Bear Spanish Monuments

[Springfield]

I believe that ALL natural valuables in New Spain (the Spanish territories) were considered the property of the King. The King would issue charters to different explorations groups to come here and search for the valuables.....gold, silver,and to a lesser extent, semiprecious gems. The "pay" for the explorers was that they could keep 4/5ths of their finds and separate out 1/5th for the King. That 5th was to be hiddened separately from the other finds, and in many cases, separate trails OUT were called for. Only the King's cut was allowed to travel the King's trail.

So, technically, ALL mines in the Spanish territories were the King's Mines. ...

That may be the opinion of the treasure book writers, stack, but Mexican historians differ:

Ward (1820):
"The King (individually) was not proprietor of a single mine, nor is there one instance, since the Conquest, of an attempt having been made by the Government to interfere with the mode of working adopted by individuals, or to diminish the profits of the successful adventurer, under any plea, or pretence, from the more fortunate, a higher rate of duties than that which was payable by the poorest miner to the Royal Treasury. By this judicious liberality and good faith, the fullest scope was given for private exertion; and this, in a country where mineral treasures are so abundant, was soon found to be all that was requisite in order to ensure their production to a great extent."

Humboldt (1822) agrees with this judgment:
"All the metallic wealth is in the hands of individuals. The government possesses no other mine … The individuals receive from the king a grant of a certain number of measures on the direction of a vein or a bed; and they are only held to pay very moderate duties on the ores extracted from the mines." ....
Mining-Led Growth in Bourbon Mexico,the Role of the State, and the Economic Cost of Independence, By Rafael Dobado and Gustavo A. Marrero
No. 06/07-1 of The David Rockefeller Center for Latin American Studies, Working Papers on Latin America.

There was an entire thread on this subject last year:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/278600-who-owned-those-spanish-mines.html

 

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[gorgias]

Not to get off-topic, but I've seen many bears. They are always on hillsides, and many of them become hunchbacked/bent-over monks from other angles.

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, Spring:
If you condense all of those statements by the "historians", they are saying the same thing I was saying........all valuables in the ground of the Spanish territories belonged to the King (the royal "house") and all recoveries were "taxed" a portion for the King (the royal coffers). That is confirmed by their comments, and I did not say there were any dedicated mines belonging to the King (personally). Those exploration parties were, in affect, "sharecroppers" for the King, but the King got the smaller shares in this case.
QUOTE: The individuals receive from the king a grant of a certain number of measures on the direction of a vein or a bed; and they are only held to pay very moderate duties on the ores extracted from the mines." ....

 

[Springfield]

... Those exploration parties were, in affect, "sharecroppers" for the King, but the King got the smaller shares in this case. ....

Actually, those explorers were rich developers, hardly sharecroppers. Mining was then and is now a very expensive operation requiring a lot of well-paid help. The explorers paid for it all - the king was not in on the project. The only way the king got involved was when the miners bought mercury, which was nearly 100% controlled by the king. Based on the amount the miners bought, he had an idea of his one-fifth share from the mine and demanded it when the expedition checked in back home. Sure, there were some wildcatters off the grid who looked for placer and oxide veins, but do you really believe they returned to Mexico and left their gold in the American southwest?

Most of what you believe about 'Spanish mines in the southwest' was dreamed up in the 20th century to sell treasure hunting books. By the way, my complete set of Kenworthy books (one signed) is for sale for $500.

 

[Shortstack]

Springfield:
I was using the term "sharecropper" as an example of their arrangement....not the "class" of workers / explorers. In sharecropping, the 'cropper does all of the work and gets only a percentage of what the crop brings in.


Trailrider:
On the pig monument (and any other large animal / human face) look for a "V" . It will point to the proper direction indicator.

 

[Shortstack]

A "V" normally is pointing at the true direction indicator on the monument. A "V" that has some other aid connected with it will mean something else.
Remember, a "V" in the Spanish alphabet has a value of "5".......aka, the Roman numeral for that number. That "v" with the pull tag, might be saying,
go 5 measurements in the direction the tag is indicating. A "v" with other letters should be counted as a value of 5 added to the value of the
others.

Have you downloaded or copied the "Spanish Alphabet Code" that Old Dog posted? I believe that animal carvings are on the INbound trails and
human heads are looking down the OUTbound (homeward) trails.

 

[Rawhide]

I would like to know what people have found with a bear monument or a V sign? Please post pics with your explanation as I would like to see what I am missing.

 

[usernotfound]

I would like to know what people have found with a bear monument or a V sign? Please post pics with your explanation as I would like to see what I am missing.

Here are two bears. They are both by the entrance to a hole, I have other pictures where the bear is not visibly next to a hole. I'm too lazy to look through all my pictures right now...but remind me later if you want to see another bear or two...on another site.

 

[usernotfound]

It depends on orientation! The "V" can be verification. The "V" can be the Roman numeral five. The V can be a "Caret". It can mean "refer to". - because "it lacks" or "needs to be separated from". In monuments it can be confirming and pointing to the nose or eye to "direct you". "<" ">" less than, greater than. blah blah blah

OR my favorite...it claims ownership from a certain group.


Just noticed SS post after I typed this. Refer to the above.

 

[usernotfound]

Directing the way. Monuments sometimes, have the eye the shape of what they are looking at... So if they are wearing shades...you will never know!

 

[Rawhide]

While I see the bear(s) and the holes. I know your work User, I was asking others also. I asked about the "V" as I study Jesuit markings and found the V very helpful. I am more interested to see what others have found, and what they see the "V" for. I cant post "V" right now as I am still working those sites. But as you can see, I have a nice standing bear. I really fell in love with this area. It will offer many hours of exploring in the future. The Bear has a twin also.

 

[Springfield]

Casca, the Jesuits weren't in New Mexico until the late 1800's. You might look into the Franciscan Order, a much more interesting group that was active here in the 1500's, beginning with Marcos de Niza. Like rocks? Been here?

 

[Shortstack]

Usernotfound:

In your post ( #144 ) could that opening in the right hand photo be or have been a crypt?? There's a face at the end of your orange arrow
head and there are 2 rather large carvings of some seated folks on the left bank, nearer to the camera. The nearest looks like a woman
wearing a headdress and the second one, just to the other side of her looks like a lion's face. Sort of like a "beauty and the beast" thing.


Trailrider:
Perhaps that fox was a spirit animal and he was taking your food offerings as a peace sign for your being in the area. If you'd tried to
scare him off instead of making friends, your trip may have turned out differently, as in "bad". Just a thought.


Springfield:
Your photo looks like the March of the Penguins.


Casca:
"V"s can be etched or carved into the face of a rock and also, sometimes it is cut into the EDGE of a stone, as in a notched out place.
Those notches have been found in low, horizontal stone skirts, on a vertical edge, as well as on a top edge making it look like a "gunsight".


EDIT: Usernotfound........I meant the LEFT bank, not the right as I first wrote.

 

[usernotfound]

SS,

Circle Ranch - Filed under 'University of Texas at El Paso'

 

[trailrider]

Red in a book 'signs and symbols', that the majority of all treasure/mine map symbols are derived from the Bible. If the symbol is near 2 or 4 numbers, it means look to the Bible, using the 2 to 4 numbers to find the chapter and the verse of the gospel written by that figure, that will tell you the direction, distance or what you need to know. The groups who used the Bible codes were they acting righteously in the name of GOD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then the LORD'S word came to him, saying ''Go away from here, turn eastward, and hide yourself by the brook Cherith, that is before the Jordan. You shall drink from the brook, I have commanded the ravens to feed you there.......The ravens brought him bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook. After a while, the brook dried up, because there was no rain in the land. 1 Kings 17:2-4, 6-7 -------- Refer to post #96, listed are some symbols and the chapters of the Bible they are referring to, compliments of 'Shortstack'.

 

[trailrider]

I think some groups used bible coded methods a lot because it was easy for them at the time. Everyone carried one, they knew it front and back and could recite the verses from memory. They made the word come alive by taking things from text in a literal sense. Unfortunately I don't think they were really acting in the name GOD. Maybe closer to the likes of the Anti-Christ.

Thanks for the input. What you stated sounds logical, because many of them desired the precious metal above everything, not putting GOD first. But I believe that there were some that put GOD first and believed what the Bible said. And knowing the scriptures they would believe the judgement of GOD, that everyone will be accountable for what they have done in their life.

 

[trailrider]

'Easter' 2013 Jesus said these things and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, ''Father the time as come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you; even as you gave Him authority over all flesh, he will give eternal life to all whom you have given Him. 'This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true GOD, and HIM whom you sent, Jesus Christ. John: 17:1-3

 

[usernotfound]

View attachment 770562 Huge monument, near floor of southeast canyon. Still thinking about this one?

I have a couple of thoughts regarding it, but every time I see your pictures. I wish you had a better camera.

 

[hadji009]

View attachment 770562 Huge monument, near floor of southeast canyon. Still thinking about this one?

looks like u have a couple dogs, crosses, number 7, pig,bird?

 

[trailrider]

Skyline rock outcrop monument marking trail in southeast canyon.