Bannerstone Conundrum

[georgia flatlander]

Last night I was looking at a few of my bannerstones, and as always marveled at their construction. I'm still up in the air as to their intended usage, mainly because of the different sizes and forms. In particular, what concerns me about the theory of bannerstones being used as atlatl weights is the diameter of the hole. All of mine are less than 1/2" in diameter, which doesn't conform to the expected dimensions of a functioning atlatl. It would require that the atlatl be less than 1/2" in diameter, and that it be perfectly round. Atlatl weights also give me some pause as to their intended usage due to a few factors, one being shape and the other being size. Atlatls are not new technology, and if the archaeological record is to be believed, the bow-and-arrow were only developed here somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 years ago. That allows for thousands of years of atlatl (and atlatl weight) development and perfection. Given the ability of native stone workers, why would an atlatl weight not conform to the haft of the atlatl? For an item to be such an important part of their everyday life, it seems to ignore all reasoning to believe that a cylindrical atlatl weight was tied to a flat hafted atlatl, when just a little more effort would have contoured the weight perfectly. Given that the stone would last longer than the wood, it would make more sense that the natives would form the atlatl to meet the contours of the stone, and not the other way around.
I have seen flat pieces of stones with drilled holes that some call gorgets, and others call atlatl weights, and they would make more sense being an object that conforms to the atlatl.
If anyone has any insight, other than just arguing that it is so because it's the accepted theory, please expound. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that they settled for trying to make a square peg fit a round hole, so to speak, when everything else they did was purposeful and engineered.
Thanks in advance.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[sawmill man]

Im on the fence with ya , never the less would still like to see some pics.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

This article is very interesting and intriguing.

https://www.archaeology.org/issues/262-1707/features/5626-native-american-bannerstones

 

[Quartzite Keith]

Also see:

Larry's SEAC paper

 

[joshuaream]

The conundrum is something that collectors have pondered since people started seriously collecting them in the late 1800's. While there is simply some stuff we will never know, there is some realities that we do know.

The first reality, as referenced in the link that Quartzite Keith posted, is that some have very clearly found aligned with hooks in Kentucky and Southern Indiana. Aside from the ones that Webb excavated at Indian Knoll and are widely referenced and pictured, Art Gerber had a great collection of them that went up for auction in July 2018 that came from an Archaic cemetery that he and some other collectors excavated back when that was a common thing to do. So at least some of them were atlatl weights.

The next reality is that many of them are made from "exotic" stones that almost certainly indicate a trade network at a time when there probably wasn't a lot of formalized trade. I am not sure what the trade reciprocated, but orange quartz, hematite, porphyry, slate, an polished granite bannerstones have all been found well outside the normal range of the raw material. The fact that they are traded and precious, means that people might be more prone to being flashy or ornately exaggerated with them. Any knife store today has some exotic stuff that is more for display than for everyday use. My guess is some of the really stupendous bannerstones were never swung while hunting deer.

The third reality is that unlike tennis racquets, rifles, golf clubs, keyboards, and garden tools, we don't have people studying the ergonomics of atlatls. The designs that most people use today don't look a whole lot like the historic examples out there in the record. The Atlatl is a tool that was used on every continent (except Antarctica) at one point or another. It's interesting that many of them seem quite bulky compared to what we normally see. (This link includes some from the British Museum. The next link shows one of the more common Australian styles.) Maybe some of this bulk was replaced by a bannerstone? Larry Kinsella started adding the bannerstone below his hand on an atlatl and it made it much more comfortable to hold for longer periods of time in the "cocked" position.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/search.aspx?searchText=atlatl&object=24171

https://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/object/89725

Aside from some of the long, narrow tube banners that were likely pipes in my opinion, I think most of them were related to the atlatl.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Given that the stone would last longer than the wood, it would make more sense that the natives would form the atlatl to meet the contours of the stone, and not the other way around.

Wood is easier to work than stone so they would work the wood to fit the stone, not the other way around.

Joshua covered it well. I should give him a "banner" nomination. Gary

 

[georgia flatlander]

The conundrum is something that collectors have pondered since people started seriously collecting them in the late 1800's. While there is simply some stuff we will never know, there is some realities that we do know.

The first reality, as referenced in the link that Quartzite Keith posted, is that some have very clearly found aligned with hooks in Kentucky and Southern Indiana. Aside from the ones that Webb excavated at Indian Knoll and are widely referenced and pictured, Art Gerber had a great collection of them that went up for auction in July 2018 that came from an Archaic cemetery that he and some other collectors excavated back when that was a common thing to do. So at least some of them were atlatl weights.

The next reality is that many of them are made from "exotic" stones that almost certainly indicate a trade network at a time when there probably wasn't a lot of formalized trade. I am not sure what the trade reciprocated, but orange quartz, hematite, porphyry, slate, an polished granite bannerstones have all been found well outside the normal range of the raw material. The fact that they are traded and precious, means that people might be more prone to being flashy or ornately exaggerated with them. Any knife store today has some exotic stuff that is more for display than for everyday use. My guess is some of the really stupendous bannerstones were never swung while hunting deer.

The third reality is that unlike tennis racquets, rifles, golf clubs, keyboards, and garden tools, we don't have people studying the ergonomics of atlatls. The designs that most people use today don't look a whole lot like the historic examples out there in the record. The Atlatl is a tool that was used on every continent (except Antarctica) at one point or another. It's interesting that many of them seem quite bulky compared to what we normally see. (This link includes some from the British Museum. The next link shows one of the more common Australian styles.) Maybe some of this bulk was replaced by a bannerstone? Larry Kinsella started adding the bannerstone below his hand on an atlatl and it made it much more comfortable to hold for longer periods of time in the "cocked" position.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/search.aspx?searchText=atlatl&object=24171

https://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/object/89725

Aside from some of the long, narrow tube banners that were likely pipes in my opinion, I think most of them were related to the atlatl.

I agree with the above, but I'm trying to balance all of this. I have a very nice winged-type bannerstone that weighs 11.43 ounces, yet has a hole that is just 3/8" in diameter. It seems that this would have been ornamental or decorative, not only because of the condition of the artifact but because the diameter of the supporting stick would have been inadequate for actual throwing. I spoke with the archaeologist mentioned in Grim Reaper's article since he is one of the most respected bannerstone experts, and one of his theories is that they were used for cordage making as well. This makes a little more sense to me for the bannerstones with smaller diameter holes. Atlatl weights, or what people classify as atlatl weights, seem much more suited to the purpose. I have some bannerstones that are well worn, utilitarian and obviously used, and others that are pristine and show no signs of wear or usage. The more worn types tend to be smaller.
I expect that someone will find a preserved atlatl with a weight attached one day, either in a peat bog or in the thawing ice fields, and put some of this to rest. In any case, it's very interesting and fun to discuss.

 

[arrow86]

Good discussion I think like others said some were functional and used daily others clearly must have been ceremonial or decorative , I like the pipe theory how cool it would look to see bannerstone wings sticking and also a nice grip point .... who knows but after finding one this year which I still can’t believe I know mine will never be sold or used for anything but me staring at it ...... and my wife telling me to stop being weird and starring at rocks lol [emoji23]

 

[joshuaream]

Yup, balancing it all out is something people have spent years doing and so far no one has done it convincingly enough to sway everyone. That's what makes banner stones such cool relics.

I spoke with the archaeologist mentioned in Grim Reaper's article since he is one of the most respected bannerstone experts, and one of his theories is that they were used for cordage making as well.

The cordage idea has been around for a while, and some would work great as spindle whorls. The problem is that there are a lot of artifacts that make better spindle whorls based on what actually works if you want to make cordage or thread from fibers. (Small discoidals, some types of beads, plummets and ball bannerstones.) The big butterfly bannerstones really wouldn't spin as well and for as long as you would want on a spindle whorl. (If they were processing the string some other way, I'd assume we'd see more wear patterns on softer materials like you see on gorgets.)

An interesting feature of butterfly banners (particularly those made of banded slate) is how many of them are repaired by drilling holes on either side of the break, presumably for tying the broken piece back on. Something happened where they were broken in a pretty consistent way, and then even with adhesive and sinew they could be repaired and reused.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Here's one I bought from the finder that shows what Joshua is talking about. This one was being repaired. You can see on the end without the holes were they were scoring the edge to reshape it. Found in Brown county Ohio.