AZ Unknown Mines

[chlsbrns]

Since verifying that the Waltz map is bogus and nothing more than a money maker for JULIA THOMAS SCHAFFER I've been looking in the correct area for unknown mines. Julia Thomas, Hermann Petrasch and Rhinehart Petrasch, did not travel toward the precipitous west face of Superstition Mountain on August 11, 1892. They in fact traveled in a different direction.

I've seen over 60 maps to lost/unknown mines/treasure in AZ including numerous Lost Dutchman Mines. I'm wondering if one on the multitude of UNKNOWN MINES listed in the PDF below are any of the lost mines or Lost Dutchman Mines. Not that anyone could compare ores as there are not samples and it's not possible to compare ores by sight alone.

I'm also checking in the culture geology and history and have found some great info!

It's starting to become apparent that there isn't a LDM that Waltz was a con man, theif, murderer, ect.

 

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[chlsbrns]

...

 

[roadrunner]

What do the pdf's do or what are they of.
They appear to be an index of some kind but what do they belong to?

 

[Terry Soloman]

I still believe the "Lost Dutchman's" gold came from the Bradshaw Mountains.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Terry mi buddy drink yer coffee He packed it up from Mexico. Only a two week trip each way, . but he avoided paying any taxes on if, course he left his mine for me to play with whenever i wasn't busy at Tayopa.,

And just how are you my buddy ? Long time.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[chlsbrns]

What do the pdf's do or what are they of.
They appear to be an index of some kind but what do they belong to?

They link to reports and coordinates.

 

[chlsbrns]

I still believe the "Lost Dutchman's" gold came from the Bradshaw Mountains.

I'm thinking the same. Lets face it Waltz lead people in circles, lied, killed, mislead and more. Waltz surely robbed, killed & stole to get some/most of the gold that he had. He surely stole/killed/robbed while heading in that direction.

It was Julia Thomas who was selling bogus maps for $$$. I know that she did not take the route that is in the never ending versions of the story. Everyone's been looking in the wrong place for over 100 years.

The biggest problem is that if there is a mine in a Federal Wilderness area there isn't a chance that the ground could be mined.

 

[roadrunner]

The first one is just mine names, no links to anything.
And the last 2 are just title pages, no links, or content.
Unless I am missing some thing.

 

[chlsbrns]

The first one is just mine names, no links to anything.
And the last 2 are just title pages, no links, or content.
Unless I am missing some thing.

They are PDF's the links aren't working.

 

[chlsbrns]

The 1881 mining culture info shows there were a number of very rich mines & numerous large veins as do the mining journals of the same time period.

 

[chlsbrns]

Chis-burns

Don't know about Waltz or Julia being so crooked. But your statements are plain stupid.
The feds swap land all the time as they do here in oil country' if its in the best interest they'll swap and quite speedy a bout it,

Wrmickel1

Tonto National Forest - Special Places (applies to all Federal Wildlife Properties)

 

[Somero]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Arizona sub-forum, just saying.

 

[Oroblanco]

wrmickel1 is 100% right. Here is a direct extract:

"In unique circumstances lands not identified in
the adjustment plan will be considered for
the adjustment plan will be considered for
exchange. "

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_034082.pdf

Chlsbrns clearly does not want anyone looking for the LDM in the Superstitions Wilderness, but in fact if you should find the Lost Dutchman or any rich precious metals mine, there are legal routes to get possession of it, and be able to work it.

 

[chlsbrns]

wrmickel1 is 100% right. Here is a direct extract:


http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_034082.pdf

Chlsbrns clearly does not want anyone looking for the LDM in the Superstitions Wilderness, but in fact if you should find the Lost Dutchman or any rich precious metals mine, there are legal routes to get possession of it, and be able to work it.

I'll reply then can we get back on topic?

Unlike oroblancos link this link can be clicked: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_034082.pdf

Did you read it or just post a link? That's ok, don't reply. You obviously didn't read it or wanted to hide relevant facts.

Here are direct quotes: Formal appraisal documents are completed for all tracts included in the exchange. Exchanges are on a "value for value" basis, not an "acre for acre-" basis.

All FS land exchanges are completed on an equal value basis. If one parcel is of slightly higher value, the difference can be made up in cash (not to exceed 25% of the value of the Federal land).

It is apparent that you would have to own land of equal value or pay the difference. So pay for the expenses, give up land and then pay for the gold in order to pay the expense to get the gold?

Don't put words in my mouth! I don't care if another million people search the Superstitions for mines or for frying pans with holes in them.

Being that it's been verified with actual documentation that it would not be feasible or you will never be allowed to mine of Federal Wilderness can we get back on topic?

 

[Springfield]

Wilderness.net - 1964 Wilderness Act

Wilderness Act of 1964, Sec. 4 (d)(3):
" ... Subject to valid rights then existing, effective January 1, 1984, the minerals in lands designated by this Act as wilderness areas are withdrawn from all forms of appropriation under the mining laws and from disposition under all laws pertaining to mineral leasing and all amendments thereto."

No mining in a Wilderness Area unless legal mining claims existed at the time of enactment (1984). The land swap procedure is for non-wilderness NFS land, unless 'closed for mineral entry'.

 

[chlsbrns]

Waltz departed California in 1863, with the Peeples-Weaver Party or a similar group of prospectors headed for the Bradshaw Mountains of Arizona Territory. Waltz was one of the earliest pioneer prospectors in the Bradshaw Mountain area. Waltz's name appears on the Gross Claim which was filed in Prescott, Arizona Territory on September 21, 1863. His name also appears on a special territorial census taken in 1864. On this census Waltz is listed as a miner, 54 years of age, and a native of Germany. Waltz's name also appeared on a petition to territorial governor John N. Goodwin soliciting a militia to control the predatory raids of hostile Indians in the Bradshaw Mountains. Jacob Waltz's name also appeared on the Big Rebel and the General Grant claims in the Bradshaw Mountains.

It was taught in Arizona History when I was in high school, right here in Prescott, that the Lost Dutchman's mine was a story that was made up to cover up the theft of gold from the Vulture Mine. And that story is more believable than the story of the "mystery" mine that has caused so much stir in people.

I'm related to the lost Dutchman... Jacob was a great uncle according to our family history book. He never left a map, so I don't think he wanted ANYONE to know its location if it even existed. Bet it's an interesting book though....

The mine never existed in the first place. It was simply a ruse to cover up his embezzling from the mine where he was employed at the time.

But go ahead, and have fun storming the castle!

Book posits Lost Dutchman Mine is located near Prescott - The Prescott Daily Courier - Prescott, Arizona

 

[Loke]

...
On this census Waltz is listed as a miner, 54 years of age, and a native of Germany
...

So now he is German? Your previous claim was that he (like you) were Dutch (or of Dutch origin).
Further, you claim he had a son with his indian squaw, next Julie Thomas is the mother of his son ....
So what is it?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Charlie brown is in preskit?
frightening.

 

[chlsbrns]

So now he is German? Your previous claim was that he (like you) were Dutch (or of Dutch origin).
Further, you claim he had a son with his indian squaw, next Julie Thomas is the mother of his son ....
So what is it?

You tell me if he was Dutch or German. I never said that I was Dutch because I'm not Dutch. The text of the above post are quotes from articles not necessarily my thoughts or findings.

I suspected that Julia was the Mother of his child but she is not.

 

[sgtfda]

What is a unknown mine? A deposit yet to be discovered?