Don....

 

[Hawks88]

Interesting find. Congrats

 

[smokeythecat]

The ancient Romans were never here. There is no evidence, with that said, souvenirs, good possibility. On once occasion we found Roman and Byzantine coins at a South Carolina plantation. Apparently the owner collected coins 200 years ago. House burned down and they were never recovered.

The ships coming back during WWII from both Italy and North Africa used sand as ballast, they dumped it in, along with Roman coins.

Sometimes ships' captains would collect them while abroad and eventually lose them. Don't fall for the "Romans were here" thing.

 

[gunsil]

Back around 1959 or so my aunt went on a trip to the mideast, Egypt, Syria, Israel. Knowing I was a kid who liked old coins she brought back a sack of them for me, probably about half a sandwich baggie full. These things washed out of ruins all over the place over there and cost very little yet were 1,000-2,000 years old. I had easily a hundred or more and today I don't have a single one, I lost or traded them all off by the time I was 17 (5-6 years). Most of my friends who I had traded them to lost theirs. I did find an ancient coin in MA but I am sure it was dropped by some kid like me, not an early over 2,000 year ago visitor to this country. I sure would love to hunt over in those countries but now Americans are not really welcome and I am sure they might night like a yankee digging about with a detector. Must still be tons of old coins still in the ground.

 

[andygold]

If you can read the letters in the exergue, that would get you closer to a better attribution.
Don....

Coin is too corroded and/or has too much garbage on the surface to be able to read anything in that area. I was afraid to rinse and brush it (if it may have some value) so I've left it as it sits. I did find on a website some other roman coins and saw selling prices in the $8.00 to $35.00 range (shockingly low I thought for very old coins), with a very few in the low hundreds....so maybe if it's not worth much, I will take a tooth brush to it.

 

[Philvis]

In my best Oak Island narrator voice: Romans in New York State? Did Emperor Constantine's son send a legion to North America to hide Templar treasure 1000 years before the order existed?

 

[RustyGold]

Awesome coin find and without a metal detector. I’ve often thought if my wife detected she would out hunt me. Lol! Best of luck and thanks for the pics.

 

[CRUSADER]

Crispus, Roman Imperial Coinage reference, Thumbnail Index - WildWinds.com
If you haven't already, this is the best site to get a full attribution.

As stated by others we have had multiple Tneters post Roman Coins from US soil.

 

[andygold]

Crispus, Roman Imperial Coinage reference, Thumbnail Index - WildWinds.com
If you haven't already, this is the best site to get a full attribution.

As stated by others we have had multiple Tneters post Roman Coins from US soil.

I actually contacted Dane at WildWinds a few days ago, and send her some images. Very knowledgeable woman!!! The coin exists on the site, listed as Trier RIC VII 176, minted from 317 to 318 AD. It is Crispus on the obverse, and Sol on the reverse, holding a globe in his left hand. Crispus is laureate (has laurel fronds in his hair), he is cuirassed and draped (cuirassed-wearing the armor plating of the military. Draped-wearing a flowing robe). The drape sometimes has a gather on the shoulder, sometimes looking like a ring or buckle. The exergue which is located below the feet on the reverse of the coin shows a "BTR" mint mark (made in Trier Germany). Sol the sun god (has rays projecting from his head) on the reverse is standing looking left (from our viewpoint), has a chlamys (short cloak) on his left shoulder, and has his right hand in the air, left hand holding said globe.

Dane has only 1 of this coin in her extensive collection. Another coin she described to me regarding variations in the dies. She owns over 3,000 examples of that particular coin. So many were made in so many differing mints from London through Europe to the middle east and northern Africa (Roman empire was quite huge), that no two of the 3,000 coins are an exact match to each other. Every time a die would crack, break, or wear out, a new engraving was made, and the engraver who might have been a different one from the last one, would add his own little differences in the dies, making finding exact duplicates difficult to impossible. And the dies from mint to mint were made by different engravers, so two mints near each other making the same coin might not be all that close looking to each other's coins.

One very important thing she stressed in regards to cleaning bronze coins is to not do what most "experts" tell you to do....and that is to soak it in Olive Oil. Dane says olive oil will destroy your bronze coins. She recommended water, a toothbrush, and some "washing-up liquid", which I take to be liquid hand soap. After cleaning (hopefully the coin does not have Bronze Disease on it), she said to put the coin on a radiator for a few days and then turn it over and let it sit some more. It must be 110% dry. Then once dry, a layer of either Renaissance Wax or 100% pure beeswax can be used to protect and polish it up a bit. My coin, although scarce, if it cleans up a bit and more becomes legible it may be worth around US $25.00 So, not very valuable fiscally, but valuable for the story behind it, and the new knowledge I have gained.

 

[smokeythecat]

I bought a set of something called "Andre's Pencils" off the net. They are an advertiser here. They are relatively short wooden "pencils" with brass and steel wool tips. Excellent for cleaning old coins without scratching the snot out of them. They are not expensive.

 

[andygold]

I bought a set of something called "Andre's Pencils" off the net. They are an advertiser here. They are relatively short wooden "pencils" with brass and steel wool tips. Excellent for cleaning old coins without scratching the snot out of them. They are not expensive.

Good to know! Thank you.

 

[CRUSADER]

I actually contacted Dane at WildWinds a few days ago, and send her some images. Very knowledgeable woman!!! The coin exists on the site, listed as Trier RIC VII 176, minted from 317 to 318 AD. It is Crispus on the obverse, and Sol on the reverse, holding a globe in his left hand. Crispus is laureate (has laurel fronds in his hair), he is cuirassed and draped (cuirassed-wearing the armor plating of the military. Draped-wearing a flowing robe). The drape sometimes has a gather on the shoulder, sometimes looking like a ring or buckle. The exergue which is located below the feet on the reverse of the coin shows a "BTR" mint mark (made in Trier Germany). Sol the sun god (has rays projecting from his head) on the reverse is standing looking left (from our viewpoint), has a chlamys (short cloak) on his left shoulder, and has his right hand in the air, left hand holding said globe.

Dane has only 1 of this coin in her extensive collection. Another coin she described to me regarding variations in the dies. She owns over 3,000 examples of that particular coin. So many were made in so many differing mints from London through Europe to the middle east and northern Africa (Roman empire was quite huge), that no two of the 3,000 coins are an exact match to each other. Every time a die would crack, break, or wear out, a new engraving was made, and the engraver who might have been a different one from the last one, would add his own little differences in the dies, making finding exact duplicates difficult to impossible. And the dies from mint to mint were made by different engravers, so two mints near each other making the same coin might not be all that close looking to each other's coins.

One very important thing she stressed in regards to cleaning bronze coins is to not do what most "experts" tell you to do....and that is to soak it in Olive Oil. Dane says olive oil will destroy your bronze coins. She recommended water, a toothbrush, and some "washing-up liquid", which I take to be liquid hand soap. After cleaning (hopefully the coin does not have Bronze Disease on it), she said to put the coin on a radiator for a few days and then turn it over and let it sit some more. It must be 110% dry. Then once dry, a layer of either Renaissance Wax or 100% pure beeswax can be used to protect and polish it up a bit. My coin, although scarce, if it cleans up a bit and more becomes legible it may be worth around US $25.00 So, not very valuable fiscally, but valuable for the story behind it, and the new knowledge I have gained.

Understand all of that thanks, we (Dad & I ) found over 1500 Roman Bronze coins last year & IDed them all. (other than the very scrappy ones)

What is interesting is she cleans her coins in the same way we do, including the Renaissance Wax.

 

[andygold]

Understand all of that thanks, we (Dad & I ) found over 1500 Roman Bronze coins last year & IDed them all. (other than the very scrappy ones)

What is interesting is she cleans her coins in the same way we do, including the Renaissance Wax.

Sorry CRUSADER, I didn't mean to direct the description and explanation to you. I was just trying to describe things to others as to what to look for to identify the Romans. I was intending to say to you that I knew about WildWinds...then I went off on my tangent, explain things of note. I figured if you knew about WildWinds, you definitely wouldn't need any explanation 😁.

1500 coins!!!! Wow, that was some productive site. Was it one location, or spread around a localized area?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good post. Interesting read.

A buddy of mine found a Roman coin, in an oldtown demolition site, in Monterey, CA. He deciphered the date as something like AD 100-ish. He always assumed, from the git-go, that it was merely a souvenir item brought back to the USA by a returning soldier after WWI or WWII.

As gunsil points out: Ancient coins get traded, sold, bought etc.... in Europe , even back-in-the-day. When I was a kid (1970s), a family friend returned from a vacation to the Greece and the Holy land. And .... walking through the tourist district of all the street-vendors, he saw one vendor had a dish filled with ancient coins. Our family friend picked out a few, and paid a buck or two each, and brought them back as souvenirs. When he asked the street-vendor "where did you get these?". The fellow said something like : They wash out in a certain ravine after heavy rains. haha

 

[CRUSADER]

Sorry CRUSADER, I didn't mean to direct the description and explanation to you. I was just trying to describe things to others as to what to look for to identify the Romans. I was intending to say to you that I knew about WildWinds...then I went off on my tangent, explain things of note. I figured if you knew about WildWinds, you definitely wouldn't need any explanation .

1500 coins!!!! Wow, that was some productive site. Was it one location, or spread around a localized area?

We discover 1-3 new Roman Sites a year, we are on about 47 now.

Forgot to mention ''Washing up liquid'' is for washing your dishes, not your hands.

 

[andygold]

Forgot to mention ''Washing up liquid'' is for washing your dishes, not your hands.

Noted! Thanks. I'm probably going to clean the coin when the weather turns warmer and I can lay it out in my sun room to thoroughly dry.

 

[Plumbata]

Quite remarkable to get a Roman bronze in change!

I've read that in rural India, ancient silver coinage from the Indo-Scythian kingdom and various Indian kingdoms/empires still circulates, basically on the basis of silver weight value as far as I understand, but finding a Roman "in circulation" in the Western World is a delightful surprise, congrats!