Bell?Andice?

[wtgwayne]

Here is a point that i found saturday at the sand hill in west texas plus the metate.
It was just laying on the top of the sand.

 

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[naturegirl]

OMG! that's beautiful! wow! I guess the drought/high winds uncovered it? I don't know anything about Bell, but it's got a constricting base like an Andice. Cool Find!!!

 

[naturegirl]

Aren't Bell's "fatter" than Andice's?

 

[Felinepeachy]

OMG!!!!!!!!!

That is absolutely fantastic!!!!

 

[naturegirl]

it is! I voted Banner!!!

 

[chong2]

Killer ! Look up "smith" , manchu can show you pics

 

[Neanderthal]

It's not Smith. Smith are a basal notched point found primarily in the Ozarks.

I don't really think it's Bell or even related to the Calf Creek Complex. The majority of points from that area that I see identified as Bell, aren't. While there ARE true "Bell" points, they are actually pretty rare. As with other Calf Creek cultural points, they are pretty finely made and have punched notches.

I believe there's a possibility that your point could be a Shumla knife, or at least associated with the Round Rock phase in that area. I have seen a few larger points, like yours, that were found with Shumla in TX (Shewey Coll) as well as some from NM (Perino's).

Additional useless info: I was approached with a hafted knife 4-5 years back at the Green Country artifact show. It was from a dry shelter in West TX and consisted of a medium sized basal notched point hafted in a deer leg bone, wrapped with cordage and sealed with asphaltum. I SWORE the piece was Calf Creek, it looked CC all of the way! CT Scans were done of the piece and showed the point in all clarity. The hafted flint point is not Calf Creek at all....it's Shumla.

 

[MANCHU]

it is! I voted Banner!!!

That is a killer artifact !!!!! Great job WTG !!! I VOTE BANNER !!!!

 

[Americus]

Wow! What a find. I know it made your day (or week, or month, or year). Thanks for sharing.

 

[wtgwayne]

Thanks everyone, the work on the sides are like the bell when you look at one side is worked up and the other side worked down you can kinda see in the photo, but what every it is i love it, the biggest point that i have ever found, and it made my day!

 

[JUNKYARD DOG]

big and beautiful. thats a kick a$$ find. JYD...

 

[tmodel]

mighty pretty point would really love to have one like it, but then i think it may be one of a kind. Neanderthal!! is it possable that this point could have been made by reworking napping notches into a Refugio or Lerma leaf shaped point, copping one of the others. to me it matches the shape of these two better than any thing else i have found take away the notches. if you do not agree please give me a link to somethink on the net that is better than projectile point .com been out of work to long to buy books.

 

[rob.s]

Sweet point!!

 

[Neanderthal]

mighty pretty point would really love to have one like it, but then i think it may be one of a kind. Neanderthal!! is it possable that this point could have been made by reworking napping notches into a Refugio or Lerma leaf shaped point, copping one of the others. to me it matches the shape of these two better than any thing else i have found take away the notches. if you do not agree please give me a link to somethink on the net that is better than projectile point .com been out of work to long to buy books.

No, both Refugio and Lerma are far more slender than that point. I know the person who made projectilepoints.net means well, but the misinformation on that site is doing nobody any good. In fact, it may be doing more harm than good. Art Gumbus' site (lithicsnet.com) is better, and I recommend checking out the arrowheads1 forum at http://www.arrowheads1.com/board/index.php. There is a section of the arrowheads1 forum that has reference material from ALL regions and accurate typology for each of these regions is in the works.

Ask Santa to bring you some hard-copy reference material, it will be the best (artifact related) money you can spend. I recommend starting out with the Bell / Perino guides, they are by far the best bang-for-the-buck a person can get if you're into typology from all over the U.S.

 

[natchitoches]

could we get some more pictures of it.
and a few close up of the flakes
the flaking looks odd to me.

 

[Neogeo]

It's not Smith. Smith are a basal notched point found primarily in the Ozarks.

I don't really think it's Bell or even related to the Calf Creek Complex. The majority of points from that area that I see identified as Bell, aren't. While there ARE true "Bell" points, they are actually pretty rare. As with other Calf Creek cultural points, they are pretty finely made and have punched notches.

I believe there's a possibility that your point could be a Shumla knife, or at least associated with the Round Rock phase in that area. I have seen a few larger points, like yours, that were found with Shumla in TX (Shewey Coll) as well as some from NM (Perino's).

Additional useless info: I was approached with a hafted knife 4-5 years back at the Green Country artifact show. It was from a dry shelter in West TX and consisted of a medium sized basal notched point hafted in a deer leg bone, wrapped with cordage and sealed with asphaltum. I SWORE the piece was Calf Creek, it looked CC all of the way! CT Scans were done of the piece and showed the point in all clarity. The hafted flint point is not Calf Creek at all....it's Shumla.

Shumla all the way.
Note: The barbs turning slightly inward.Nice Find

 

[pickaway]

WoW what a great find congrats.