✅ SOLVED Button ID, possibly french? GR? inside of 8 pointed star

[mbcuce]

Dug this up on a site today, artifacts ranged from late 1700's to early 1800's with some modern but not much. Its very elaborate but I cant make out what it says. Pretty sure John Williams on the back and



Just figured out it says "Honi soit qui mal y pense" Its British around war of 1812 Still trying to figure out regiment

 

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[Retired Sarge]

Maybe British?

1767 ? 1783The British ArmyRoyal ArtilleryRegiment of Foot ? George Washington Inaugural Buttons

 

[mbcuce]

Maybe British?

1767 ? 1783The British ArmyRoyal ArtilleryRegiment of Foot ? George Washington Inaugural Buttons

I think you are right. I just found a similar button that was English Loyalist Volunteer Infantry but a different regiment. I think War of 1812 though.

 

[smokeythecat]

It is British for sure, and absolutely dates into the first quarter of the 19th Century. Before 1800 the Brits did not have backmarks on the buttons. Nice find.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I found your button's backmark at the UKDFD (United Kingdom Detector Finds Database) website, in the British button-backmarks list. According to the UKDFD's records, "John Williams" made buttons from 1791 to 1800, at a St. Martin's Lane address in London. The firm continued afterward into the early-1800s as Williams & Son. But it is reported to have only made Livery buttons during that period.
Button Makers and their backmarks n to z - ukdfd

Also… because your button's rayed, raised, 8 point star lacks a crown anywhere on it, your button predates the year 1812.

Also… I searched all the way through the hundreds of British Army button photos at the Colchester Treasure Hunters website, but did not find an exact match for your button, which has "GR" (Georgius Rex, for King George) in the center of the circled belt. A couple are an almost-exact match, having a rayed, raised, 8-point star around the circled belt, but don't have the GR on them. For example, one has KDG (for King's Dragoon Guards) instead of GR.
Militarynamedregs

 

[mbcuce]

Thanks everyone for the input. With these clues and help we found the exact button on an auction site. This is what they said "1st Regiment of Foot Guards George III late 18th century Officer's gilt flat-back coatee button.. A fine rare important example by John Williams. Garter Star with central 'GR' cypher with '1' above and 'Gds' below. Complete with shank. Slight service wear. Generally VGC (not recorded in Parkyn) (approx. 16 mm)."


https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bosleys-military-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srbos10006/lot-fcd4745e-f71f-4b32-92ff-a44a009c3321

Further research showed the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards came landed in NY during the revolution but were later sent south to attack Charleston so that fit.

We are really starting to tell the story of the land we have been hunting. This button and other loyalist buttons, RP with crown and Windsor Rose button make us think the family was loyalist during the revolution and later we find US military that date to war of 1812. We think the settlement relocated shortly thereafter.
Here is a better picture:

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Mbcuce wrote:
> Further research showed the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards came landed in NY during the revolution but were later sent south to attack Charleston so that fit.

Your British 1st Foot Guards regiment uniform button having an indented-lettering backmark means it was made well-after the American Revolution ended (in 1783). So, I suggest you look for info on that regiment's activity in the War-Of-1812.

 

[mbcuce]

Mbcuce wrote:
> Further research showed the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards came landed in NY during the revolution but were later sent south to attack Charleston so that fit.

Your British 1st Foot Guards regiment uniform button having an indented-lettering backmark means it was made well-after the American Revolution ended (in 1783). So, I suggest you look for info on that regiment's activity in the War-Of-1812.

From what I read they did not come to US in War of 1812. And John Williams button range on that one site stopped at 1800 so it is puzzling. It is just very coincidental that I found reference to a group of soldiers from this battalion were in the exact area at the end of the Revolution. I will keep looking though. Thanks for the feedback. The research is my favorite part of relic hunting.

 

[Lost Signal]

From what I read they did not come to US in War of 1812. And John Williams button range on that one site stopped at 1800 so it is puzzling. It is just very coincidental that I found reference to a group of soldiers from this battalion were in the exact area at the end of the Revolution. I will keep looking though. Thanks for the feedback. The research is my favorite part of relic hunting.

But, it also says that John Williams started making buttons in 1790 - after the Revolution. It's conceivable that the button traveled here during the War of 1812, even if the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards did not, but it still wouldn't make sense. mbcuce has also posted a very nice U. S. infantry button from the War of 1812, found at the same site. We've also found U.S. Navy buttons from the period between the two wars. Puzzling, indeed! Button hoarders?

 

[A2coins]

Amazing info wows and great button that's a nice display piece

 

[mbcuce]

But, it also says that John Williams started making buttons in 1790 - after the Revolution. It's conceivable that the button traveled here during the War of 1812, even if the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards did not, but it still wouldn't make sense. mbcuce has also posted a very nice U. S. infantry button from the War of 1812, found at the same site. We've also found U.S. Navy buttons from the period between the two wars. Puzzling, indeed! Button hoarders?

I won't age it based on that start date of 1790 though, that isnt a definitive list. Back marks also show up before and during the revolution so I don't think that can date it. There are buttons very similar to this one that date during the revolution, 5th Dragoon Guards dates back to 1780, so I'm not ruling it out.