Another 5.75 coil question

[68kaiser]

Hello I am looking at getting a 5.75 coil. I cant decide on a concentric or wide scan. I understand the wide will get better depth on bad ground but at what point is the ground bad enough to need it? I don't mine the cone shape and having to slow down with the concentric, the whole point of a small coil is to go slow and find the targets. Can any of you with either coil comment on the depth you get. I read a lot on depth but hard to tell what is truth and bull$hit. Thanks. And this will be for my vaquero

 

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[doggoneitdignit]

Great post, I think what you are refering to is true. Always wondered if slowing down with the concentric will give you more depth when compared to the wide scan as the concentric I think it would 'tone' in better on a target because the way it receives the signal as conic, especially with a good set of headphones. Now as everybody would say you would do better with the 5.75 CC in trashy areas while the WS will do better in higher mineralization soil, this holds true but on depth I would think the DD WS coils are 'slightly' deeper, but because we are talking about smaller coils with deeper targets in the ground I would say not by much.

I have debated this topic for months, where I live I do not have higher mineralization soil but rather basic neutral more acidic soil and areas salty soil. That I do not say is high mineralization soil my soil is dark greysoilic type soil with low iron I imagine, I like the CC because in my area there is trashy parks. I do well with my Vaquero in areas that I can benifit with my 11x8 DD coil, love that, and my 5.75 CC , like you said after I hit the deeper and trashy targets with level 5 discrimination on my 11x8 after I am done with that swing slow with the 5.75 with the CC, BUT reaching for that smarller coil after for targets you should be swinging slow anyways and find deeper targets still with your 11x8 anyways let alone the 5.75" which 9/10 I always swing slower with this coil as it is smaller and you are always going to be covering 'less' ground so you better be slow with that coil, and that is why alot of people are hitting some decent and deep targets with this coil.

Sorry I cannot touch much on the 5.75 ws coil, I would only pick this up if you are only dealing with higher mineralization though then I would go with it, and don't compare depth between the two as many people have mentioned on this site, like you mentioned the cc and ws are averaging pretty well on depth regardless.

Slowing down more on the smaller cc vs the ws I would say you would be hearing targets differently, but I cannot reply to this and would let others respond instead. Maybe a 1/2" at most on the ws if am going to guess on this, but really depends on the target vs the two coils, and if you don't slow down on the cc vs the ws you are going to miss more targets compared to the ws.

HH.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Just another thouht. I generally would think this as a Tesoro owner.. it is better to be more rounded out to the coils to own with the machines you love gives you versatility and flexibility, so being without the two would not be a problem, but if we are not talking trash or mineralization and on depth this is what I would do..If you own a 9x8 web concentric go with the ws 5.75, if you own a 11x8 DD, go with the cc 5.75 I seem to think it would be wise to 'start' this route before making a decision to purchase another smaller coil.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Here is another thing to think about just on WS vs CC coils in general when comparing the two on normal low iron soil conditions with little water on newer coins that have not been affected by the 'Halo" effect for strength of signal alone on all metal mode. What would penetrate harder on transmitting and receiving on a valid id target concentric or wide scan coil or the same. For some reason does single, dual or vs multi frequency have an better penetration effect of strength on receiving the target? Sounds to me that multi frequency/ws would give you more depth vs the concentric type coil which uses a single or dual type frequency.

I like these link describing the two differences that may help understanding the differences.

Truth About Search Coils

https://www.bigboyshobbies.net/double-d-coil-vs-concentric-coils/

 

[digger27]

On my Vaq using the small concentric sniper in good Midwestern dirt the thing got pretty decent depth...deep as I wanted to dig anyway.
In extremely bad soil here in he city of Birmingham where I have mineralized red clay soil plus extra helpings of iron infused into most of my soil, not just the red stuff but the black type too, it is so bad that even my big DD coil I bought to combat this stuff never really showed a whole lot of appreciable gains.
I know more now about using it and deep target behavior than I did a few years ago but now with even more knowledge using my small concentric it still seems I can get pretty much as deep as most other detectors and coils.
Close to it, anyway.

I have had experience with hunting a range of soil from heavenly almost perfect low mineralized stuff in Kansas and Missouri to the normal high mineralized type in most of Alabama to the very bad mineralized with extra added iron devil dirt we have here in the city proper and I have an opinion.
In good soil all coils can get deep, depending on the tool they are mounted on, although the DD's do have that wider scanning field down deeper which gives you confidence in searching for those deep hits without extreme overlapping of the coil.
In some levels of mineralization, lower levels, using DD coils can deal with it better and get you better depth, measurable depth as it can tune out those minerals and especially proficient using manual GB units like the Vaq.
In extreme levels of mineralization but especially in my worst stuff here with the tiny nodules of iron infused into most if it even DD's don't appear to have that great of an advantage over concentrics.
Just my opinion but reached with experience using my Vaq, the standard concentric, the 10x12 DD comparing the depth reached at the same sites using both regular settings and supertuning and even power balancing.
I bought the big coil expecting a huge difference compared to that standard coil but I never saw it.
Again I was much more if a newbie back then so results might have been colored with my lack of knowledge and ability, using and comparing all of these coils and settings now there might be better results so I will have to try it sometime using that Vaq.

I can tell you using a very powerful F70 in my worst stuff here a standard concentric and a big DD coil along with a smaller 5" DD sniper all seem to get to the same depth.
Not the same results in the great Kansas soil but here the dirt seems to make it all a more even playing field.

As far as screen units there are tips and techniques that can make using DD's in heavy trashy problem sites like those loaded with pop tops very easy to deal with, fast and efficiently.
A DD coil on my Tesoro in that same kind of site is a nightmare for me and not fun.
Even if there are techniques I can use to tell pop tops and other junk from the good stuff it takes too long to do maneuvering the coil and thumbing the disc knob and I have no patience for that.
Using a concentric on my Vaq, or my Compadre, makes hunting in sites like that fast, efficient, accurate and fun...a pleasure, not a hassle.

Because of the sharper disc abilities and the fact that I tend to hunt public sites with lots of problem trash opting for a concentric sniper coil for me to use on my Vaq when I decided to get one was a no-brainer and the perfect choice.
After moving back to this problem soil in the SE. that concentric sniper is the only coil I have used on the hunts I have taken out the Vaq and it seems to work well.
Future hunts I might change it up but for now in my mineralized iron and trash infested normal hunting areas the sniper concentric is my go-to coil for all these reasons.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Also you can read up on Tesoro website as well has some good reads on technology and metal detecting.

Tesoro Metal Detectors - Official company web site with metal detector models for treasure hunting land or water.

 

[68kaiser]

I have the 11x8 RDS coil on my v now. I live in northern ca and the soil is not to bad. I am currently working on the coast and the ground is horrible here. Got to move the GB knob a lot to get it balanced. Its a very big change from where I like live. Thanks for the info. Keep it coming I like to read your thoughts on them.

 

[68kaiser]

I will most likely buy both at some point.. I just want to get the one that will work best for me in the ground I hunt until I can get both types. I got a 4" for my f4 and was not impressed with how it worked, the I'd was way off and depth was not to good. Mabey if I got it tuned for the coil it would be better. After that purchase I am hesitant to spend money on a coil for the V and have it not work for me. I love the 11x8 it works very well but I know I am missing targets with it.

 

[pinenut]

The 5.75" widescan works well everywhere. The 5.75" concentric works better in very trashy spots, especially when dealing with nails and/or bottlecaps. If you do a search for my older posts here, I had the same question regarding concentric vs DD 5.75s. I couldn't decide, so started off with the widescan (a DD) and I loved it... Out of curiosity, and after getting a couple more Tesoros, I wanted to try the 5.75" concentric. I like the disc ability and pinpointing better with the concentric, but it is more sensitive to hot rocks, and requires more frequent fine tuning of the GB than the widescan. Depth seems about the same with either, but the widescan requires less sweep overlap. Disc works better with the concentric... Neither is an expensive coil, so get both, try 'em and keep the one you like most... ^_^

 

[68kaiser]

Pinenut how was the depth compared to your bigger stock coil?

 

[doggoneitdignit]

I will most likely buy both at some point.. I just want to get the one that will work best for me in the ground I hunt until I can get both types. I got a 4" for my f4 and was not impressed with how it worked, the I'd was way off and depth was not to good. Mabey if I got it tuned for the coil it would be better. After that purchase I am hesitant to spend money on a coil for the V and have it not work for me. I love the 11x8 it works very well but I know I am missing targets with it.

I get the same feeling I think I am missing targets with the 11x8 as well where as the smaller coils may hit them better, odd but true. Pinenut is true on saying what he is talking about pinpointing and discrimination with the cc from what I have read and agree I have been picking up more hot rocks with mine as well more GB adjustments, I notice this when I am using it in tot lots with gravel more so in the playground, and makes sense, and does work better when away from hot rocks in the normal soil junk still areas where I am hitting more targets why I am using the 5.75 more often then my 11x8, but someday would like to own the smaller ws.

 

[68kaiser]

I do have hot rocks (hate those things) and and other factors. I think I will go with the wide scan first. The only part that worry's me is the depth it will get. I will get the consentric and make the wide scan pay for it

 

[Hobojo]

I have the 5.75" widescan on my Vaq and it's the best. I get only slightly less depth and would HIGHLY recommend the coil.

 

[pinenut]

Pinenut how was the depth compared to your bigger stock coil?

Depth is still good with the 5.75s (both) but it does lose a little compared to the larger stock coils. Hot rocks are not a problem with either coil, I just notice them more with the concentric. After using each one for quite a while, if I had to choose only one 5.75, it would definitely be the concentric.
Both are good, but the concentric is better... If you've never used a 5.75 on your Vaquero, then either one should make you happy.
I guess everyone has their favorite though. ^_^

 

[68kaiser]

Thanks guys. Your info is great and appreciated.

 

[digger27]

I will most likely buy both at some point.. I just want to get the one that will work best for me in the ground I hunt until I can get both types. I got a 4" for my f4 and was not impressed with how it worked, the I'd was way off and depth was not to good. Mabey if I got it tuned for the coil it would be better. After that purchase I am hesitant to spend money on a coil for the V and have it not work for me. I love the 11x8 it works very well but I know I am missing targets with it.

There is a big difference between the power ranges regarding the F4 and a Vaquero.
I have the F2, I also have a Vaq and an F70.
I have used them all in both great and bad soil and it is not apples to apples when thinking about these coils and what they can accomplish, how deep they can get when mounted on different detectors.
Also the kind of dirt you hunt in has to be taken into account.

I love the F2/F4 platform, I really do, but after many hundreds of hours using the F2, the Vaq and now the F70 I can tell you there is a difference.

The lower end F series is decently powerful, many have gone up to the 10"+ area when using the bigger coils but I have never heard anyone post about a sniper coil going a whole lot further than 6"...ever.
I myself with the sense turned up in almost perfect soil on the F2, which has the same power range as the F4, never could get much past that 6" mark...Maybe a bit more in wet soil but there is a limit.
It just can't, like asking a Volkswagon to pull the same load as a semi.
As much as you wish it could it just can't do more than it is capable of doing.
The Vaq in that same soil with the concentric sniper could easily surpass that Mark up to the 10" or more area...it just has the extra power to do it.
In that same soil the F70 with a sniper coil has gotten me signals up to the 12" area and even a few up to 14" on the depth meter but I never dug them.
Not saying the Fisher is that much powerful than the Vaq but just comparing the signals I got and actually dug they are both more powerful than the F2/F4...with any coil including the snipers.

In bad dirt, and now I hunt in very bad dirt and have used all three units with sniper coils in that too, the depth levels using all of them in the bad stuff is curtailed compared to the great dirt but still I have seen both the F70 and the Vaq reach deeper by a few inches than that F2.
It is a matter of detector design and physics.

I was never disappointed with the depth I got using the sniper on the F2, it got me deep enough to find plenty and the bulk of my targets don't seem to hang out much deeper than the 5-6" most of the time anyway, but using the snipers on my Vaq and F70 in both types of soil actually shocked me a few times.

So what I am trying to say is don't compare the F4 and a small coil and the a Vaq and a small coil...it isn't scientific or a fair comparison logically thinking because they are two completely different tools with different capabilities.
I can't really tell you exactly how deep your Vaq can get with a sniper coil in your soil but I can guess it will be more...maybe a whole lot more depending on the dirt you are dealing with in your sites.

A 4 cylinder Toyota Corolla and an 8 cylinder Mustang are both cars, both have 4 wheels, a steering wheel and many similar features and both get you where you want to go but they are not the same, power plant wise...you would not expect them to be knowing what we know about engine differences.

Don't compare the F4 to others...it does what it does and goes where it goes according to its capabilities and does a great job doing it but by no means are all detectors the same so don't think of them that way.

 

[68kaiser]

Thanks digger. I do like my f4 and use it in very trash places where I am over welmed with the vaquero and its one tone hitting multiple targets nonstop, the f4 shines at places like that. I will be getting a 5.75 for the v soon I hope. And will give a update.

 

[bibelot]

I would choose the wide scan and this is why. Both coils do a great job while detecting near the surface, however the concentric cone detection field shrinks in depth. The chances of missing a deeper target is greater with a concentric than a wide scan. A wide scan gives you a more accurate reading if you use a Deleon or cortes. The drawback to a wide scan is pinpointing can be less precise at times and a slightly greater affinity to iron. If your pinpoint is off, it is usually a bent nail or bottle cap instead of good target.A small wide scan will allow more sensitivity settings as there will be fewer targets scanned at the same time, hopefully translating into less masking of good targets. You are less likely to miss a target from not overlapping correctly with a wide scan. The wide scan will provide the most coil coverage and depth of the two.

 

[digger27]

Thanks digger. I do like my f4 and use it in very trash places where I am over welmed with the vaquero and its one tone hitting multiple targets nonstop, the f4 shines at places like that. I will be getting a 5.75 for the v soon I hope. And will give a update.

As far as being overwhelmed well, that can happen when you use a tool that can sense metal both shallow and deep like the Vaq can...there is an awful lot of it in the dirt we hunt.
Many different ways to use these tools and we all do it differently.
I myself never really got into doing the set the knob at one level and dig everything that beeps above it since like the second day I used my Vaq, that kind of hunting never appealed to me.
What I did enjoy was thumbing the knob on every target to see where they faded out and tried to figure them out before I dug like the manuals describe...kind of a game I have always played with myself since that second hunt.
Soon enough I went beyond that method and went to the thumb up past the fade out area then back down slowly while swinging over targets instead.
This became a much more accurate way to do this for me.
I continued to do this after I bought and used a Compadre also and have done that for years, still use that method to this day.
As time went on and I got better and better at the language of that one tone, and especially as I learned the behavior of most types of targets and how they sounded and behaved as I dialed back down I got even more accurate at this as I got better.
I used to dig a ton of trash in the old days, it is just what I did because the what if's would really bother me back then, missing something good or thinking I might would drive me crazy.
Here is the junk from just one hunt in a real trashy park on my very first hunt with a large DD coil I just purchased for my Vaq to use in my mineralized soil.
Notice the amount of pop tops, that is why using concentric coils in sites like this makes sense to me, these are usually a non issue using that type of coil.

As the years went on I got sick of digging trash, my patience, energy and time available to hunt all shrunk so I had to figure out better ways to use my tools and manage my time more wisely using any of my detectors.
I learned my F2 behavior well enough to settle into certain strict rules for digging, I rarely dug anything with more than a 3 number jump and got good enough at that thumbing technique using my Tesoros that eventually I went full bore into what I call my high percentage method, a method where I cut out digging about 80% or more of the trash I used to dig.
Surprisingly, after this I found higher volumes of good targets than I ever did before than when I dug way more holes and I was way more rested doing it this way.
As a matter of fact my good targets dug volumes soared in both coins and jewelry using both brands.
Learning my tools and target behavior as well as I did over time was the real reason for this, I don't expect a newbie to have the same success from the get-go but I believe anyone can learn to do it this way if they choose and many have.
Here is a thread that talks about it.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...r-27-s-method-thumbing-disc-knob-up-down.html

I am not saying you should do it this way or that anyone should either, I am saying this is how I choose to do it to spend my energy reserves wisely keep my sanity and enjoy this hobby the most.
Can I miss some good targets using this high percentage method, the numbers say I sure can...does the fact that I might miss something here or there bother me...not in the slightest, not any more.
I hunt my sites more than once so I figure what I don't find one day I will find another, and the biggest reason I continue to do it this way is my track record for finding the good stuff, even in sites heavily infested with iron or trash was and still is shockingly great.
As I practiced and got better and better I dug less and less trash as my skills and confidence grew.
I still use a slightly modified similar method when using my much more powerful F70 and every time I pull out one of my Tesoros and hunt I do the up and back down thumbing thing and at this point I just won't, can't do it any other way.
Even checking and thumbing over every single target I come across this is a very fast and efficient process for me, my speed grew over time.
I still dig mostly the higher percentage good, solid stable non noisy targets I come across and leave the rest in the dirt and it all still seems to work for me.
This whole hobby us a numbers game for me anyway, the numbers just add up and work for me using this method.

There is a ton of information in that one Tesoro tone, even more as you learn target behavior by manipulating that coil and thumbing that knob over targets.
All part of the language you learn using Tesoros and the more you learn the less overwhelming it all is.
In time it all becomes effortless and makes complete sense.

Please try this thumbing method some time if you would like to, you might like it.

 

[68kaiser]

I thumb the discrimination on every target. And guess what it is before I dig it.. Am getting good at it I must say. I just can't walk away from all the targets. I got to know what it is if it has a good sound to it. I do dig trash but also many coins. The one thing that kills me is the pull tabs. Haven't got them figured out, to many shapes to them and the ones without the beaver tail get me. I get board if I don't dig a target after a few minutes I detect to find thing not swing a coil all day. Like I said I like to get the trash out of the way and let the v go deep.