Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[bigscoop]

While Bigscoop takes on this magical misery history tour with all the dangling one liners and open ended questions, which he cleverly employs to dismiss valid remarks of others that question these "everyone who was alive in 1812 to 1825 is a part of the Beale story, no solid real "connexions" are ever produced.

No where in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward is a mention of the Adams-Onis Treaty, a Saint Louis Corporation, Galveston, New Orleans, Jean Lafitte, Patterson, Girard, pirates, slavery, the Merchants & Planters Hotel and the Washington Hotel being used as a Holiday Inn Express for the slave trade, and no sea voyages or mention of Captain Mathew "Mexico" Sherman and the good ship TORPEDO.
While all the above did exist at one time , the only "connexion" to the Beale story exists in the unlimited imagination of one who can create an entire connective history from one word or vague reference that can be found in the 1885 dime novel job pamphlet.

Go back and review all that you just posted, then review these threads, now remove from what you just posted that I didn't introduce into this thread. Patterson, Girard, the Torpedo, Mexico Sherman, pirates, Holiday Inns? Now you've certainly continued to introduced these elements, but I think you'll discover that I've not. I also think you'll discover that Morriss's Hotel and St. Louis are directly referenced in the narration, so now where is that leaving your "highly imaginary", "highly researched", and "highly inaccurate" summation? "To arms! To Arms! At all cost and at any extreme, Save Virginia! Save Virginia!"

 

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[bigscoop]

What author, what book, and what does this have to do with the Beale story?
Always with the dangling one liners that are never explained, Bigscoop.

Dang dude, have you even read the memoirs, yet? I'm betting you're the only remaining soul who can't make this obvious connexion.
Some of you guys are so lost and so confined in all of your local lore and romance it all just becomes far too complicated and completely out of your reach when things go beyond those extremely protected and highly promoted borders. Probably why these forums are always being directed back to those same old areas. Are you guys getting kickbacks from that county?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yes, Virginia... there IS a Santa Claus & his Alien Goats.

 

[ECS]

Dang dude, have you even read the memoirs, yet? I'm betting you're the only remaining soul who can't make this obvious connexion...

What part of forged memoirs do you not understand?
...and how they can not be considered as evidence.

 

[ECS]

Go back and review all that you just posted, then review these threads, now remove from what you just posted that I didn't introduce into this thread. Patterson, Girard, the Torpedo, Mexico Sherman, pirates, Holiday Inns? Now you've certainly continued to introduced these elements, but I think you'll discover that I've not. I also think you'll discover that Morriss's Hotel and St. Louis are directly referenced in the narration, so now where is that leaving your "highly imaginary", "highly researched", and "highly inaccurate" summation?...

Jean Lafitte was not a pirate? Have you not alluded to the illegal trade on Galveston and how those two hotels were used by slave traders? (Reckon you missed the Holiday Inn humor)
Yes, Morriss and St Louis are mentioned in the Beale tale of 1885, but NOT the Saint Louis Corporation.
So you are still presenting a "highly imaginary inaccurate" "connexion" to the details that are presented in the 1885 Beale Papers.
Previously you stated you had a major "bomb" to drop that would provide undeniable proof of your current "all in one" theory to the Beale story, so far what has been provided is a major bomb.

 

[bigscoop]

What part of forged memoirs do you not understand?
...and how they can not be considered as evidence.

And you have read the memoirs and personally researched many of those details in length, "yourself". Yes? If "yes" then let's debate your personal contrary knowledge as it pertains to "this thread", would love to do it. But if, "no"......

If I'm going to be wrong please let me be wrong by my own research efforts and opinions and not by the opinions of others whose true reasons and motives might remain unknown to me.

At last count you have made 68 post in this thread so far, none of which contain any of your own research in regards to the subject of theory which is this thread involves. This only makes you my #1 follower, is that what you're going for?

 

[ECS]

Well, Bigscoop, on another thread I informed you about Major James Beverly Risqué being with Andrew Jackson in Florida and his receiving a portion of those damage payments that were part of the Adams-Onis Treaty.
...and who was his grandson? Why it was the agent of copyright and publisher of the Beale Papers yet you have involved everyone else from that time period but neglect the Risqué extended bloodline "connexion" to the events in the Beale story.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, Bigscoop, on another thread I informed you about Major James Beverly Risqué being with Andrew Jackson in Florida and his receiving a portion of those damage payments that were part of the Adams-Onis Treaty.
...and who was his grandson? Why it was the agent of copyright and publisher of the Beale Papers yet you have involved everyone else from that time period but neglect the Risqué extended bloodline "connexion" to the events in the Beale story.

I've not ignored it at all, quite the opposite if you will recall, as I have, on several occasions, reminded you that I countered with, "just not as you image it to be." You do remember me posting that more then once, yes? Also, as I recall, on more then one occasion I have even reminded people that Thomas Beale was part of that extended bloodline if one desires to extend the bloodline that far, by way his sister's marriage into the Otey/Buford extended bloodlines, as I recall. You do remember that too, yes?

 

[ECS]

Yes, and it just supports the "all in the Family" events in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers narrative.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes, and it just supports the "all in the Family" events in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers narrative.

This is another area where we differ, just because we can establish the one or two or three individuals of a family might have been involved in something, either directly or indirectly, is no reason to set out convicting other members of the family. That's like picking up a dropped apple in an apple orchard and concluding that all of the apples on the ground came from one tree in that orchard.

 

[ECS]

With all this Lafitte Galveston slave trade "connexions" you are producing to the Beale "all in one theory" how did this complex convoluted tale make it to the "unknown author" who convinced Ward to copyright and publish this story that neither seem to have a "connexion" .

 

[bigscoop]

With all this Lafitte Galveston slave trade "connexions" you are producing to the Beale "all in one theory" how did this complex convoluted tale make it to the "unknown author" who convinced Ward to copyright and publish this story that neither seem to have a "connexion" .

As I've stated, and as is outlined in the narration, the author learned of it from Morriss during those alleged interviews, the Morriss and Ward relationship already well know to you. Both Morriss and Ward are indeed directly connected to the narration. Now if you're just general audience then you take all of this as presented, however, if you were someone with knowledge of the actual true events then you would have no problem making all the curiously familiar and requested connections. There's a reason why that publication was only produced to a limited area, because it was in that area where the author had his best chance of finding what he still needed. Maybe, and just as you discovered with Risque and his treaty payments, you might want to look for similar type curiosities that might exist with others in the general area before you completely discount those possibilities. The other thing you might look for is someone who survived about four miles from Buford's who was involved in banking and/or the legal profession.

 

[franklin]

Someone who survived? Someone who survived what exactly?

 

[bigscoop]

Someone who survived? Someone who survived what exactly?

"Lived"......

 

[bigscoop]

Risque and Beale have a duel, Beale soon departs for New Orleans after this event. Some years later Risque ends up with Jackson (on the government side of things), Beale ends up in New Orleans on the smuggler side of things. Duel over a girl? Hardly.

 

[franklin]

Risque and Beale have a duel, Beale soon departs for New Orleans after this event. Some years later Risque ends up with Jackson (on the government side of things), Beale ends up in New Orleans on the smuggler side of things. Duel over a girl? Hardly.

So do you have any documents to verify or is all this just your speculation and you are saying the historians are wrong? Well I say prove it.

 

[bigscoop]

So do you have any documents to verify or is all this just your speculation and you are saying the historians are wrong? Well I say prove it.

"Historians".....to which historians do you refer? I think that once you review all of these sources you'll discover that, at best, they might be able to say, "It was rumored to be over a girl" or that "it was speculated to be over a girl" or that "it is speculated to have been over family insult". Truth is that nobody knows all of the details as to what that duel was actually over.

 

[ECS]

... Now if you're just general audience then you take all of this as presented, however, if you were someone with knowledge of the actual true events then you would have no problem making all the curiously familiar and requested connections. There's a reason why that publication was only produced to a limited area, because it was in that area where the author had his best chance of finding what he still needed. Maybe, and just as you discovered with Risque and his treaty payments, you might want to look for similar type curiosities that might exist with others in the general area before you completely discount those possibilities. The other thing you might look for is someone who survived about four miles from Buford's who was involved in banking and/or the legal profession.

With this post are you now deserting you currently favored Adams-Onis Lafitte pirates of Galveston theory for the more logical "all in the family" connections to that Risqué extended bloodline?

Four miles from Buford's would have been a member of the Otey family, which includes Ward's wife and Sherman's mother.

 

[bigscoop]

With this post are you now deserting you currently favored Adams-Onis Lafitte pirates of Galveston theory for the more logical "all in the family" connections to that Risqué extended bloodline?

Four miles from Buford's would have been a member of the Otey family, which includes Ward's wife and Sherman's mother.

Again, once more, I have NEVER claimed that there might not be "an extended indirect or direct family connection", however, I HAVE, on several occasions, suggested to you that "if that connection existed then it wasn't/isn't as you imagine/imagined." So let's quit playing semantics and move on to your second inquiry in the above quote.

I'm simply suggesting to you that if the "four miles from Buford" claim is accurate then perhaps this statement is in reference to a person rather then the perceived location of an actual burial site loaded with treasure. "Deposits" can take on many meanings. "Deposits" can be made and then moved again, etc.

 

[ECS]

So, Bigscoop, are you referring to a member of the Otey family?
In addition to the Otey connection I mention in a previous post, Robert Morris and James Beverly Ward both had business interests with a member of the Otey family, and, an Otey WAS the manager of Lynchburg's Washington Hotel, where one Thomas J Beale was alleged to have stayed.