Be careful who you choose to follow and believe regarding PMs

jim4silver

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Apr 15, 2008
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I have to say that for the past few years I have spent many hours reading commentary from both the bull and bear PM pundits. I always sided with the bull pundits because like them I am bullish on PMs, especially silver.

But over the past couple of months it has become clear to me that most (not all) of the bullish pundits I have followed and believed are full of bull. Maybe they are so bullish they unwittingly put on blinders to anything that is counter to their view on the world of PMs. Or perhaps there is a more nefarious reason for the views some of them put forth constantly. Sometimes I wonder if some of them are actually working for the big PM shorters as "double agents"? I am not saying that in the end these bullish commentators will be shown to be wrong. In fact, they will probably be correct with respect to silver and gold going MUCH MUCH higher than today. But it seems to me many of these commentators never want to talk about anything that might make PM prices drop, except for the often discussed "manipulation".

I won't name any names because this is just speculation on my part, but as I read some of their commentaries now after having my own personal "come to Jesus moment" with respect to PMs and investing in general, it is almost comical to read what some of them write. I used to feel this way when I read certain bear commentaries over the past few years, but in hindsight, it was these bearish commentators who have been more accurate over the past year or two. In the end I believe said bear commentators will be wrong, but for now they seem more "reasonable" than their bullish counterparts. I am just saying that to really get a good "feel" for what is going on and what is likely to happen over the near term, a person should read both the bullish and bearish articles as well as keep an open mind. Instead of simply believing a commentator because you like what they say, one needs to compare what they are saying with what is actually taking place in the real world markets.

My main reason for getting into PMs was to protect my wealth, not be "right" about any particular idea such as inflation, solvency of the dollar, etc. I feel that some of the bullish pundits have done a disservice to us sheeple who are trying to better our situations. Instead of providing info based on honest ideas and views, some have been simply putting forth certain ideas because it furthers their agenda or makes them money some way.

I do feel that there are "honest" pundits on both the bearish and bullish sides, but I also feel that there are far more charlatans on both sides who simply are trying to make themselves a profit and nothing more. Not that there is anything wrong with that per se, but just be careful who you decide to believe and follow in this arena of investing.

Whether silver goes to 100 or 10 in the next year or two or three, one side will in the end be correct. I am betting it is the bulls, and the bull pundits should come out looking like prophets after that happens. Just know that there could be considerable time passing between now and then, and alternative ways to profit a person might miss by simply following any pundit (bull or bear) without keeping even a slightly open mind.

I have learned the importance of diversification. Even if just among PMs. If a person really believes all fiat/paper investments will collapse, they should have more than just silver or gold in their portfolios.

PS Remember a couple of days ago when certain bull pundits were saying how silver is going to disappear soon mostly based the US Mint's suspension of silver eagles sales? Well, my local coin stores have them in now, and get this, the premiums today are LESS than they were a couple of weeks ago! That's right, now they are roughly 3 bucks over spot instead of 3.50 to 3.75!!! Even with all the paper manipulation in the world this should not happen in the ASE market where such coins are so highly in demand right now IF there really is a shortage of silver or even a shortage of ASEs for that matter. So with the big silver shortage, premiums are dropping on the much favored 2013 ASE? The world has certainly turned upside down it appears.

Just my opinion on all this.

Jim
 

CoinFetcher

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The premiums on eagles went up at the large commercial coin shop in my area. From 3 to 3.75. The other coin shops sometimes have them for around 2.50 .

I like your write up. My bullish friends won't listen to reason, and are in 5 figure cc debit, but still stack like crazy. Either, they will win big, or bust. That's life.

Peace on earth
 

lost

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Jim...fully understand your thoughts on the guys who write, pundits for lack of a better word. Haven't checked, but I'll bet there are some guys writing glorious praise on the Corn and Soybean web sites just like the silver and gold sites. Buy, sell, fill the silos to the top and hold, ect.

But, to the reason I'm posting. A new LCS opened up here locally. I got to visit it Wednesday and was impressed with his stock and friendly attitude. Four employees. I overheard the guy telling someone on the phone he had a 1000 2013 Silver Eagles. So, no shortage here. The shop was packed, didn't get to ask any prices on the SE's or see any of them in coin holders with prices. Did notice his prices on one oz silver rounds and 10 oz silver bars were in line with what I see on the internet sites. I'll go back and maybe catch them when they are not so busy. I'm more or less interested in trading Silver Dollars for Eagles. I've cherry picked the ones I have.

Plus I've been picking some up for $26 each. From just word of mouth. Got 40 from our local gunsmith. All common dates. I didn't really want them but I've known the guy for 30 years and he going through a rough patch. I kept those separate in case he might buy them back one day. He says he might. All this buying started when I offered a Denny Waitress $26 for a silver dollar she had in her purse. She actually ran to get her purse. She took my phone number and it just sort of snowballed. Calls from strange Hispanic people with one to ten SD's. Always meet at Dennys. With the Gunsmiths 40, I'm up to 101. Found no Keys. I'm not even sure there is $26 melt in a SD. Do know the Antiques Shops buy at $26 and sell between $50 and $60. LCS sells rough commons at $30. So I'm OK. Just didn't mean to get into the SD buying business.
 

Marchas45

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Hi! Jim I think the market is getting to you with all the Ups and Downs I've felt that way myself. I'll mention one Pundit that I can't stand and that is David Morgan he's in it for himself and he's always changing his mind plus he drives me carazy listening to him and my Bull is Jim Sinclair he put his money where is mouth is. There are a bunch out there that I wouldn't follow if my life depended on it. Chis Duane say's "Listen to All, Follow None".
 

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jim4silver

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Apr 15, 2008
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Hi! Jim I think the market is getting to you with all the Ups and Downs I've felt that way myself. I'll mention one Pundit that I can't stand and that is David Morgan he's in it for himself and he's always changing his mind plus he drives me carazy listening to him and my Bull is Jim Sinclair he put his money where is mouth is. There are a bunch out there that I wouldn't follow if my life depended on it. Chis Duane say's "Listen to All, Follow None".

Charlie,

I like Jim Sinclair as well. His gold price prediction of $3500 is conservative in my opinion. I don't know if he likes silver or not in that he never talks about it.

At least my palladium is doing well LOL! I plan to buy more if it corrects a bit. It is due for some type of correction it would seem.

Jim
 

TreasurePirate69

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Jim, welcome to my world (and to the Dark Side). :) I have gone through the exact same experience over the past year or so. Doing my own research really opened my eyes. Some of these pundits are being willfully deceptive. What amazes me is that no one ever seems to call them on it. Instead, the exact same "facts" get parroted over and over again on the silver bulls' web sites as if it is gospel.

Oh well, I can't change that and I'm not going to try. If I actually knew anything about which way the silver price was going to go then I would be a pundit myself. Instead, I'm just a confused little man who takes comfort in knowing that he is well diversified in all of his investments. I may not make a fortune on my PM holdings. But I'm not going to lose my shirt either. :tongue3:
 

vargg

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ok guys im pretty new to metals in last year or so. but what i gather from all ive read and seen online is that the price of pms get minorly manipulated up or down. but for the most part given the situation of the falling dollar, that pms are being majorly supressed by the forces that be to keep any value to the dollar? i just dont see how u can lose in the long run with pms. i think the question isnt IF but WHEN the dollar goes kaput.opinions??
 

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TreasurePirate69

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ok guys im pretty new to metals in last year or so. but what i gather from all ive read and seen online is the price for the most part get minorly manipulated up or down. but for the most part given the situation of the falling dollar, that pms are being majorly supressed by the forces that be to keep any value to the dollar? i just dont see how u can lose in the long run with pms. i think the question isnt IF but WHEN the dollar goes kaput.opinions??

Depends on who you ask around here. For example, my opinion (which I won't go into here) differs greatly from that of someone like Marchas45. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a sure bet. Do your own research and take what so-called experts say with a grain of salt.
 

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jim4silver

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Apr 15, 2008
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The one thing I am 100% sure of is that we will never pay our national debt off, and probably never pay it down nor have a year with a surplus from this point on. So far I have never seen anyone say how we will get out of the mess we are in. Maybe what is taking place is planned, with some type of specific goal in mind if/when the currencies crash or the debt becomes unmanageable?

Having said that, I am 99% sure there will be a breakdown of fiat currencies around the world someday (could be in 3 years or 30 years?). In history this type of thing has happened over and over to societies of every kind when they somehow devalued their currency (this even happened in ancient Rome, via their silver denarius). Sort of a from boom to bust. Then start over and repeat over and over. Since it may take a 100 or more years for said cycle to complete in this modern era, most cannot imagine such a thing happening because they have never witnessed it in their own country.

The big question is how will this affect gold and silver? I used to think I knew the answer, but now I am more unsure. If the dollar were to crash, PMs would gain. My current worry is that at some point if there is not a dollar collapse, the interest rates might rise or be made higher by the FED. That cuts against the whole QE practice , but if it were to happen gold and to a lesser extent silver, would be hit big time.

What happens between now and whatever bad events may happen (to the dollar or other currencies) is unknown. I don't put anything past those who have a vested interest in keeping all the paper investments alive and have the power to short tremendous amounts of paper commodities day after day. I believe many of these big shorts have major derivative exposure that they must deal with.

I guess it is possible that since all countries now use fiat, and most of them now are doing their own QE, we could ride this pattern for a long time. However, if any country were to come up with some type of new "backed" currency, it probably would become the most favored currency and cause the others to lose value.

PS My short term opinion is that shortly the Euro will start to drop again and the dollar will have a relatively brief rally, during that time the powers that be will push gold and silver lower. If this happens, I believe it will be the last push down before a huge rally. During that later rally the shorts will become longs. Many PM bulls will have given up by then and sold their stash. They will cry when they see PMs rise up so fast and they realize their stash has been sold.

But again who knows what will happen? Just my opinions.

Jim
 

TreasurePirate69

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Very interesting Jim. I don't disagree with most of what you've said other than the part about the possibility of another backed currency becoming popular. I just don't see that being feasible for any country in this day and age. Pretty much any backed currency eventually gets destroyed by arbitrage. This was one of the main reasons why we went off of the gold standard (and why it would be foolish to go back on it again... Sorry Ron Paul spporters). Whether your currency is backed by gold or some other commodity, market forces will conspire to deplete your supply of that commodity which will ultimately kill your currency. I think fiat is here to stay for all countries from here on out.
 

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jim4silver

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Are you still stackin' Jim?

Not at the same rate I was. I have been buying a bit more of the PGMs lately. Got a little palladium this afternoon (Maples). I still get a little silver here and there. I probably have too much of my net worth in PMs already, but now that things are diversified I feel much better.

Jim
 

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jim4silver

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Very interesting Jim. I don't disagree with most of what you've said other than the part about the possibility of another backed currency becoming popular. I just don't see that being feasible for any country in this day and age. Pretty much any backed currency eventually gets destroyed by arbitrage. This was one of the main reasons why we went off of the gold standard (and why it would be foolish to go back on it again... Sorry Ron Paul spporters). Whether your currency is backed by gold or some other commodity, market forces will conspire to deplete your supply of that commodity which will ultimately kill your currency. I think fiat is here to stay for all countries from here on out.

You are right in that the chances of another backed currency are slim. I don't think they will have one in any country because you cannot inflate when you have a truly backed currency. There has been talk about China having a backed currency, but we will have to see if that ever happens.

Kind of ironic though that our country's fiscal condition is not much different than that of many of its citizens.

Jim
 

Marchas45

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Mmmmmmmmmmmmm ??? Well I guess I'm a true believer in Manipulation and I believe the dollar is going to be worth ziltch down the road. I'm also all in in PM's and when I get some Fiat I spend it all on PM's. Treasure Pirate My Believes are My Believes and I don't give a crap if you don't like or believe in my opinions. If you are correct in your mind then I will probably lose everything in the long run. So I would appreciate you not bringing up my name. Keep Stacking
 

TreasurePirate69

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Mmmmmmmmmmmmm ??? Well I guess I'm a true believer in Manipulation and I believe the dollar is going to be worth ziltch down the road. I'm also all in in PM's and when I get some Fiat I spend it all on PM's. Treasure Pirate My Believes are My Believes and I don't give a crap if you don't like or believe in my opinions. If you are correct in your mind then I will probably lose everything in the long run. So I would appreciate you not bringing up my name. Keep Stacking

I apologize Marchas45. I did not intend to insult you. I did not say that you were wrong or that I was right. Quite the contrary. I simply said that we had different opinions and if someone asks more than one person out here that they would get different answers. We all have our own opinions and how "right" we turn out to be will likely be measured in shades of gray rather than in black and white. I also did not mean to imply that you are going to lose all of your money. I think it should obviously be a concern for anyone who puts all of their money in one place. But there is no reason to believe that silver is any worse in that regard than say stocks, bonds, or real estate.

So please accept my apologies if I have offended you. It was not my intention at all. You are free to do as you choose and your opinions and actions are no less "correct" than anyone elses out here. In fact, there may come a day when we will all be kicking ourselves for not following your lead. If/when that happens, you can feel free to use my name when you say "I told Treasure Pirate so!". :thumbsup:
 

Marchas45

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I apologize Marchas45. I did not intend to insult you. I did not say that you were wrong or that I was right. Quite the contrary. I simply said that we had different opinions and if someone asks more than one person out here that they would get different answers. We all have our own opinions and how "right" we turn out to be will likely be measured in shades of gray rather than in black and white. I also did not mean to imply that you are going to lose all of your money. I think it should obviously be a concern for anyone who puts all of their money in one place. But there is no reason to believe that silver is any worse in that regard than say stocks, bonds, or real estate.

So please accept my apologies if I have offended you. It was not my intention at all. You are free to do as you choose and your opinions and actions are no less "correct" than anyone elses out here. In fact, there may come a day when we will all be kicking ourselves for not following your lead. If/when that happens, you can feel free to use my name when you say "I told Treasure Pirate so!". :thumbsup:

Apologies accepted Treasure Pirate. Jim suggested I buy Platinum a few years ago and I didn't follow his advise and look at Platinum now, it's all a gamble as far as prices go but I am in it for survival and I believe my Silver will help me with that. I didn't mean that you implied that I may lose my money that was my thought and if I did, I will be able to live with that, as it was my choice to make that decision in the first place.

I also just acquired a few mining stocks against my grain of thinking on paper but a little thing inside told me to buy them as if and when silver and gold climb so will the demand to buy them and that will create more fiat for the miners to start mining again. So people do change, I do believe it or not.
:laughing7::laughing7:
 

TreasurePirate69

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You are right in that the chances of another backed currency are slim. I don't think they will have one in any country because you cannot inflate when you have a truly backed currency. There has been talk about China having a backed currency, but we will have to see if that ever happens.

Kind of ironic though that our country's fiscal condition is not much different than that of many of its citizens.

Jim

The ability to inflate is a double edged sword. Controlled, it can be very valuable and in fact, crucial to the success of an economy. When abused, it can destroy an economy. Many people look at inflation as being inherently evil and fail to see the good it can do or how necessary it can sometimes be.
 

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