Bahamian salvage vessel

[ScubaFinder]

I applaud bahamamike for his endeavors.

I couldn't agree more...it is refreshing to see an archaeologist in Michael's position who still thinks with a level head. So much more can be accomplished when we work together, and it doesn't have to come at the expense of good archaeology, nor does it have to preclude the sale of redundant artifacts like coins.

Sounds to me like the Bahamas (under Mike's direction) are about to show what is possible with a little cooperation and teamwork. If you provide the proper over-sight and guidance, and hold salvage companies responsible for their actions, there is no reason why it can't work perfectly for everyone involved.

 

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Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Alexandre]

Not all archaeologist who work with TH produce shoddy work and cut corners. Some do, but not all. But your stance here, has shown what is my biggest problem with most academic archaeologists. I am curious what my reception will be at the next regional meetings for UCH in the Caribbean.

Give examples, Mike, names and reports.

 

[Alexandre]

The first European residents of Florida were victims of a shipwreck...how can you say that the history and patrimony of that ship belongs solely to its country of origin?

Jason

Jason, I didn't said that. Look at Australia and Namibia: they both have a Portuguese shipwreck and we are even helping them study those.

Now, we abhor what the Mozambicans are doing and what the Cape Verdeans have done.

Now, ask yourself this: what's the difference between Namibia, Australia, Cape Verde and Mozambique?

 

[Alexandre]

Some do, but not all. But your stance here, has shown what is my biggest problem with most academic archaeologists. I am curious what my reception will be at the next regional meetings for UCH in the Caribbean.

Mike, if a mixed team of archaeologists and salvors would appear in Egypt, or in Peru, or in Italy, or in Greece, dig the place up looking only for tombs with gold in it, recover the gold, and sell it for a profit... how would you think those archaeologists would be welcomed at SHA or WAC?

 

[ScubaFinder]

Here are a few fine examples for you Alexandre....since you continue to harass people and beat your antiquated and un-informed drum...I will oblige you with a little knowledge that you don't seem to want to see.

Robert Stenuit

Together with another sunken treasure hunter, the American John Potter, Sténuit worked for the Atlantic Salvage Company, Ltd. on the specially-equipped vessel Dios Te Guarde for search and recovery of underwater treasure, beginning another search for the wrecks of the 1702 Plate Fleet, which lasted two years.

Peter Throckmorton worked with us at NCR in the Dominican Republic on several shipwrecks. Dr. Bob Baer also worked with Jupiter Wreck, Inc. on the San Miguel de Archangel at Jupiter Inlet Florida.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Throckmorton (died 1990), DMH, American journalist and underwater archaeologist is one of several pioneer underwater archaeologists frequently described as the Father of Underwater Archaeology.[1] Throckmorton was a founding member of the Sea Research Society and served on its Board of Advisors until his death in 1990. He was also a Trustee for NUMA and was an instructor at Nova Southeastern University.
[edit] Discoveries

The Cape Gelidonya shipwreck (circa 1200 BC) was discovered by Throckmorton in 1959 using information provided him by Kemal Aras, a sponge diver from Bodrum, Turkey who had first seen parts of the vessel's cargo of bronze ingots in 1954, but who had failed to recognize that it was actually a bronze age shipwreck and thus its archaeological importance. The ship is believed to have been Syrian.[2]
The Yassi Ada shipwreck (circa 4th century AD) was adiscovered in a fully silted ancient Roman harbor at Yassi Ada, Turkey by Peter Throckmorton and Honor Frost in 1958, but was not fully surveyed and excavated until 1967-69.[3]
The Pantano Longarini wreck (circa 600-650 AD) found by Peter Throckmorton and Gerhard Kapitan at Pantano Longarini in 1965 is of Greek or Southern Italian origin.[4]
The Dokos shipwreck (circa 2250-2050 BC) was discovered near Hydra Island, Greece in 1975 by Peter Throckmorton who found cargo from an obviously sunken ship at 20 meters depth. The cargo consisted of pottery of the Cycladic type. This is possibly the oldest wreck discovered to date.[5]

Peter also discovered the 1877 iron bark ELISSA lying off the shipbreaker's yard in Perama, Greece. From her lines and fittings and his experience sailing aboard a 'Downeaster' as a teenager, he knew ELISSA for what she was; one of the last square rig ships still in trade even if greatly modified and the trade was smuggling cigarettes. His efforts combined with those of the San Francisco Maritime Museum's founder Karl Kortum's saved the ship until she could find a safe haven with the Galveston Historical Foundation. She is now completely restored and considered one of the finest nineteenth century tall ships still sailing.
[edit] Footnotes

^ Father of Underwater Archaeology.
^ The Cape Gelidonya wreck circa 1200BC
^ The Yassi Ada wreck circa 4th century AD
^ The Pantano Longarini wreck circa 600-650AD
^ The Dokos wreck circa 2250-2050 BC

[edit] Publications


Diving for Treasure, by Peter Throckmorton, published simultaneously by The Viking Press, New York City, and Penguin Books Canada Limited (1977) ISBN/ISSN: 0670274496 Library of Congress: 77-6689
History from the Sea, edited by Peter Throckmorton, ISBN/ISSN: 0864380445
Shipwrecks and Archaeology - The Unharvested Sea, published simultaneously by Little, Brown and Company, Boston, and Little, Brown & Company (Canada) Limited, Toronto (1970), Library of Congress: 76-79373

If you need anything else, just let me know Alexandre...

Jason

 

[ScubaFinder]

dig the place up looking only for tombs with gold in it

Your closed-mindedness continues to amaze me Alexandre. Maybe 2 percent of treasure hunters would act in the way you describe. Most of us are just as interested in history as you are. We just happen to be open minded enough to realize that it's not "YOUR WAY OR NO WAY AT ALL". There has to be room for compromise on both sides.

You are not willing to accept the FACT that a guy like me can go in and excavate and record a site just as well as you, I can also conserve the artifacts better than most archaeologists I know. I can photograph items with a scale, I can use a ruler, and I've already read and re-read all of the text books you used to get your degree, plus a few more that you likely have not read. I would no more desecrate a tomb than you would.

The only difference between you and me is that if I found thousands of coins, I would keep several study collections and representative examples of every variant....but rather than using tax-payer dollars to pay for the project, I would sell the redundant coins and let the tax dollars go to more important things. You would also use citizen's tax dollars to protect and store the redundant artifacts in a dark dusty corner where no-one would ever see them.

Any unique artifacts would remain in the collection, as would many, many coins...more than were needed in most instances. If my tax dollars were enough for you archaeologists to go find and study every wreck, I would sit down and shut up....but alas here I am, and here I will remain. Why? Because I love this stuff as much as anyone can....the thrill of discovery, the challenge of the search, and the satisfaction of preserving the artifacts from all elements that threaten them. That's why I'm here, why are you here?

Jason

 

[Alexandre]

dig the place up looking only for tombs with gold in it

here I am, and here I will remain. Why? Because I love this stuff as much as anyone can....the thrill of discovery, the challenge of the search, and the satisfaction of preserving the artifacts from all elements that threaten them. That's why I'm here, why are you here?

Jason

For the same reasons. I just dont sell the coins and here I am too.

What do you do with your archaeological records, Jason?

 

[Alexandre]

Here are a few fine examples for you Alexandre....since you continue to harass people and beat your antiquated and un-informed drum...I will oblige you with a little knowledge that you don't seem to want to see.

Robert Stenuit

Peter Throckmorton worked with us at NCR in the Dominican Republic on several shipwrecks. Dr. Bob Baer also worked with Jupiter Wreck, Inc. on the San Miguel de Archangel at Jupiter Inlet Florida.

If you need anything else, just let me know Alexandre...

Robert Sténuit I like, but although having written a lot in IJNA, he is no archaeologist, he is a treasure hunter. Bob Baer, who's he?

Peter is a shock. Did he really worked for treasure hunters?

Geroges Bass wrote "even today, I often use Peter's arguments against treasure hunting, which he was the first to articulate: small third-world nations can make far more money through proper archaeology and well designed maritime museums, because of increased tourism, than by any schemes to "split the gold" with treasure hunters"...

 

[signumops]

Who is Bob Baer... close associate of Peter Throckmorton amongst other affiliations.
I've published several of his books. Here is his CV:


Curriculum Vitae
Robert H. Baer, DPA, MA, MSt
Registered Professional Archaeologist
(954) 560 – 6417
E-Mail: [email protected]



Professional Archaeologist
Consulting in Underwater
& Terrestrial Investigations
Registered Professional Archaeologist (RPA)


Residence
Mission Inn
9247 San Jose Boulevard
Howey in the Hills
Florida
34737 - 5010

Education

D.Phil - Archaeology
Institute of Archaeology
University of Oxford, UK
(Submitted - TT-07)

DPA – Doctorate, Public Administration
Concentration - Cultural Resource Management
Nova Southeastern University
Fort Lauderdale, FL

MSt – Master of Studies
Professional Archaeology
(With Distinction)
Institute of Archaeology
University of Oxford, UK

Postgraduate Diploma
Professional Archaeology
Institute of Archaeology
University of Oxford, UK



MA – Master of Arts
Maritime Archaeology
School of Archaeology & Ancient History
University of Leicester, UK

MA – Master of Arts
Asian Studies
Institute of Advanced International Studies
University of Miami
Coral Gables, Florida

MPA – Master of Public Administration
Nova University
Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Undergraduate Education

Undergraduate Diploma
English Local History
University of Oxford, UK

BA - Bachelor of Arts
History
University of Miami
Coral Gables, Florida

Associate of Arts
Military Science
Georgia Military College
Milledgeville, Georgia

Professional Associations
Member: Register of Professional Archaeologists ((ROPA).

Professional Archaeological Investigations (Chronological)

2007 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations of Submerged Borrow Areas Offshore of Singer Island, Palm Beach County, Florida. For Applied Technology Management Inc, West Palm Beach, Florida

2007 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations of a Terrestrial & Marine Communications Route in Escambia Bay, Florida. For AT&T Corp & P.E.A. Inc, In Progress.

2007 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigation of Borrow Areas Offshore of Saint Joseph Peninsula (Cape San Blas), Gulf County, Florida. For MRD Associates Inc., Destin, Florida.

2007 * Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation – Hutchinson Island – Diamond Sands Construction Site. For Morgan & Eklund Surveyors, Inc., Wabasso, Florida and Hutchinson Island 45 Inc.

2007 * Archaeological Monitoring at the Bishops Hammock Site, Nob Hill Road, Broward County, Florida. For Pan American Construction, Hialeah, Florida.

2006 * Phase I Archaeological Investigation at the Lost River Site, Martin County Florida, Tom Ryan Esq.

2006 * Archaeological Monitoring and Phase II Archaeological Investigation of the H. Hardy Matheson Snapper Creek Tract, Dade County, Florida. For Miami-Dade County Office of Historical Preservation and Miami-Dade County Division of Parks and Recreation.

2006* Archaeological Consultant: Deep Blue Marine Inc., Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations in Kirby - Rose Permit Area, FKNMS. (on-going)

2006 * Phase I Archaeological Investigation at the Wal-Mart Site, Davie, FL. For Kimley-Horn Inc., Vero Beach, FL

2006 * Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation at the One Las Olas Site. For Amicon Development Group, Hollywood, FL

2005 * Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation at the Villa De Vinci Site, 4231 North Ocean Boulevard, Fort Lauderdale, FL.

2006 * Research Design for Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation at the Westridge Oaks Site. For the Stiles Development Corporation, Fort Lauderdale, FL.

2005 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigation and Remote Sensing Survey Offshore of Gulf County, Florida. For Morgan & Eklund Surveyors, Inc., Wabasso, FL.

2005 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations and Remote Sensing Survey Offshore of Ponce Inlet Pursuant to Volusia County Beach Renourishment. For Morgan & Eklund Surveyors Inc., Wabasso, FL.

2005 * Archaeological Resource Monitoring & Archaeological Assessment at the Brickell 200 Project. For the Stiles Corp, Fort Lauderdale, FL.

2005 * Archaeological Site Mitigation and Cultural Resource Assessment. For Villages of Poinciana, Miami-Dade County, FL.

2005 * Archaeological Investigation of Spoil Material Derived From the Panther North and South Sites, Portland Plant Property, Miami-Dade, County, FL

2005 * Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation at the Schurich Mound Site, Jupiter FL, For Real Corp Development LLC.

2004 * Phase 1 Archaeological Survey of a Tract Designated For Development – The Cottages of Silver Palm Site, Miami-Dade County, FL. For H.R. Reality and Investments.

2004 * Phase 1 Archaeological Assessment of Villa Oak Hammock, Fort Lauderdale, FL. For Pan American Development Group, Hialeah, FL.

2004 * Phase 1 Archaeological Assessment at 4700 Nob Hill Road, Sunrise, FL. For Pan American Development Group, Hialeah, FL.

2004 * Phase 1 Archaeological Investigation at Bishops Hammock, Sunrise, FL. For Pan American Development Group, Hialeah, FL.

2003 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Reconnaissance at Coconut Creek Commerce Park. For Norton Construction Co., Palm Beach County, FL.

2003 * Ongoing Underwater Archaeological Investigation, Jupiter Historic Shipwreck Project. San Miguel de Archangel, 17th Century Spanish Sailing Vessel, Palm Beach County, FL

2003 * Project Archaeologist, Cultural Resources (Remote Sensing) Investigations in the Marquesas Keys. For Marquesas Rock Enterprises, Key West, FL.

2002 * Project Archaeologist, Cultural Resource Investigations Offshore of Cape Canaveral. For Galleon Exploration Inc., Jupiter, FL.

2002 * Underwater Archaeological Background Study and remote Sensing Investigation Pursuant to the Pensacola Beach, Florida Beach Restoration project, Escambia County, FL. For Olsen Engineering Inc., Jacksonville, FL.

2002 * Underwater Archaeological Investigation on the Great Bahama Bank Pursuant to the AES Calypso Pipeline Project. For Haley & Aldrich Engineering Inc., Glastonbury, Connecticut.

2002 * Underwater Archaeological Background Study and Remote Sensing Investigation Offshore of Dania Beach, Florida Pursuant to the AES Calypso Ocean Pipeline Project. For Haley & Aldrich Engineering Inc., Glastonbury, Connecticut.

2002 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations Offshore of Estero Island, Lee County, FL. For Coastal Planning & Engineering, Boca Raton, FL.

2002 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations in the Marquesas Keys, Application for Remote Sensing Permit in the Florida Keys, National Marine Sanctuary. For Marquesas Rock Enterprises Inc., Key West Fl. Submitted to National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

2001 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigation Offshoe of Sunny Isles, Miami Beach, FL. For Seimans – Arcos 1 Submarine Cable Project. For Sea Systems Corporation, Pompano Beach, FL.

2000 – 2001 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations – East Coast Fiber Cable Project. For Sea Systems Corporation, Pompano Beach, FL.

2000 – 2001 * Shipwreck Survey of the North Coast of the Dominican Republic. For North Caribbean Research Inc., Miami, FL.

2001 * Consulting Archaeologist, North Caribbean Research Old San Juan, Puerto Rico Museum Project.

2001 * Historic Property Investigation at Historic Fort Dade, Egmont Key, FL. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

2001 * S.S. Copenhagen Shipwreck Site Phase II Archaeological Report. Offshore of Pompano Beach, FL.

2000 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations Offshore of Key Biscayne, FL. For Coastal Systems Inc., Coral Gables, FL.

2000 * Submerged Cultural Resource Remote Sensing Survey of Three Proposed Borrow Areas Selected for Beach Re-nourishment. For Town of Palm Beach, FL.

2000 * Cultural Resource Remote Sensing Survey at Gulf Shores, Mobile Bay, AL. For Olsen Associates Inc., Jacksonville, FL.

2000 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations Offshore of Indian River County, FL. For Morgan & Eklund Surveyors Inc., Wabasso, FL.

2000 * The Musket Ball Shipwreck Excavation – Article in ‘Currents’, Newsletter of the NSU Oceanographic Center.

2000 * The Musket Ball Shipwreck Site, A Colonial Era Wooden Shipwreck Discovered on the North Coast of the Dominican Republic – Phase 1 and 2 Investigations. For North Caribbean Research Inc., Monti Cristi RD.

1999 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations Offshore of Lido Key, FL. For Coastal Planning & Engineering, Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1999 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations Offshore of Anna Maria Island, Manatee County, FL. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1998 * Anomaly 27 & the S.S. Copenhagen Shipwreck Site. Underwater Archaeological Investigation Offshore of Pompano Beach, FL.

1998 * A Prototype for an Artifical Reef. Constructed from Previously Salvaged Spanish Colonial Shipwreck Materials. Proposal to: Dr. Lee Niblock, State of Florida Park Service, Cape Florida State Park.

1998 * Archaeological Assessment of Shipwreck, El Rio Canal – Palm Beach County, Florida. For South Florida Water management District.

1997 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Survey and Diver Verification of Three Beach Restoration Borrow Sites Offshore of Delray Beach Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1997 * Remote Sensing Survey and Cultural resource Archaeological Investigation of Two Beach Nourishment Borrow Sites Offshore of Jupiter Inlet and Juno Beach Beach, Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1997 * Historic Property Investigation at Altos Mare, Miami Beach Florida. For Attorney, Kent Robbins and the Altos Mare Neighborhood Association v. City of Miami Beach and the State of Florida Parks Department. Report and Testimony.

1997 * Historic Property Investigation at Egmont Key, Tampa Bay, Florida. Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, Fl - State of Florida Park Service.

1997 * Remote Sensing Magnetometer Survey & Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigation of Potential Sand Borrow Sites Offshore of Broward County, Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Rtaon, FL.

1996 * Remote Sensing Magnetometer Survey & Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigation of a Deep Water Sand Borrow Site Offshore of Fort Pierce Inlet, Martin County, Florida. For Morgan & Eklund, Professional Survey Consultants Inc, Wabasso FL.

1995 * Historic Property Investigations Pursuant to the Port Canaveral Sand Bypass Project. For Olsen Associates, Jacksonville, FL. Contract to United States Army Corps of Engineers.

1995 * Remote Sensing Magnetometer Survey & Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations of Five Potential Sand Borrow Sites Offshore of Longboat Key, Sarasota County – Manatee County, Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton FL.

1995 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations and Diver Verification at the Rio Mar Shipwreck Site, Vero Beach, Indian River County. Pursuant to the Construction of a Prefabricated Erosion Protection (PEP) Artificial Reef. For Sea Systems Corporation & American Coastal Engineering.

1995 * Cultural Resource Investigation & magnetometer Survey of Two Sand Borrow Sites Offshore of Sanibel & Captiva Island’s Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1995 * Cultural Resource Investigations & Remote Sensing Survey of a Sand Borrow Site Offshore of Lido key, Florida. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1995 * Cultural Resource Investigations & Remote Sensing Survey of an Offshore Sand Borrow Site Offshore of Sanibel Island Florida, For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1994 * Historic Property Investigations at Key West Bight Historic Harbor. A Cultural Resource Assessment of Proposed Historic Harbor on Submerged Cultural Materials and Historic Structures. Report to Sea Systems Corp & Trust for Public Land.

1992 * Cultural Resource Investigations & Hydrographic Survey at New Pass & Long Boat Pass, Sarasota County, Florida. For Sea Systems Corp, Pompano Beach, Florida & Applied Technology Management, Inc., Gainesville, Fl.

1992 * Cultural Resource Magnetometer Survey & Diver Verification of the Longboat Pass Sand Borrow Site. For Sea Systems Corp, Pompano Beach, Florida.

1992 * Conference Paper – The Effect of Cultural Resources on Beach Restoration. With Mr. Doug Mann, Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc. Annual Conference of Florida Shore & Beach Preservation Association, Vero Beach, FL.

1991 * Comprehensive Plan & Construction Design For Coral Cove Park Artificial Reef Cultural Site. A Reconstruction of the Ballast Pile of a Seventeenth Century Spanish Colonial Shipwreck. With Mr. Peter Leo, Project Plan to Palm Beach County Florida Division of Parks and Recreation.

1991 * Assisted Dr. Duncan Mathewson – Florida Endowment For The Humanities Grant, ‘Being Seminole – Three Generations in Florida’. A Symposium, Exhibit & Cultural Display. Presented at the Islamorada Florida Park & Library.

1991 * Topographic Field Survey of Native American Cultural Sites – Big Cypress & Brighton Seminole Indian Reservations. Report & Annotated Topographic Maps to the Seminole Tribe of Florida, Tribal Council and Seminole Department of law Enforcement.

1991 * Cultural Resource Archaeological Investigations at Historic Jupiter Inlet Florida, Investigation of Adverse Impacts to Historic Shipwreck Site, the Remains of the 1659 Spanish Colonial Sailing Vessel, San Miguel de Archangel. With Captain Peter Throckmorton. For Coastal Planning & Engineering Inc., Boca Raton, FL.

1990 * Conference Paper – ‘The Worst Investment In The World Revisited’ – The ‘Pros and Cons of Historic Shipwreck Salvage on Florida’s Treasure Coast’. With Captain Peter Throckmorton – Maine Waterman’s Association Annual Conference.

1989 * Historic Property Investigation at Butler Plantation Extension. St. Simons Island, Georgia. For Perry Associates Development Corporation, Savannah, Ga.

1989 * Historic Property Investigation at the Withlocoochee River Submerged Site. Tribal Status Investigation for the Creek Tribe of Georgia – Alabama. With Captain Peter Throckmorton.

1983 * Salvage Law in the Coastal Zone – Symposium on International Maritime and Salvage Law. Summer Legal Conference, St. Edmund Hall, University of Oxford, UK.

1982 * History of the Seminole Tribal Police: Journal Article – Florida Police Chief Magazine.

 

[Alexandre]

Still, never heard of him. But never mind: he is, apparently, known in Florida.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Alexandre,

Dr Baer was with Peter Throckmorton on many of his journeys...and yes, both of them have worked WITH treasure hunters. Once again you display your sense of "well if I didn't know it, it must not be true". Just because you don't know of him doesn't make him less of an archaeologist. He's just not as closed minded as you...that doesn't make him wrong, nor does your arrogance make you right.

This thread is about Bahamian salvage, not Portuguese egos.

Jason

 

[ScubaFinder]

http://inadiscover.com/projects/all/central_america_caribbean/monte_cristi_pipe_wreck/introduction/

I worked on the tail end of this project...what you may not know is that Dr. Hall was contracted by a treasure hunting company....this is on INA's website and the report was edited by Dr. George Bass. All done from North Caribbean Research's vessels....a treasure hunting company.

 

[Alexandre]

http://inadiscover.com/projects/all/central_america_caribbean/monte_cristi_pipe_wreck/introduction/

I worked on the tail end of this project...what you may not know is that Dr. Hall was contracted by a treasure hunting company....this is on INA's website and the report was edited by Dr. George Bass. All done from North Caribbean Research's vessels....a treasure hunting company.

Treasure hunting being older than maritime archaeology and with all those wreckers around since the 17th century, it would be a wonder to find a pristine site in your part of the world. Anyhow, at least the Pipe wreck wasn't pipe bombed for artifacts, like the Molasses Reef wreck..

 

[VOC]

Alexandre

Your arrogance and lack of knowledge is breathtaking

You state:

"Robert Sténuit I like, but although having written a lot in IJNA, he is no archaeologist, he is a treasure hunter"

Who the hell are you to make such a statement ?, not all archaeologist have had to undergo the brainwashing that you have had together with the very limited training and experience that it takes to become a "Professional Archaeologist"

The Master's degree programme aims to provide a broad-based introduction to the investigation, interpretation and management of the maritime heritage, and aims to provide the basis for a professional career in maritime archaeology and heritage or a sound basis for further research.

The course runs annually, from late September; formal teaching ends in May, and the dissertations of full-time students are due at the end of the following September. The curriculum comprises five taught units and a dissertation of up to 15, 000 words (60 credits). The course may be taken over one year (full time) or two years (part time).


http://www.bristol.ac.uk/archanth/postgrad/maritime.html

You need to look up the word Archaeologist before you accuse anyone of not being one.

Stenuit would run rings around you on all levels, and you should gain some real experience before you start making yourself look so daft.

Just because anyone sells artefacts, or does not measure dynamic wreck sites to the millimetre does not mean they are not an archaeologist.

You might not think he is an archaeologist but tens of thousands do, including many in the field of archaeology who consult him all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sténuit

http://www.nothingtosea.com/docs/immersed_rs.pdf

Obviously on your course they did not teach you any real knowledge about archaeology, or any respect for others who do not share your warped veiw.

http://fcsh-unl.academia.edu/AlexandreMonteiro/CurriculumVitae

 

[Alexandre]

Alexandre

You need to look up the word Archaeologist before you accuse anyone of not being one.

I use to say this to my students: "Having a degree in Archaeology does not make you an Archaeologist" and I end up saying that "Sometimes, he who holds no degree in Archaeology is an Archaeologist".

Robert Sténuit ransacked a VOC ship here in Portugal, in 1974 - he is no archaeologist.

Mensun Bound, who has excavated with treasure hunters in Cape Verde, is no Archaeologist for me.

Richard Barker, a British engineer, is one of the greatest Nautical Archaeologists of all times, specializing in Portuguese ships.

Then, you have Professional Associations. The Portuguese one (APA), for instance, will remove you from the profession if you fail their deontological code by working with or for someone that will sell artifacts..

 

[capt dom]

Who really gives a flying fluck about the word or definition of the
bullcrap word or the insecure group of individuals that wish to even be classified
as "arkeologists!!!" Come on now girls this post started out with the title
"Bahamian Salvage Vessel".....

Want to see the latest edition to this undersea explorer's potential rides.......
Take a look.

The second photo is of our experienced akeological team....!

 

[aquanut]

Way to go Dom! This thread has shown enough o Alexandre's lack of insight....

 

[VOC]

Does anyone your side of the pond use Mass Flow Excavators for wreck excavation?

http://www.reefsubsea.com/Videos/_1182.html

http://www.marinsubsea.com/our-tech...avation-system/evo-excavation-core-tools.html

We built a much smaller one using a single propeller 24" mounted horizontally in a tube (draw in at the top and blow out the bottom), we had a cross bar and tag lines to prevent the whole thing turning on start up, it was very effective, as the thrust is so close to seabed.

It was very cheap to build as all we needed could by found by hunting around the scrap yards even the hydraulic motor for the prop came off something else.

The other big benefit is we could use it from any vessel with the ability to overboard it and take the hydraulic power pack

 

[LM]

Alexandre is an academic ideologue.

Their most sacred cow is preserving the concept of their own preeminence- that only they are worth listening to.
On this basis, they've fallen into an 'us versus them' mentality, around the narrative that "treasure hunters" (them) are bad while archaeologists (us) are good.

People who need simplifying ideologies are always idiots, regardless of how much time they've spent in a classroom

"Indeed, one day I will go out in the field and study a wreck site but in the meantime, everyone sit down at your desk and listen to me talk about the importance of cultural patrimony..."

^ these aren't the guys who recover history, yet if you were to ask them, their opinion is the only one that matters ^

 

[capt dom]

Does anyone your side of the pond use Mass Flow Excavators for wreck excavation?

http://www.reefsubsea.com/Videos/_1182.html

http://www.marinsubsea.com/our-tech...avation-system/evo-excavation-core-tools.html

We built a much smaller one using a single propeller 24" mounted horizontally in a tube (draw in at the top and blow out the bottom), we had a cross bar and tag lines to prevent the whole thing turning on start up, it was very effective, as the thrust is so close to seabed.

It was very cheap to build as all we needed could by found by hunting around the scrap yards even the hydraulic motor for the prop came off something else.

The other big benefit is we could use it from any vessel with the ability to overboard it and take the hydraulic power pack

A company I worked with as a consultant back in the early 90"s
who holds the patent for the submersible hydraulic axial flow water pump
loaned a large axial flow pump to Mel Fisher who operated it off of a barge.
I think it may have been called the gold digger but am not sure....

Attached are some photos of an experimental craft I was testing early on at the Jupiter
Historic Shipwreck Site. It deployed two 48 inch hydraulic axial flow water pumps
with articulating rectangular nozzles. Its concept was to "sweep sand" direction-ally
within the near shore environment. We called it the MRV "Hydrosweep".