Bedrock and Gold: The mysteries . . .

[Lanny in AB]

Do you love to chase the gold? Please join me--lots of gold hunting tips, stories of finds (successful and not), and prospecting poetry.

Nugget in the bedrock tip:

I had a visit with a mining buddy this past weekend, and he told me of an epic battle to get a nugget out of the bedrock, and of what he learned from the experience. I thought some of you might like to learn from his mistake.

While out detecting one day, he came across a large sheet of bare bedrock. The bedrock was exposed because the area had been blasted off with a water cannon (a monitor), by the old-timers! It was not fractured bedrock, in fact it was totally smooth.

He was not optimistic at all of the prospects of a nugget. But, for some reason (we've all been there) he decided to swing his detector over that bedrock. After a long time, just as he was about to give up on his crazy hunch, he got a signal, right out of that smooth bedrock.

There was no crevice, no sign of a crevice, nada! So, he had to go all the way back to camp to get a small sledge and a chisel. The signal in the rock intrigued him, but he still wasn't overly optimistic. For those of you that have chased signals in a similar situation, sometimes there's a patch of hot mineralization in the bedrock that sounds off, but this spot, according to him, was sharp and clear right in the middle of the signal, not just a general increase of the threshold like you get when you pass over a hot spot in the bedrock.

Anyway, he made it back to the spot and started to chisel his way into the bedrock. If any of you have tried this, it's an awful job, and you usually wind up with cut knuckles--at the least! Regardless, he kept fighting his way down, busting out chunks of bedrock. He kept checking the hole, and the signal remained very strong.

This only puzzled him all the more as he could clearly see that it was solid bedrock with no sign of any crevice. He finally quit at the end of the day, at a depth of about a foot, but still, nothing in the hole.

An experienced nugget shooting friend dropped by the next morning to see him, and asked him how the hunt was going. My buddy related his tale of the mysterious hole in the bedrock, and told the friend to go over and check it out, and see if he could solve the riddle.

Later in the day, the other nugget hunter returned. In his hand was a fine, fat, sassy nugget. It weighed in at about an ounce and a quarter! After my friend returned his eyeballs to their sockets and zapped his heart to start it again, he asked where the nugget had come from.

Imagine his surprise when he heard it came from the mystery hole!! He asked how deep the other guy had gone into the bedrock to get it. "Well, no deeper" was his reply.

So, here's the rest of the story as to what happened. When the successful nugget hunter got to the bedrock, he scanned the surface got the same strong signal as my buddy. He widened out the hole and scanned again. Still a solid tone. He widened the hole some more so he could get his coil in, and here's the key and the lesson in this story, he got a strong signal off the side of the hole, about six inches down, but set back another inch into the side of the bedrock!!

My unlucky friend, the true discoverer of the gorgeous nugget's resting place had gone deep past the signal while digging his hole!!

Now, of course, a good pinpointer would easily solve this problem. The problem was, my buddy didn't have one, so why would he widen the hole, right? Well, the other guy was the one with more experience, and that's why he did. It was a lot more work, but what a payoff!

So, my buddy's butt is still black and blue from where he kicked himself for the next week or so for having lost such an incredible prize.

Some nugget hunting lessons are harder than others to learn. . . .

All the best,

Lanny


P.S. When in gold country--check the bedrock, regardless of whether it looks likely or not! Mother Nature likes to play games sometimes.

 

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[Lanny in AB]

I looked at the cheap ones, and I looked at the better quality ones. You pay more for the quality, but they sure last and work better. I don't remember the name of the one I bought, but I've snaked a lot of boulders out of washes and off of dry bedrock with it (can't winch boulders in an active stream-bed where I chase the gold).

I find a spot on dry bedrock where the Oldtimers worked it, winch off the boulders they stacked, and then very carefully detect the bedrock that I expose that used to be under their stacks.

Go for quality on your winching unit. I bought some heavy-duty nylon slings that form around the boulders quite nicely, and some strong nylon straps that I hook to the the hand winch. It's not fast work, but it sure moves those big rocks.

All the best 63,

Lanny

 

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[63bkpkr]

Hi Lanny,
The Lug-All brand is a super strong though Aluminum casting cable type hoist and comes in different ton ratings BUT it is $400 or so for a two to three ton unit. There are other "lever hoist" brands that work off of chains with prices as high as a bit over $1,000 but again all of these are out of my current financial status. I will try to purchase one of the high tonnage cable hoists on sale from Harbor Freight and will just have to deal with it if it fails.

Quite a few years back I went into the canyon with a friend to do some high climbing and then prospecting/boulder moving with a lever hoist and brought along some nylon tow strap to use as boulder straps. My pack going in was 115 pounds and at that time I was "FIT" and did not even notice it!! The nylon strap I had began to deteriorate quickly due to the strap rubbing on other boulders. Last year I brought in a set of tire chains to be used as boulder straps and they worked out very well, no signs of links coming apart even after tugging out some really large boulders with them. These are tire "chains" not the cable type and the ones with good lugs on the cross chains work the best as they dig into the boulders.

What you described about moving the stacks of boulders the 'old timers' stacked exists at the site I have in mind, actually several sites I have in mind, and I already know there's gold there as I helped to work a bench there last year going down to bedrock and we highbanked some nice gold from the site. Nitro gave me a web link for constructing a highbanker box for a Keene A52 so that will take a while for me to build but build it I will as the Keene unit costs a good $300 or more with all that is required for it and CA sales tax on top of the sale price. Then we will see what happens with the job scene as it seems to be warming up for me. More later.........63bkpkr

 

[Lanny in AB]

63,

This is turning into a good little discussion on winching techniques. My partner has used the tire chains before to move boulders, and he likes them as they do a good job. If I can get my equipment close enough to get tire chains to the boulder piles--I'll try that out, but in my area, the best places are still good because they're hard to get to.

The reason I went to the heavy-duty nylon straps/slings was to save weight when packing in to an area to work, while carrying the winch as well. I have all of my slings/straps (I have extras in the bag in case I ruin one), the winch, the longer straps, and a length of aircraft cable in a heavy duty sports bag. When I'm rigged using the nylon slings, and a boulder flips so that the straps start to grind against the bedrock, I slack the cable off, reposition the straps, and start to winch again. Moreover, the area I'm currently working doesn't have coarse boulders (like granite), as the big rocks are mostly a smoother composition.

I've never winched up any kind of grade, as the sheets of bedrock I work are relatively flat, with only minor rises, so I can control when I need to slack off the tension to adjust the straps.

Moreover, it's important to note that I have cleared enough areas now, that I've often found nothing but square nails and canslaw--that can be discouraging, but when it pays off with a nugget, that's what puts the spark back in the mix to power the planning gears and get them turning in the gold-chasin' brain again.

Until you get a chance to spend more money, the lower-end winches/come-along/lever hoists will work well enough to get the job done--they just don't hold up and last like the better ones, or function as smoothly, but you've already experienced that.

On a different note, I hope you have enough cash to get a chainsaw like the one I have: it starts well, runs smooth, has lots of power, is quality made, and has always been exceptionally reliable.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi Lanny,
The cash for the chain saw is already in the bank. Now I need to know for certain that I'm going into the mountains during winter so that I will really need a gas powered saw to keep me from waisting so much time and energy with a hand powered saw otherwise, I already have a storage shed full of some truly Wonderful toys with no time to use them and do not care to add a $360 chain saw to the mix of things waiting for me to have time to go play with them. Speaking of cash, the handyman job I'm working on has just been extended for another week which is ok though I am starting to get bored with it. In early Feb I'm likely to have a consulting gig at a medical device company and if it goes well I believe they will do a contract for 16 hours a week for say like 8 weeks and that would be great as it would allow me to be in the mountains every week though the trips will all be shorter than the planned two week trip. What a guy has to do for money!

Yup, tire chains a cable type snatch block with its chain to hold it to a tree or something for angling the pull but one must be careful about cables or nylon straps when they break or pull free as they have stretched while pulling the heavy load and will FLY backwards when released suddenly and can do some real damage to anything they hit. It is nothing more than stored energy being released quickly so user be careful.

Moving boulders is WORK plain and simple. But, moving the Right Boulder(s) can be productive. Also knowing that the area is a known producer helps turn the odds in the boulder movers favour. It's just like real estate, location, location, location is so important.

Have fun.............63bkpkr

 

[EagleDown]

Halito 63bkpkr,

Back in the 80s, I designed and built several gasoline powered winches. They weighed approx. 45 lbs
with the 3hp B&S engine and 130ft of 3/8th inch aircraft cable. They tested out to have a dead lift
capacity of 3,000+ lbs. By using a double block pull, I dragged boulders that I'm sure weighed over 4 tons.

I used a 3" wide "tie-down" strap that I got from a trucker friend. I had an upholstery shop put a
4" steel ring on one end and a steel triangle on the other end. I'd put it around a boulder, slip the
triangle through the ring, then put cable hook on the triangle and was ready to start pulling.

The biggest problem was, when I double-blocked it, it was slow. But not near as slow as a couple
of times, when I triple-blocked it. BUT, there weren't many boulders that I was worried about trying.
(Well, I never tried the "House Rock" that I posted on my thread). That would have been
a true challenge.

The point being, I put that truckers strap through some heavy work over about 2 years and never had
any problems with it. Once it tightened around the boulder, the harder the winch pulled, the tighter the
strap gripped. When I had the boulder out of the way, all I had to do was release the tension and just
slip the strap up and off of the boulder. If part of it was under the boulder, easy, just fire the engine
back up and pull it out. Worked great, every time.

The winch was ultimately stolen from me while I was dredging in Bear Creek.

Eagle

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi there EagleDown,
Thank you for your response, a truckers strap is a very different animal from the 2.5" wide vehicle hauling strap I was using back in the day. A 3 ton winch, Wow! A friend of mines father, an elevator engineer, designed some winches and they always worked great till a fire melted that nice Honda engine and changed the temper of all the metal on the winch. A truckers strap would be lighter than the tire chains and as you've indicated is quite form fitting to any boulder.

Thanks again............63bkpkr

 

[Lanny in AB]

Halito 63bkpkr,

Back in the 80s, I designed and built several gasoline powered winches. They weighed approx. 45 lbs
with the 3hp B&S engine and 130ft of 3/8th inch aircraft cable. They tested out to have a dead lift
capacity of 3,000+ lbs. By using a double block pull, I dragged boulders that I'm sure weighed over 4 tons.

I used a 3" wide "tie-down" strap that I got from a trucker friend. I had an upholstery shop put a
4" steel ring on one end and a steel triangle on the other end. I'd put it around a boulder, slip the
triangle through the ring, then put cable hook on the triangle and was ready to start pulling.

The biggest problem was, when I double-blocked it, it was slow. But not near as slow as a couple
of times, when I triple-blocked it. BUT, there weren't many boulders that I was worried about trying.
(Well, I never tried the "House Rock" that I posted on my thread). That would have been
a true challenge.

The point being, I put that truckers strap through some heavy work over about 2 years and never had
any problems with it. Once it tightened around the boulder, the harder the winch pulled, the tighter the
strap gripped. When I had the boulder out of the way, all I had to do was release the tension and just
slip the strap up and off of the boulder. If part of it was under the boulder, easy, just fire the engine
back up and pull it out. Worked great, every time.

The winch was ultimately stolen from me while I was dredging in Bear Creek.

Eagle

You're the man when it comes to practical inventions--you have great ideas on how to solve tough problems with very practical means. That aircraft cable is tough stuff too.

The idea of a trucker's strap is a sound one. The straps I use aren't quite as large, but they work nicely, and are light to pack. But when someone is up against some monsters, what you're talking about, and even straps of a wider dimension, sounds more applicable for sure.

Sorry you had your winch stolen--that's always disappointing and often discouraging.

All the best, and nice to hear from you again as your knowledge always enriches the collective prospecting brain,

Lanny

 

[Lanny in AB]

Hi Lanny,
The cash for the chain saw is already in the bank. Now I need to know for certain that I'm going into the mountains during winter so that I will really need a gas powered saw to keep me from waisting so much time and energy with a hand powered saw otherwise, I already have a storage shed full of some truly Wonderful toys with no time to use them and do not care to add a $360 chain saw to the mix of things waiting for me to have time to go play with them. Speaking of cash, the handyman job I'm working on has just been extended for another week which is ok though I am starting to get bored with it. In early Feb I'm likely to have a consulting gig at a medical device company and if it goes well I believe they will do a contract for 16 hours a week for say like 8 weeks and that would be great as it would allow me to be in the mountains every week though the trips will all be shorter than the planned two week trip. What a guy has to do for money!

Yup, tire chains a cable type snatch block with its chain to hold it to a tree or something for angling the pull but one must be careful about cables or nylon straps when they break or pull free as they have stretched while pulling the heavy load and will FLY backwards when released suddenly and can do some real damage to anything they hit. It is nothing more than stored energy being released quickly so user be careful.

Moving boulders is WORK plain and simple. But, moving the Right Boulder(s) can be productive. Also knowing that the area is a known producer helps turn the odds in the boulder movers favour. It's just like real estate, location, location, location is so important.

Have fun.............63bkpkr

63--great to hear from you once more. Yes, buying prospecting toys is something that needs consideration, and using them is always to be undertaken with care and caution (wise counsel on your part).

I hope the job situation works out, and I hope that you're able to get ample time to play this season.

Keep me updated with how things work/don't work out--there is much to be learned from mistakes. The school of hard knocks has taught me far more about life and prospecting than my university degrees ever have!

All the best,

Lanny

 

[budrow]

Lanny This is Budrow ,Thought I'd stop by and say hello. Sorry I missed your post back in November about the xtera 705, I had it out a few times but had no luck with it and Im sure if I were in the right spot it would be different. Its suppose to warm up this week in the 30s to 40 degrees and mabe ill get the hip boots out and walk down the river for awhile with it. Hope you did well this past season and good luck if you happen to get an early break and get out. Id like to get up to the northwest territory but I dont know how much of a hassle it is to cross the border with a metal detector sluicebox and back to the States. I have my passport and proper I'd. I dont want to get hasseled for trying to have fun crossing the border. If you have any info on this topic Lanny could you bring me up to running speed? I would like to learn more. Take good care Lanny and thanks, Budrow....

 

[Lanny in AB]

Budrow,

Your best bet is to phone the border and ask them. I've seen other guys bring up prospecting equipment, and I think as long as it's small-scale, there's probably not a problem, but it's always best to check before you set out on an expedition. I'd like to get up to the Yukon one day--that's still on my gold-hunting bucket list, and I know they have different mining rules there from the ones they have here. Every province and territory is a little bit different, so it's always best to know before you go. So, decide exactly where you want to go, then call them--that always works out the best for me--that way there's no big disappointments.

If you need more information, PM me and I'll be glad to do what I can.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[budrow]

Lanny, Thanks for the heads up, I get a chance I'll call and find out whats what and if they come up with something to beware of I'll let you know. Have a fine day, Budrow....

 

[Lanny in AB]

Nuggets in the bedrock tip:

The more questions people ask me about detecting, particularly beginning and even intermediate nugget shooters, the more convinced I am of the importance of nugget hunters ensuring that their detectors are properly ground balanced.

It's amazing the difference it makes when a dedicated gold hunting machine is even partially out of balance (it can't "see" the gold); what's amazing is how easily the machine will ignore the gold and pay attention to the ground mineralization instead (there's usually a lot of ground mineralization in gold country, especially when nuggets are collecting in a patch).

In fact, it becomes very critical when you're detecting on bedrock, particularly when the bedrock is "hot" or when it's conductive (differing issues, but both problematic). When it's hot, the nature of the bedrock will automatically rule out the use of some VLF machines, and when it's extremely hot, you've usually only got a chance with a dedicated gold detecting pulse machine.

When the ground is conductive as well, it takes a different approach to balancing the machine by ensuring that the machine has the capability to operate in such ground or the machine will constantly react to the conductivity (which can drive your ears crazy). If, as well, the ground is "hot", you've got double trouble when it comes to balancing the machine.

I've dug nuggets out of "hot" bedrock, and out of conductive bedrock. I've seen people trying to detect in such conditions with their machines so far out of balance that all they could get a signal on was a nail or a chunk of cast iron very close to the surface. The machine has to be balanced properly or you're defeating your machine's capabilities before you ever start swinging the coil. In other words, you're killing your chances of "seeing" the gold.

In the old days, you used to pack different coils to deal with conductivity, and different coils to deal with mineralization, but with the GPX 5000, you very rarely have to use even a DD coil any more--the electronics will allow you to run mono coils most of the time, and that translates into more depth when it comes to hitting targets.

Nevertheless, last summer I had to use a DD on a very hot patch of ground, and to go very slow, but it turned up some beautiful gold. Luckily the gold was only down about six inches. (Several people had previously hammered the same ground with VLF's but they couldn't handle the mineralization, and so gave up on the area.) However, since then I've learned more about balancing my machine, and I wonder if I wouldn't have been able to run a mono to find that gold if I'd have properly balanced the machine--that's how critical balancing is--you may actually dumb down your machine and not allow it to perform at peak capacity by not having all of the knowledge or skills to balance it effectively. In other words, I may have left some deep gold in that extreme bedrock, and now its' buried forever.

I'm always researching, asking questions, buying new support material, and trying to apply the learning to my detecting. It's a constant process.

As I've advised some beginners recently--read and reread your manual until you are comfortable and familiar with every aspect of your machine's capabilities. As well, read and reread until you know what you, as the operator, need to know to interact with your machine properly to allow it to perform at the peak of its capabilities (not dumb it down). Often (myself included ) I'll unwittingly hinder my machine's capabilities by not being well enough informed in a technical sense, thus defeating the technology of the machine with my own ignorance.

But, back to my original point: knowing how to properly ground balance your machine will make a huge difference in finding gold--in fact, it may be THE difference. Without proper ground balance, you'll hear all kinds of trash signals, and walk right over the gold that's there in the same patch of ground. That's one of the reasons I'm still a little hesitant to encourage nugget hunters to get addicted to auto ground balance: it has its purpose for sure, especially for beginners, but it's only a program and it was never intended to compensate for every condition in the gold fields. Nonetheless, if you get completely hooked on it, I believe you'll miss gold that could certainly be in your poke.

If you're hunting in manual mode, frequently pump your coil to ensure you're still balanced, and if you're in "hot" ground, or conductive ground, ensure that you have the machine as finely tuned as possible. Slow down, and check every disturbance in the threshold by balancing away from the area of disturbance (or faint target signal), and then scan the area again. This will often produce a stronger signal, if it's a target (you can use your boost or enhance features in this case as well.), or when the machine is precisely balanced, it will null out the disturbance if it's not a desirable target (I watched a pro go through this process numerous times last summer, and he's found pounds and pounds of nuggets).

All the best,

Lanny

 

[EagleDown]

Halito Lanny,

I'd give this lesson a resounding, absolute YES!! The last trip I made to the Merced River,
I forgot to take along my owners guide, much to my chagrin. After finding that the grass
was still too high to detect where I really wanted to, I spent a couple of hours in what I
thought might turn up something to no avail. So, I decided to try a spot right on the side
of the road where after a good rain, I had picked up a couple of small nuggets, (several
times) over the course of 3 years. These "pickers" were just laying there waiting for me to
come along and take them home.

But, as fate would have it, there were none exposed this time. So, since I didn't have the
manual for guidance, I (thought I) ground balanced it pretty good. Boy was I wrong. I
swept the area slowly, but being within three or four feet of where the train rails use
to be, the sound and the VDI were bouncing all over the place. I did get a VDI for gold
in several spots, but the slightest movement of the coil would bounce it back to an iron
reading. Consequently, I found it impossible to pin-point where the gold was.

Fortunately, the gold is still there and I'll be going back up when it warms up a little, because
when I got back home and read the manual, I found I had forgotten a couple of important
settings I should have used. Both applied to the ground balance. But, I'll know better the
next time.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll print out your tips and put another page in my owners manual.
And, the next trip, I'll make sure the manual is in the car.

Eagle

 

[Lanny in AB]

A big thanks Eagle, and a big two thumbs up on your reminder to always pack the manual with you into the field. I've always got mine along as there always seems to be something you need to look up--you've provided a great tip and an essential reminder.

Thanks again, and all the best,

Lanny

 

[63bkpkr]

Ahh manuals in the field, where would we be without them!? Besides they can also be used for TP and firestarters.

Just an FYI on the latest plans for prospecting - As of this evening I've purchased or ordered everything in the way of equipment I was lacking though at the last minute I had to leave out the Sherman Tank. It would have been a lot of fun but it will not fit down the trails I hike. As long as the winter here in NorCal continues to be mild I expect I will be out in the mountains in mid to late March.

I decided to go with basic equipment first and then to upgrade as the site proved worth doing so. Upgrading would be done to make the processing of raw materials go faster. Also going with a basic setup rather than the best simply costs A Whole Lot Less. {I should note here that this is not my typical style however, current circumstances do not allow me to purchase the best of the best just for an adventure} In the High Banking section I've posted some equipment notes that will make up the "basic" items for this 2012 first outing. Of course with having commited to the adventure by purchasing equipment I've pulled the handle on the slot machine of life, the dials are spinning and we will see what the outcome is in a month or so. I intend to have the GMT with me for all sorts of guidance and soils checking as it is the fastest way to check raw dirt to "hear" if it contains any likely targets BEFORE going any further with it. In the past I've found this method to be quite helpful.

I will post pictures of the final system with all of its varied pieces once I have all of them together. Till then, go have an adventure...............63bkpkr

 

[Lanny in AB]

63,

So great to hear from you again. I'm glad you made a decision on your equipment capabilities--what works, works, and that will keep you feeling good about your decision the entire time. I'm sure you'll find more gold this season than last--all that experience will pay off--plus--you're in some of the best gold country that there is, period.

Too bad you couldn't find a way to get a Sherman--the boys and I found one in Vegas a few years ago, in a scrap yard of sorts, and it was still running! Wouldn't that be something so see that mass of metal heading along a logging road heading into gold country?!

I'm glad you pulled the handle on the slot machine of life--taking risk is far more interesting than being reckless, and I've read enough of your posts to know that you're off on a well-planned risk adventure.

Keep us updated on your adventures--wish I had the capability to tag along with you--we'd bank some first-class adventures for sure.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[63bkpkr]

Yes, the Sherman would be a real gas as a play toy! Back in the late 50's in Illinois I watched as the barrels were cut off of a bunch of surplus tanks that were likely all headed to the smelter in Rock Falls. I almost cried to see those "Toys" being ruined. Hey guess what, its finally winter in California! All the supplies have been ordered so for now the plan stays the same and we will just see what the weather is doing in a month and then I will decide what to do.

On the plus side of being me, I've lost a bit more weight and am feeling really good. The handyman job has kept me busy as well as working hard so I'd have to think I'm in OK condition and all of that is good news for what I'm planning on doing.

How is it that tomorrow is Wednesday again or already or so soon! I guess time really flies when one is having fun....Cheers...63bkpkr

 

[Lanny in AB]

63,

Congrats on gettin' down to your fightin' weight--all of that physical work can't do anything but help get you ready for the prospecting season. We haven't had much of a winter here either, but now we're getting a little snow.

When you're out looking for the gold this season, remember to haunt the places the Oldtimers worked--there's still lots of gold left that they missed, especially when a prospector uses modern technology to solve the riddles. Give that detector a good workout--check out the sides of prospect holes (and throw-out piles). It's amazing what got thrown out in the frenzy to dig to bedrock. As well, if you're observant, you may notice some leveled areas in worked gold fields; those areas may be where a building stood, and it may still be virgin ground underneath. And, if it was a rich deposit they worked, that little spot that was under a shed or cabin could be well worth the effort to sample. Tiny strips of ground that were missed by the Oldtimers, for whatever the reason (virgin ground buried when they started an excavation, etc), are sometimes great little bonanzas.

So, be alert to any formation or arrangement of land that's not made by nature and investigate it. As well, with your detector, hammer any exposed bedrock you find, and don't be afraid to move overburden to get to shallow bedrock either--you'll be amazed at what you can sniff out with your machine that the Sourdoughs had no chance of recovering.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[63bkpkr]

Re: Bedrock and Gold: The mysteries . . .& Being A Lert

Hi Lanny,
The weather here has turned 'very spring' or, from one day to the next one does not know what it will do. 70 one day snow the next. But 70 again in a day or two so the snow does not stay. The rivers are therefore seeing some higher flows but nowhere near the usual amount for this time of year.

Yes, unusual spots are soooo good to check out! I've been thinking that my forays into the hills for firewood will take me into some of those 'possible spots'. And then I have a spot on the river that I worked at last year to prep it for investigation. I found a super large boulder that is a natural riffle and I'm planning on moving all the rubbble from it on the down-river side. It will be interesting to see what is there!

I will post soon on my findings concerning Agenda 21. I will say now that it is Real and therefore scary for any freedom loving person or country..........63bkpkr

 

[Lanny in AB]

63,

I hope you find some good stuff under that boulder--it's a ton of work, but sometimes it can produce a genuine bonanza. I hope so for you.

Good luck on your forest outings and excursions as well.

All the best,

Lanny