ATP vs Etrac: So much controversy but is it really saying anything useful?

[TrpnBils]

I'm upgrading from my Fisher F5 and have had both the ATPro and the e-trac in mind. I've been browsing this and another forum just searching "etrac" and half the threads are people arguing about which of these two detectors is best. I read the threads, but I'm left with a feeling of "did anybody actually prove a point here?"

Here's what I've come to understand through these threads:

1. Most people writing reviews saying "This one is better" don't own both and many haven't even used the one they're downplaying
2. Many people who like their e-trac have been MDing for awhile and say that ATP is a fad or is all hype
3. Many people who like their ATP say the e-trac is so expensive only because it's a Minelab, not because of its quality
4. There are about as many threads showing people "upgrading" from the ATP to the e-trac as there are people "upgrading" from the e-trac to the ATP.
e-trac

- Slower machine
- "known" for finding deep silver
- steep learning curve
- not waterproof (not a major concern for me)

ATP

- Faster machine
- "Pro" mode is supposed to be much better and comparable to the e-trac
- cheaper
- more user-friendly

My main detecting interests are old coins and, to an extent, relics. I get excited when I find CW bullets and buttons, but that's about it. If I started finding older coins and never found a CW relic again, I'd be fine with that. My main reason for replacing the F5 is because I don't feel like I'm getting the depth I need for the older coins. Having said that, maybe I'm just not looking in the right spots (although I can't for the life of me figure out how, considering some of my locations) because I just found an IH penny last weekend at like 3"...which any detector should have been able to find. I have never found silver (or gold, aside from one ring), and enjoy the large coppers too. I hunt mostly yards, fields, woods, schools, and parks....no beaches, no crazy trashy areas most of the time.

Here are my questions. I am specifically interested in hearing from people with decent amounts of experience with both:

1. In average soil conditions, will one or the other (assuming "Pro" mode for the ATP) significantly outperform the other in depth?
2. Does one hold significant advantage over the other for silver (I know the Minelab has the reputation, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ATP doesn't have the ability)?
3. I keep reading about people being pissed off at their e-trac for the first 6 months because it's got such a steep learning curve. Is it really that bad if it's not your first detector and you've been doing it for a few years with another model?
4. Does the ATP sort through iron the way the e-trac is supposed to be able to do with its double-number ID system?
5. If you have both, is the e-trac worth the extra money?
6. Do they both have pretty much the same capabilities with just different brand names on them?

One thing I KNOW I'm a little biased on is this... My first detector was an Ace 250. Having looked at videos with the ATP, the similarities in sound and display between it and the 250 kind of make me think that the ATP is just a 250 on steroids. I thought the 250 looked and felt cheaply made and the ATP looks pretty much the same. I KNOW that's not a legitimate way of judging a detector I've never used, but I'm at least aware of this unfounded bias. Because of it, I WANT to like the e-trac, but I'm wondering if I can get pretty much the same kind of positive results with less money spent by getting the ATP....but I also find myself wondering if I'm going to get too frustrated with an e-trac and be done with it by the end of summer wishing I would have bought the ATP.

 

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[fella]

Ok, I weigh in on the subject & of course I'll get crucified by "the other side"!

The ATP is a great machine period! Performs as well as anything costing twice as much. It'll find deep silver. Lots of people have em, lots of people do well with em!

The E-Trac is a great machine period! Performs "better" than machines costing half/one third as much. It'll find deep silver. Lots of people have em, lots of people do well with em!

I had the E-Trac (personally programed by Andy Sabisch), I didn't like it at all. Didn't like the weight and I wasn't going to strap myself into a harness. Also hated the fluty tones and never meshed with em. I never really took the time to fully learn the ET & I admit that but it just wasn't for me.

I didn't care for my ATP at first either. The build quality wasn't what I was use to and for being only 3ish lbs , it felt really unbalanced. Not as bad as the ET but bad enough. The plug access for both the coil & headphones were/are a cruel joke and the machine just wasn't showing me any depth.
Once I switched to the 5x8 coil (it was the ATP's last chance before I traded it off) the machine became something completely different. Ok, the plug design didn't change but the weight/balance greatly improved and it became very easy to swing. It was even finding deep coins with good tone & VDI. As good as any other machine I had used to that point. I NEVER have the feeling of "wonder if I'm missing anything". I'm confident in my machine w/5x8 coil to 8-9" range and I never dug coins with any of my other machines any deeper. EX Deus w/13" coil - 9", E-Trac - 9", Vx3 & MXT Pro - 9" even my CZ-3D hasn't ID'd a coin any deeper. I've talked to a few members of the local detecting club in my area and it seems 9" is max anyone is digging any coins around here.
Some of the other great things about the ATP are it's Iron Audio and its tone roll. If you're digging bottle caps with the ATP, it's on you, not the machine!
It's not all roses on the ATP however, can slaw and many style pull tabs sound off really smooth on it. I dig a lot of that stuff but almost never dig caps!

I have little doubt that the E-Trac is the deeper of the two with like size coils on higher conductive targets, but how much?

If you have a club and/or a detector shop in your area, ask around. See what people are using and what's successful around you.

 

[Iron Patch]

I believe I had the same questions about 13 years ago! Was an Explorer XS really that much better than my GTI 1500? Right out of the box, no it wasn't, a couple months in still probably not, but was showing me signs it had potential. Years in, most definitely better! The XS is really no different than an SE, and an SE no different than an E-trac, at least in the ways that count. The AT-Pro I'm guessing you are right that it's probably something like a 250 on steroids, and I'm sure not light years away from a GTI.... which begs to ask the question.... If the AT-Pro is something so great why is the GTI 1500, a now fairly old detector, still more expensive? A Garrett is still a Garrett and if they had come up with some great technology you would not see their mid. line priced unit totally kicking the a$$ of what was their high end... they would have incorporated that better technology into a high end line, and dumbed it down, just like Minelab did with the Safari. The reason technology counts is because that's what this is all about. When you know a high end Minelab it's just a better all-around detector at finding the good stuff and leaving the bad behind. Garrett like any other company is all about selling detectors and their strategy is to keep the prices down, give you what seems to be a lot for your money, and count on user hype and people making comparisons to an E-trac, which in my opinion is ridiculous. Not because an At-pro sucks, and not because it won't see most targets an E-trac will, it's because a lot of extra money in a detector only accounts for a little, and that little is really what we're debating here... and for that little there is no comparison. (the little is that better technology - but you still have to know how to use it)

 

[empty_pockets]

.............

 

[TrpnBils]

Ok, I weigh in on the subject & of course I'll get crucified by "the other side"!

The ATP is a great machine period! Performs as well as anything costing twice as much. It'll find deep silver. Lots of people have em, lots of people do well with em!

The E-Trac is a great machine period! Performs "better" than machines costing half/one third as much. It'll find deep silver. Lots of people have em, lots of people do well with em!

I had the E-Trac (personally programed by Andy Sabisch), I didn't like it at all. Didn't like the weight and I wasn't going to strap myself into a harness. Also hated the fluty tones and never meshed with em. I never really took the time to fully learn the ET & I admit that but it just wasn't for me.

I didn't care for my ATP at first either. The build quality wasn't what I was use to and for being only 3ish lbs , it felt really unbalanced. Not as bad as the ET but bad enough. The plug access for both the coil & headphones were/are a cruel joke and the machine just wasn't showing me any depth.
Once I switched to the 5x8 coil (it was the ATP's last chance before I traded it off) the machine became something completely different. Ok, the plug design didn't change but the weight/balance greatly improved and it became very easy to swing. It was even finding deep coins with good tone & VDI. As good as any other machine I had used to that point. I NEVER have the feeling of "wonder if I'm missing anything". I'm confident in my machine w/5x8 coil to 8-9" range and I never dug coins with any of my other machines any deeper. EX Deus w/13" coil - 9", E-Trac - 9", Vx3 & MXT Pro - 9" even my CZ-3D hasn't ID'd a coin any deeper. I've talked to a few members of the local detecting club in my area and it seems 9" is max anyone is digging any coins around here.
Some of the other great things about the ATP are it's Iron Audio and its tone roll. If you're digging bottle caps with the ATP, it's on you, not the machine!
It's not all roses on the ATP however, can slaw and many style pull tabs sound off really smooth on it. I dig a lot of that stuff but almost never dig caps!

I have little doubt that the E-Trac is the deeper of the two with like size coils on higher conductive targets, but how much?

If you have a club and/or a detector shop in your area, ask around. See what people are using and what's successful around you.

I have been talking with Keith at Fort Bedford Metal Detectors about this for a little while now and he's made some valid points as well. We're going to get together over the next month so I can test out his Etrac and I think he's going to drop off Andy's book for me to look at sometime this week. Thanks for the reply!

 

[TrpnBils]

Not because an At-pro sucks, and not because it won't see most targets an E-trac will, it's because a lot of extra money in a detector only accounts for a little, and that little is really what we're debating here... and for that little there is no comparison. (the little is that better technology - but you still have to know how to use it)

I've read this over like a dozen times now and what I think you mean keeps changing... can you clarify?

 

[gunsil]

I have an ATP and a Safari which has the same FBS as the Etrac, and I hunt with a couple of guys, one with the ATP, the other with an Etrac. None of us consitantly out hunt the others searching colonial sites or parks and schools. You still have to get your coil over a good target and luck plays an enormous hand in that. The Minelabs do have a greater learning curve it seems to me, and experience rules supreme. I hunted today with a guy with a BH, and a guy who used my ATP for the first time, and I used my Safari. The guy with my ATP found one wheatie , a clad dime and a couple of memorials, the BH guy found two pennies, I found three dimes (clad) and seven memorials. The other two guys have about two years at hunting and I have 44 years at it. Did my Safari out hunt them or did I?? I believe it was the latter.

 

[bigfoot1]

I believe the two most important factors of choosing an upgrade are;
1)how does it feel in my hand?
2)does the sound it makes bother me

have to say it...they are both great detectors in the hands of a skilled operator...heck your f5 is a great machine too.The garrett will be a slam dunk to learn...the etrac aint that tough either.I doubt your gonna leave much behind with either.You may not really notice an increase in your find rate either,the f5 is pretty solid.

when in doubt rent or borrow...go with the one that fits your hand and ear.
cheers

 

[MrMikeJackie]

I'm still not sold on the whole multi freq mumbo jumbo for dirt hunting. I still believe a single freq machine punches deeper in the dirt. I believe multi freq is only needed for the wet sand and for that only 2 freq are needed. A low freq to punch through the salt and a mid or high freq for the coins/gold. I have hunted along side many top end machines and my single freq(15kz) whites m6 with a concentric coil always goes deeper than the best of them in the dirt. I feel multi freq is a selling point and nothing else. Believe it or not all those freq actually battle each other to see which one comes out on top, for what? All you need is one freq that does it all. 13, 14, 15. Granted the lower you go the better on coins, the higher you go the better on gold but why not have the best of both and go with a mid freq that does it all. I'm no garrett fan but I would go with the at pro.

 

[lookindown]

AT pro is an Ace 250 on steroids in standard mode but in pro mode its a whole new animal.

 

[dustytrails123]

AT pro is an Ace 250 on steroids in standard mode but in pro mode its a whole new animal.

Then it turns into the ace 350 ?

 

[lookindown]

Then it turns into the ace 350 ?

You've got one, you figure it out.

 

[Iron Patch]

I've read this over like a dozen times now and what I think you mean keeps changing... can you clarify?

For me that little extra is probably the more accurate audio ID at extra depth. That prevents me from digging much iron, which saves me time, which means I dig more good stuff and have a better shot at a keeper. Something else I noticed right away too was how much better a Minelab seen targets on edge, especially coins. Garretts, at least the GTI I had would often mimic junk giving you a broken signal. I did great with my Garrett but as I said there's a lot I just couldn't be sure of to leave behind, so would dig too much iron. The Ace 250 I found to be the same way, and is the At-Pro different, I doubt it. Do people who don't know an Explorer well dig a lot of iron, or if they're in a more modern spot that's tough to hunt... for sure. Would I dig less iron if I had 13 years on an At -Pro compared to just a couple years, probably, but there's only so good a user can get and then it's about the technology.... sort of the reverse saying about it being the user, but both are true. Anyway, just more rambling and at the end of the day that's just how I see it, and believe me any AT -pro would be finding as much as I have on my recent hunts! In fact, I think I'm hunting with someone all weekend who has one. Maybe I'll let him swing over my deep or masked, or both, targets and see what he says.

 

[Iron Patch]

I'm still not sold on the whole multi freq mumbo jumbo for dirt hunting. I still believe a single freq machine punches deeper in the dirt. I believe multi freq is only needed for the wet sand and for that only 2 freq are needed. A low freq to punch through the salt and a mid or high freq for the coins/gold. I have hunted along side many top end machines and my single freq(15kz) whites m6 with a concentric coil always goes deeper than the best of them in the dirt. I feel multi freq is a selling point and nothing else. Believe it or not all those freq actually battle each other to see which one comes out on top, for what? All you need is one freq that does it all. 13, 14, 15. Granted the lower you go the better on coins, the higher you go the better on gold but why not have the best of both and go with a mid freq that does it all. I'm no garrett fan but I would go with the at pro.

Single freq. vs multi. freq also depends greatly on which detector, or you'd be saying an Ace 250 is as deep or deeper as an E-trac. For me it's more about the better disc., than the depth, but I probably see it that way because the Explorer just happens to be a deep detector. It's obviously the combination of both why I like it so much.

No doubt multi. freq. is used as hype with the adds showing what's just a DD coil vs Concentric, but at the end of the day these detectors (Minelab for me) have the best guts of anything I've used for my kind of hunting so it never really matters what anyone says, then or now. And I don't even care about the debate, I just replied here to kill time before going detecting. Forum posts mean very little and the only way to find out what works for you and what doesn't is to try the things, and give them a good shot.

 

[gunsil]

I'm still not sold on the whole multi freq mumbo jumbo for dirt hunting. I still believe a single freq machine punches deeper in the dirt. I believe multi freq is only needed for the wet sand and for that only 2 freq are needed. A low freq to punch through the salt and a mid or high freq for the coins/gold. I have hunted along side many top end machines and my single freq(15kz) whites m6 with a concentric coil always goes deeper than the best of them in the dirt. I feel multi freq is a selling point and nothing else. Believe it or not all those freq actually battle each other to see which one comes out on top, for what? All you need is one freq that does it all. 13, 14, 15. Granted the lower you go the better on coins, the higher you go the better on gold but why not have the best of both and go with a mid freq that does it all. I'm no garrett fan but I would go with the at pro.

Perhaps out on the Island where you are you see no use for multi frequency, but over here in the lower Hudson valley there are a lot of areas with terrific iron minerlization and single frequency machines cannot handle the ground at all. Hunt up in the Ramapo mountains areas and a single freq machine will go nuts with all the natural iron in the ground. Same with the red clay areas in VA and GA, multi-freq machines do way better in hot soil.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

Perhaps out on the Island where you are you see no use for multi frequency, but over here in the lower Hudson valley there are a lot of areas with terrific iron minerlization and single frequency machines cannot handle the ground at all. Hunt up in the Ramapo mountains areas and a single freq machine will go nuts with all the natural iron in the ground. Same with the red clay areas in VA and GA, multi-freq machines do way better in hot soil.

Not sure if most people understand "multi frequency" especially minelabs fbs technology and it's 99 frequencies. In the end only 2 frequencies are "picked" as being the "best" ones. Ok? Furthermore when I'm upstate hunting on my property near oneonta ny I don't have any problems with my m6, sensitivity cranked to the max. I guess it boils down to whatever someone is comfortable with. If multifrequency works for you then more power to ya! GL HH