Artemis Site-You Go Girl

[sdcfia]

This is an interesting story. Thanks SDC. Just to make sure I have it straight. A natural rock formation was modified to show the pupils and irises of two eyes. A petroglyph was carved on this formation, maybe to show there was information to look for. Then the ownership petroglyph was used to show the closed entrance on top with the heart rock by it. Is the outlined cross the ownership mark. You' written about that mark before and, from what I remember, it has been used for a long time. Seeing as how the natural formation was already there, there must have been something of value hidden away in the cavern to go to the trouble of creating the petroglyphs. Also, unless it was a crazy coincidence that there were mines by the formation, something must have been transported along the trail. Maybe a temporary hiding place. Any idea about the owners? Thanks again.

Yeah, dog, that's pretty much the gist of the story as I understand it. As things were told to me, that back-filled hole under the heart-shaped rock allegedly connects to a "huge" cavern and the mine is somewhere inside the cavern. Yes, you probably can't rule out the possibility that it may not be an actual mine, but a cache site instead. The circumstantial evidence here is consistent with other similar stuff found in the area - outlined cross carvings, apparent old workings. The most recent owners, if you accept the legends surrounding the "mark of possession", would allegedly have been 16th century Europeans. All of this is speculation on my part, based on info provided by better-informed folks and by other stuff I've found independently. Nothing is proven.

 

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[mdog]

Yeah, dog, that's pretty much the gist of the story as I understand it. As things were told to me, that back-filled hole under the heart-shaped rock allegedly connects to a "huge" cavern and the mine is somewhere inside the cavern. Yes, you probably can't rule out the possibility that it may not be an actual mine, but a cache site instead. The circumstantial evidence here is consistent with other similar stuff found in the area - outlined cross carvings, apparent old workings. The most recent owners, if you accept the legends surrounding the "mark of possession", would allegedly have been 16th century Europeans. All of this is speculation on my part, based on info provided by better-informed folks and by other stuff I've found independently. Nothing is proven.

That was a great story, SDC. Thank you very much.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing it. This kind of stuff keeps me motivated,and generates new thoughts.

 

[Chadeaux]

Yeah, I see the face ... but what struck me more than that is the similarity to Nwahr's avatar.

Question: What is the positional relationship between the cat tracks and this rock?

Thanks.

 

[weekender]

Yeah, I see the face ... but what struck me more than that is the similarity to Nwahr's avatar.

Question: What is the positional relationship between the cat tracks and this rock?

Thanks.

I missed it the first time, but that sure is a nice shadow bat.
-Weekender

 

[weekender]

Yeah, I see the face ... but what struck me more than that is the similarity to Nwahr's avatar.

Question: What is the positional relationship between the cat tracks and this rock?

Thanks.

I missed it the first time, but that sure is a nice shadow bat.
-Weekender

 

[sdcfia]

Yeah, I see the face ... but what struck me more than that is the similarity to Nwahr's avatar.

Question: What is the positional relationship between the cat tracks and this rock?

Thanks.

Those cat tracks are maybe a hundred yards westerly from the face. This is a guess from memory, as I didn't sketch a site plan and it's a big site with many, many petroglyphs. Also, it's been maybe ten years since I've been there. The track carvings are very nice, and there is definitely a major cat theme in a the vicinity - lots more cat stuff.

Also, I didn't notice it when I was there, but if you look at the face photo, it sorta looks like a second face looking the other direction (eye, nose and jaw looking to the left). Like a Janus.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Yes, the eyes are natural depressions in the rock face. I was told that the yellow circles are areas where the rocks were worked long ago to show the "pupils" and "irises" of the eyes. I didn't notice this when I took the photo, and I haven't been back since then to check it out. It's been on my list of things to do for years now. That list seems to keep growing.

View attachment 1502187

I hope you make it back there, and give us a update. Id even like to see a photo of the eyes from the other side across the canyon. Of course i appreciate what i already got for free. Which is a lot.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Wow, dog tth, I guess you nailed it. I overlaid Orion's Belt stars on the three peaks and was surprised at the results. Pretty close match, eh? As usual, strangeness abounds in the Land of Enchantment.

View attachment 1501257

This mapping stuff is all way over my head, but thought i would throw a ideal out there. Hey at least there's a Artemis bow. View attachment 1503898

 

[sdcfia]

This mapping stuff is all way over my head, but thought i would throw a ideal out there. Hey at least there's a Artemis bow.

I don't see a correlation. However, the Tres Hermanas-Orion's Belt correlation you suggested continues to amaze me. Yes, one could say it's merely a coincidence, but as I mentioned earlier, legend has it that earlier visitors from the south identified the Tres Hermanas with the three Giza pyramids. Visually (two dimensional), there's a good resemblance, yes, and a decent landmark, but the fact that the peaks' three dimensional layout also matches the pyramids is, well ... intriguing. That, plus other things I've heard about the Cookes Range is an incentive to plunge back into treasure hunting. Maybe some day.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

I don't see a correlation. However, the Tres Hermanas-Orion's Belt correlation you suggested continues to amaze me. Yes, one could say it's merely a coincidence, but as I mentioned earlier, legend has it that earlier visitors from the south identified the Tres Hermanas with the three Giza pyramids. Visually (two dimensional), there's a good resemblance, yes, and a decent landmark, but the fact that the peaks' three dimensional layout also matches the pyramids is, well ... intriguing. That, plus other things I've heard about the Cookes Range is an incentive to plunge back into treasure hunting. Maybe some day.

Yes, do it SDC. There is stuff here, that is on a far more grander scale than a hole with treasure. What that is, i have no i deal. But it keeps a person active on that level.

 

[sdcfia]

More on our little buddy Cuco and his age. Here's a Mimbres bowl that dates to ca 1100 CE.

 

[nmth]

More on our little buddy Cuco and his age. Here's a Mimbres bowl that dates to ca 1100 CE.

View attachment 1505536

Very cool. Been reading up on other old people. Images with hands down are often bad or untrustworthy. Hands up is good. No kill hole in the pot? This Cuco has wavy water lines and same shaped eyes. Maybe the pot Cucos are minions? No Lovelock type stuff in our region, right?

 

[sdcfia]

Very cool. Been reading up on other old people. Images with hands down are often bad or untrustworthy. Hands up is good. No kill hole in the pot? This Cuco has wavy water lines and same shaped eyes. Maybe the pot Cucos are minions? No Lovelock type stuff in our region, right?

It's hard to say with any certainty what the artists' reasoning and motivation was for the petroglyphs, pottery images, et al. We can speculate all sorts of things, but all we know for sure is that the image dates back at least 800-900 years to a time we don't really know much about. We can't see the bottom of the bowl in this photo, so it's uncertain if there is a kill hole. Giant humans? I haven't heard any local legends, but I have seen a giant living bird in the Cookes Range.

 

[nmth]

It's hard to say with any certainty what the artists' reasoning and motivation was for the petroglyphs, pottery images, et al. We can speculate all sorts of things, but all we know for sure is that the image dates back at least 800-900 years to a time we don't really know much about. We can't see the bottom of the bowl in this photo, so it's uncertain if there is a kill hole. Giant humans? I haven't heard any local legends, but I have seen a giant living bird in the Cookes Range.

Your aforementioned thunderbird: VERY EXCITING. All I can claim is a melanistic bobcat somewhere south of Socorro and a vociferous mystery critter that left no tracks or sign up by Mogollon. Oh, and a grey (red) wolf in the Caballos, before they released any. And maybe a few smaller things.

In the case of the "hands up, hands down" I mentioned: this meaning came from tribal members.

I have heard only of the evil small people in NM. The large entities that crop up a lot were usually solitary stone people. Nistcre. Sometimes enemies, sometimes allies against the small ones or Coyote.

This came up when I googled. It's not where I first learned of this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...KHZqGBT0Q6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=nistcre&f=false

Also, interesting are symbological themes: https://www.ted.com/talks/genevieve...ymbols_found_in_ancient_caves_all_over_europe

Limited shapes to re-use? Like every culture uses a circle for something.

A foundational cultural phenomena?

A fundamental proclivity of the human mind, in some mechanical sense?

Kowinkeey-dink?

 

[sdcfia]

Your aforementioned thunderbird: VERY EXCITING. All I can claim is a melanistic bobcat somewhere south of Socorro and a vociferous mystery critter that left no tracks or sign up by Mogollon. Oh, and a grey (red) wolf in the Caballos, before they released any. And maybe a few smaller things.

In the case of the "hands up, hands down" I mentioned: this meaning came from tribal members.

I have heard only of the evil small people in NM. The large entities that crop up a lot were usually solitary stone people. Nistcre. Sometimes enemies, sometimes allies against the small ones or Coyote.

This came up when I googled. It's not where I first learned of this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...KHZqGBT0Q6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=nistcre&f=false

Also, interesting are symbological themes: https://www.ted.com/talks/genevieve...ymbols_found_in_ancient_caves_all_over_europe

Limited shapes to re-use? Like every culture uses a circle for something.

A foundational cultural phenomena?

A fundamental proclivity of the human mind, in some mechanical sense?

Kowinkeey-dink?

There's a big difference between things like, say, the Nevada's Lovelock Cave and Utah's Johnny Brewer Caves and other sites' red-haired giants and those of Native American mythology as we know it, IMO. The "modern" cave discoveries, and other anomalies, even though controversial in their own rights, do represent alleged physical proof of "crypto humanity", whereas the Native lore is generally a much more symbolic language, requiring a lot of speculation on the reader's part to try to get back to the stories' origins and what the tellers are actually trying to say. With possibly a few exceptions, I don't put a lot of faith in today's "tribal members" for explanations of their elders' symbology. Same goes for us white guys' understanding of our ancient campfire stories.

Cryptozoology? Well, I've had my experiences and my long-time exploration buddy has had his too. We witnessed one together, which makes it easy for me to accept his others, which are good ones. So, I can tell you that, yes, there are unacknowledged things out there - out of sight, out of mind.

 

[mdog]

More on our little buddy Cuco and his age. Here's a Mimbres bowl that dates to ca 1100 CE.

View attachment 1505536

Thanks, SDC. Is this a picture you've recently found? I've seen your Cuco picture several times, but I don't remember seeing this bowl. The waves could indicate that this might represent some type of water spirit. Maybe a relative of Tlaloc. Is the bowl and your Cuco petroglyph the only two examples of this image that you've seen.

 

[mdog]

I've been trying to figure this one out for years. It isn't carved, but I can't figure out how it was made.

View attachment 1498820

I haven't been able to figure out the cross either. Why the cross? There could be an explanation for the cross. Here are two pictures of fanged petroglyphs, one is mine and the other is of a fanged water spirit at Horsethief Butte in Washington state.





I rotated the second picture to make it easier to compare.

Notice the cross in each petroglyph is up and to the left of the fanged image. You can also see that the cross in the second photo is in a different position than the cross in the first photo.

Here's a link that shows a link between the rain god, Tlaloc, and the Southern Cross constellation. The last paragraph on page 21.

https://books.google.com/books?id=r...epage&q=tlaloc and the southern cross&f=false

Here's another link that shows how to tell the date and time by watching the position of the Southern cross.

https://maas.museum/observations/2010/08/04/using-the-southern-cross-to-find-the-date-or-the-time/

Here is a chart showing the start of the rainy season in Iowa and another showing Washington state's.

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/iowa/united-states/3185

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/washington/united-states/3217

Now compare the positions of the crosses to the beginning of the rainy seasons in both states.

http://columbiariverimages.com/Regions/Places/horsethief_butte_petroglyphs.html

 

[mdog]

If the crosses on the petroglyphs are supposed to represent the Southern Cross constellation, maybe the position of the cross shows when to anticipate the beginning of the rainy season. Also, the Southern Cross can't be seen from the northern hemisphere until you get south of the 25th degree northern latitude. The ancient civilizations from around Mexico City are south of the 25th degree latitude so the petroglyphs located far to the north of that latitude, could indicate some contact with the Mexican civilizations. IF the crosses represent the Southern Cross.

I'd like some comments and maybe somebody has seen crosses by the fanged guy petroglyphs.

 

[sdcfia]

Thanks, SDC. Is this a picture you've recently found? I've seen your Cuco picture several times, but I don't remember seeing this bowl. The waves could indicate that this might represent some type of water spirit. Maybe a relative of Tlaloc. Is the bowl and your Cuco petroglyph the only two examples of this image that you've seen.

Yes, dog - the petroglyph and the bowl are the only two images of this character that I'm aware of.