Best detector for trashy areas

[bigtime400]

I have been thinking about buying a minelab explorer for a while now but every time I research I find something I dont know or steers me away. I want to hunt around old farms houses and parks..... I would imagine these areas are pretty trashy with roofing nails etc. But alot of it is probably deep I bet.... they are old houses. I thought the minelab had the best descrimination for detectors but the recovery seems to be a bit slow from what I was reading. Any suggestions?

 

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[SamsSon]

I have been thinking about buying a minelab explorer for a while now but every time I research I find something I dont know or steers me away. I want to hunt around old farms houses and parks..... I would imagine these areas are pretty trashy with roofing nails etc. But alot of it is probably deep I bet.... they are old houses. I thought the minelab had the best descrimination for detectors but the recovery seems to be a bit slow from what I was reading. Any suggestions?

Right now I'd vote for the Minelab GT. Some others would also be good.

I'm experimenting with a cheap detector right now and so far I like it better than the GT or SE. It seems to totally ignore nails (so far) and hits hard on coins down to about 6 inches deep (5 inches fresh buried). It's a tone machine and is dead on even with large iron. I mean you don't get a coin tone on large iron and you dig zero tiny nails. I do very little digging and it's mega fast plus light as a feather.

But it costs under $100 so you probably wouldn't be interested. THers don't trust a machine unless it costs a lot.

To save you PMing me, it's the #GC1023 detector sold on ebay. But go ahead and spend $700 for a GT.

 

[Schrecky]

I really like my DFX for those conditons. Besides discrimination adjustments, changes to the frequency you use (Correlate works great in trash), Recover Speed, Filters and Sensitivity can be helpful.

Another place where the DFX shines is in the number of coils that are available to use, at least a dozen. In high trash areas a small coil can be a great tool. Since they "see" less ground per swing you can pick your way around multiple targets that are close together. http://www.dfxonly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5650&highlight=

And finally, to ID the target in the ground you have three tools on the DFX display: VDI #, SignaGraph bar graph, and Tone ID with excellent depth readings on the stock 9 1/2" coil.

 

[thompy]

teknetics t-2, fisher f-75, or f-70, all built with the super fast processor, the DD coils on them seperate very well, and the t-2 handles the iron very well, an expanded iron disc. over the f-75, and might add they are deep machines

 

[bigtime400]

so then wouldnt that mean the explorer is bad at discrimination?? Im getting kinda confused on this stuff.

 

[TOWcritter]

I love my Whites MXT with the 5 Inch excellerator coil. Finds a coin right next to a rusty nail.

 

[thompy]

i believe the exp. to have great disc never used one but have watched them being worked, i personally don,t think i have the patience to work them that slow, having said that , i do want to try the sovereign some time. the reason i bought the t-2 is kind of like you, looking to find the good stuff in old iron ladden ground. my sites more or less 1860's through 1890's, tons of nails, lots of scrap metal, cast iron. very little modern trash. i ran a Whites QXT great relic machine, for a couple years, pretty fast responce when running no disc, just set it up for low tone on iron and high for the rest, but square nails and some rusted iron would rap around and come in high, decided on the MXT, because there is a chance of gold being found as well, read up on the t-2, sounded similar to the MXT, with more options as far as # of tones, very fast reset time on targets, not very fussy on sweep speed, and handles iron great, i still like to run 2 tones, some times you get a high tone on iron, but it always seems to give an iron grunt as you come off the target, good audio modulation, not as good as my QXT's but very good still, and is by far the most comfortable and light machine i have swung so far

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bigtime400, you're mixing up concepts. "Discrimination" and "target separation", and "see through ability" (aka "target averaging ability") are three different things. So for example: a machine may reject a nail (or foil or tab, or whatever you've set it up at) excellently, all day long. However, if a coin were *under* that nail, or close beside that nail, you might get a masking effect, and miss the coin. Do you see how the machine did not lack the ability to pass the nail, so therefore, you can say it was "good at discrimination"? The problem comes in when you start talking about masking.

Then there are machines that do a great knife-point job at target separation and discrimination both at the same time (albeit you have to interpret some clicks and clacks). Those are typically your 2-filter detectors, like the Whites Classic, shadow X2, various Tesoro's, etc... The trouble with those is that ... while they are great for getting targets close to disc'd out items, the trade-off is, that they are not power-house deep seekers.

The 3rd category of "seeing through" varies from machine to machine. Ie.: can you put a nail OVER (not next to) a coin, and still get a good signal? Note: of course the TID will be skewed, but can you at least discern that there is a conductive target there, or has it gone totally silent now? Usually the 2-filter machines are also good at this test too, but it varies from machine to machine, and this 3rd point entails a lot of operator interpretation, in addition to the machine.

The usual rule of thumb is that the deeper-seeking a machine is (Explorer, CZ6, etc...) the worse they are at target separation and masking (but can be good at "discrimination" though!) The deeper seeking machines are simply "seeing" more ground in each pass, so it's inherent that they are seeing more targets at a time, than a knife-blade less sensitive machine is seeing. So there is less to sort out on the one machine, verses the other. Speed of processing also plays into it.

Personally, I think the Explorer, given it's great depth on coins, is a darn good compromise on all fronts. I even use it (with small 5" coil anyhow), for iron-riddled demolition site hunting. But sure, if a site is very nasty, I grab a shadow X2 or even my Compass 77b.

You might also check out the Minelab Musketeer. It has nearly the depth (?) of the Sov and Exp, but has better ability in target separation and masking. It lacks the other bells and whistles (like the expanded tone ID of the Exp, etc...), so that's the trade-off. A friend of mine had the Musketeer, and we tested it in a variety of situations. As long as you had the disc. set low, so as just to reject iron (ie.: relicky mindset hunting), the Musketeer effortlessly would get signals on coins next to, and sometimes even under a nail (depending on the positioning, size of nail, etc...). And if we rejected foil or tabs, and then put a penny or dime under the foil or tab, it would get a signal no problem. That is, it averages the targets together, for a net-positive signal, well.

 

[crazyman]

I will have to agree with Tom on the Minelab Musky. 90% of my hunting is iron infested areas like old lumber mill ghost towns, logging camps, old saltwater dock sites and old ferry landings. Not many detectors can handle these areas. The Musky has the fastest recovery speed of any detector I've used. The iron discrimination is perfect in that it doesn't null out iron but lets it partially break thru on the discrimination with spits and sputters. Set up right and it will not beep on iron of any size. I very rarely dig any iron with the Musky. You can swing it fast or you can go at a snails pace without loosing depth. Depth is excellent and in really bad ground will beat or at least match any of the depth demons like the CZ's and Sovereigns. In almost 30 years of detecting I have not found a detector that will pull good targets out of iron better than the Musky. The Wilson Coin Select is a close second in the iron. Another thing about the Musky is that it works excellent on our hotrock infested black sand beaches here in the Pacific Northwest and is surprisingly sensitive to small gold rings for a low freq. detector. I sold all my other detectors and use the Musky's for all of my hunting now.

 

[bigtime400]

Intresting stuff. I really wanted an explorer because I have heard its one of the best for deep targets. Where I plan on hunting is a bunch of my relatives farms that are as old as the 1870s and maybe even older. The deepness would be an asset I belive because alot of dirt gets moved around and packed down from tractors etc so I figure alot of stuff is probably pretty deep. They have old outhouse sites, and graves etc........ Going to stay away from the graves though... thats creepy. But on the other hand I bet there is alot of trash.... especially iron. Some of these detectors you guys are mentioning I have never heard of before. I havent really looked at any fishers, bounty hunters, or terseros. Just the whites dfx, explorer, sov, and some Garrets. But that was before when I was getting the discrim. and seperation confused. But would the explorer work better with a smaller coil? I am under the impression that everyone thinks their dectector is the best to have so its hard to decide. But I kinda expected that. Any that I should defiently avoid?

 

[txkickergirl]

There is no one detector that is best for trash...we all have our favorite brands, but the reason they are our favorites are because we have taken the time to learn them. The explorer from what I hear has a steep learning curve. The basic bottom line is you will dig trash and lots of it in fact buckets of it. Its just the nature of this hobby. Months down the line you will be able to start telling a difference in sound over trash and can discriminate it out that way. My only recommendation is to invest in a small coil also, I get depth of over 6" with mine and it is so much easier to pick through trashy areas with a small coil. With the stock coil hitting a trashy area is just going to give you a major headache from all the noise. If you are dedicated to learning it and you can afford it there is no reason for you not to go with the explorer. Its a great machine that if you will put in the time and effort to really learn it you will come out with some amazing finds.

Just remember one final note...I can't verify this as fact cause I have never found one, but ask those that have found a gold coin, how it sounded and what it read on there machine. I have head that most come up in a pull tab range.

 

[liquid1]

F75 with the added small coil for the tight places..the stock DD loop is hard to beat..the machine is fast as lightning...light and the Batts last forever..

 

[Sandman]

Tom gave a very good list of reasons to explain the differences.

The Smaller coil has a smaller field so there is less chance of getting more than one target under the coil. It is important to have a detector that supports many different size coils for different jobs or locations.

Suggest you visit the manufactures web sites to learn more about the various detectors that were mentioned and how the coils work.

Are there any you should stay away from, I'd say any not made by Garrett, Minelab, Tesoro or Whites. Troy makes a fair one too as does Nautilus

 

[Iron Patch]

Some very good posts on this thread and I'd say are bang on. The Explorer has great disc. and can see good targets mixed with bad, and something like an F-75 with fast response is good at hitting target after target with its good separation. One other point that I don't think was mentioned but do believe to be true, is these faster units can skip to the next signal too quick under analyzing the deeper stuff so it is easily missed, or reads iron. Agree or disagree?

 

[thompy]

iron patch, ive got my doughts about the f-75 and t-2 missing targets, i think alot of people have gotten rid of their machines, because there noisy, but in reality, there not use to a machine seeing so much in the ground, if targets are getting missed i think its the brain not keeping up with the machine, of coarse you can slow down, they are not real speed sensitive, but give there best reading with a full faster sweep over the target.

 

[Iron Patch]

iron patch, ive got my doughts about the f-75 and t-2 missing targets, i think alot of people have gotten rid of their machines, because there noisy, but in reality, there not use to a machine seeing so much in the ground, if targets are getting missed i think its the brain not keeping up with the machine, of coarse you can slow down, they are not real speed sensitive, but give there best reading with a full faster sweep over the target.

But what I'm saying goes back to the post above stating discrimination and separation are two different things. My point is I think better disc. beats faster separation when it comes to deep targets. People say the Minelab is slow but several times I have shown people a good deep target in iron that they couldn't hear with their faster responding detector.

I think I have these conversations twice a year, when the temps. are -30 and when they're +30.

 

[Don in SJ]

The top of the line detectors are good, and there are slight differences between each one, but of course we all know experience with your machine is what makes your detector the best.

Iron Patch's statement about discrimination and separation deserves some thought. Fast sweep needed on certain brands may not necessarily be a good thing, since deep targets mixed in with iron are most likely missed, IMHO.

The statement that Minelab Explorer has a steep learning curve is really not true, it is basically a turn on an go detector! ( I turn on the Explorer and about 10 seconds later I start swinging, my son turns on his Fisher, then ground balances, then starts swinging.
The DFX on the other hand, a great detector, but a steep learning curve to be able to use the other functions, which I think if I owned one I probably would most likely not use 99% of the time.

I think my finds, and others with the Minelab speak for themselves and I have been using the same original Explorer XS since December 2000, without one electronic failure or problem. Only coils getting beat to death by me being a thick underbrush/woods hunting detectorist.

I do hunt with my son who uses a Fisher CZ-70, which does go deep but does have trouble with iron reading as a good target much more than my Explorer does, but both, in general, go as deep as needed, but I still give the edge to the Minelab for a bit more depth(Stock coil slightly larger, but ML 8 inch coil equal in depth to stock Fisher coil). Also, Explorer is great hunting around power lines and also no ground balance necessary!

Bottom line if the original poster can afford the Minelab Explorer, you will be getting those deep targets, if there are deep targets to be found.

Don

 

[thompy]

i figure each to his own, i have seen the exp II in action, and was impressed , like i mentioned i started on the 2 filter whites, ive wanted a soverign, and thought about the quattro, but really feel that i would have a hard time slowing down that much, i may be missing something but feel pretty confident in my t-2, in my area i dont really find a lot of deep targets. there are many machines out there to fill personal needs. i loved my qxt, which was built to compete with the cz-7, but also like iron as the cz, one reason i never tryed the cz. i havent statted the t-2 is better, just effective and different than others, if looking for deep old silver i think the exp. is the way to go, i rellic hunt, trashy iron sites, little modern trash involved

 

[Iron Patch]

i figure each to his own, i have seen the exp II in action, and was impressed , like i mentioned i started on the 2 filter whites, ive wanted a soverign, and thought about the quattro, but really feel that i would have a hard time slowing down that much, i may be missing something but feel pretty confident in my t-2, in my area i dont really find a lot of deep targets. there are many machines out there to fill personal needs. i loved my qxt, which was built to compete with the cz-7, but also like iron as the cz, one reason i never tryed the cz. i havent statted the t-2 is better, just effective and different than others, if looking for deep old silver i think the exp. is the way to go, i rellic hunt, trashy iron sites, little modern trash involved

Sounds like your view on the Explorer is incorrect and the way many others think too. It's the same as other units, if there isn't much trash you can pick up the pace, but if your around iron you have to slow things down. It sounds like we hunt the same type of sites and I can't imagine you fly through with a T2 or CZ? ..and if you do, you don't think you're not leaving targets behind? I have a friend who likes to cover ground and damn near gets airborne with the explorer and he still finds lots of targets. I stopped trying to tell him to slow down because he is happy with his results. If the Explorer is mainly for silver it sure isn't doing it's job for me as my Rev War buttons for the year out number my silver 4-2 and one coin was an out of place 1947 quarter, the other not even a coin signal. I've tried and tested against many detectors since starting to use the Explorer and nothing does as good over all for my hunting. Just like everyone else I use what works for me.

 

[bazinga]

i figure each to his own, i have seen the exp II in action, and was impressed , like i mentioned i started on the 2 filter whites, ive wanted a soverign, and thought about the quattro, but really feel that i would have a hard time slowing down that much, i may be missing something but feel pretty confident in my t-2, in my area i dont really find a lot of deep targets. there are many machines out there to fill personal needs. i loved my qxt, which was built to compete with the cz-7, but also like iron as the cz, one reason i never tryed the cz. i havent statted the t-2 is better, just effective and different than others, if looking for deep old silver i think the exp. is the way to go, i rellic hunt, trashy iron sites, little modern trash involved

Sounds like your view on the Explorer is incorrect and the way many others think too. It's the same as other units, if there isn't much trash you can pick up the pace, but if your around iron you have to slow things down. It sounds like we hunt the same type of sites and I can't imagine you fly through with a T2 or CZ? ..and if you do, you don't think you're not leaving targets behind? I have a friend who likes to cover ground and damn near gets airborne with the explorer and he still finds lots of targets. I stopped trying to tell him to slow down because he is happy with his results. If the Explorer is mainly for silver it sure isn't doing it's job for me as my Rev War buttons for the year out number my silver 4-2 and one coin was an out of place 1947 quarter, the other not even a coin signal. I've tried and tested against many detectors since starting to use the Explorer and nothing does as good over all for my hunting. Just like everyone else I use what works for me.

I agree that he must have been watching somebody who was afraid to move the Explorer too quickly and has heard too many people say 'when you think you are going really slow, then slow down a bit more' about the Explorer. I swing mine at a pretty good clip. Certainly I'm nowhere near what I've seen some White's guys go at, but I move at what I consider a pretty fast pace and pluck out my fair share of silver, indians, and wheats.

In just 10 hunts I have dug 198 GOOD targets this years. Take off 3 anomaly / short / experimental hunts and I have dug 190 GOOD targets in just 7 hunts, for an average of 27.14 old coins or silver jewelry per hunt. And these are not shallow junk targets, these are all DEEP hits that other detectors obviously passed over due to being too deep, on edge, going too quickly, or just now knowing their machine well enough to recognize a good targets laying in a field of nails.

If I am finding exceptionally deep / old coins in any area I will grid it again a 2nd time from a different angle and slow down to turtle speed and occasionally another find will surface, but more often than not I've gotten all I could find with my machine and its current settings.