CA Gold claim questions

[dustyboots]

I am fairly new to prospecting but have some questions regarding claims in California. I use landmatters to research areas to prospect and see what claims are in the area. From this you only get the 1/4 section where the claim is located. My question is regarding locating where a claim lies(Many unmarked or very poorly marked in my area). Is it the claim owners responsibility to mark a claim at least with location marker and 4 corners, possibly other markings as well? It seems as it would be as in California, as a property owner, to keep others from hunting your land you would need to both post and fence your land to keep others from hunting your land. Or if you wanted to keep free range cattle off your private property it would be your responsibility to fence them out. If claim owners are in fact real property owners why would this not be any different? It seems odd to make the fellow prospector know where claim boundaries lie when the claim owner would obviously have the best knowledge and ability to properly make boundaries. Without investing considerable time at the local county office and becoming somewhat of an amateur surveyor how does someone navigate claims especially when they are unmarked or marked very poorly? I am not talking for the purpose of staking my own claims right now but just for panning and prospecting in general. Thanks for any clarity anyone can add

 

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[n01d3x]

The only way to know is by going to the county and getting the maps for those claims. As a claim owner I do not believe you HAVE to mark your claim boundaries. You have different rights to a claim in regards to private property, than you do your house etc. For example, if your claim in on public property you can't keep people off of it, they just can't collect the minerals on the land.

 

[bcfromfl]

dustyboots, you ask a very good question. In this digital age, and since some individual claim information is ALREADY available online, there is absolutely no reason why the rough location map can't be posted as well. (How difficult would it be for the clerk to scan and upload to the same file?) Since I live all the way on the other side of the country, I just can't spend an afternoon in a county recorder's office in the region of my interest. I've had to order location maps (for a dollar a page) through the mail. It takes a clerk longer to fulfill my mailed request than to digitize it to begin with. Antiquated, to say the least!

 

[bobw53]

as a property owner, to keep others from hunting your land you would need to both post and fence your land to keep others from hunting your land. Or if you wanted to keep free range cattle off your private property

I think you are SLIGHTLY confused about what a mineral rights claim is.. Its a claim to the mineral rights... And the MINERAL RIGHTS only..

Somebody is going to be mighty pissed off if you fence off their GRAZING RIGHTS.

I can camp on your claim, I can shoot on your claim, I can ride a motorcycle on your claim, I can hike on your claim, I can hunt on your claim..

You DO NOT own the land, it IS NOT yours.. You have title to the mineral rights, that's it.

Here's a bunch of cows on my claim... They were eating grass on MY CLAIM, they **** on MY CLAIM.. And you know why they can do that, because
I only own the mineral rights, some other dude owns the grazing rights... I even fixed his fence for him this spring... Some nitwit was driving on
MY CLAIM, which is perfectly legal to do and drove through the ranchers fence (which probably isn't legal to do).. I didn't fix it well, but at least his
cows won't get out.. He doesn't ***** about what I do, I don't ***** about what he does. I've never even met the guy, but we SHARE the same land.

 

[bobw53]

As for knowing where claims are..

Its a mish-mash of federal, state and local... Its the way it was set up in 1872. Federal land, federal laws, also dealing with state laws and filed with the county...
Its a mess, but its what we have to work with, and if they updated it, I have a feeling none of us would be happy..

So YES, you DO HAVE TO GO TO THE COUNTY CLERK.. If you are lucky, the clerk will have documents online. Out here, the documents online are just a summary,
if you go there, they charge a dollar a page (I just take notes, they say you can't photograph the images on the screen)... OR!!! they will simply e-mail them
for FREE if you would prefer that...

DUE DILIGENCE.. Its is YOUR JOB to know where you are at all times... It is not somebody else's job to tell you where you are...

It can be a pain in the ass, but once you learn the system, and get to know the nice ladies down at the clerks office, it actually can be kind of fun,
and its not all that difficult once you figure it all out.

 

[mikep691]

While the State of Commiefornia does not require corner markers to be maintained, I still believe they must be erected and described on the Notice of Location. A location monument IS required and must be maintained. Bears continually rip my location post up and chew the plastic Mayo jar with the paperwork. I always replant it when I add my updated filings. But so many claims are literally paper claims, some have never even seen their ground much less plant a location monument.

 

[SUPERDAD]

Hey Dusty! The BIG issue on any claim is who owns the land! CA is very particular on trespass. The miners are required to initially mark their claim, but not to maintain the markings. In theory, no one is allowed to mess with them, but....

Gov't land, State land, Municipal Land...all have local laws that govern access. Privately owned land is different. If mineral rights have been leased, then the taking of any mineral is theft, in addition to trespass.

Having said all of that...the PCSC Prospector's Club of So. CA in Downey, has many claims across CA that they allow their members to use. The same is true for GPAA. (At least this used to be the case)

 

[et1955]

I think you are SLIGHTLY confused about what a mineral rights claim is.. Its a claim to the mineral rights... And the MINERAL RIGHTS only..

Somebody is going to be mighty pissed off if you fence off their GRAZING RIGHTS.

I can camp on your claim, I can shoot on your claim, I can ride a motorcycle on your claim, I can hike on your claim, I can hunt on your claim..

You DO NOT own the land, it IS NOT yours.. You have title to the mineral rights, that's it.

Here's a bunch of cows on my claim... They were eating grass on MY CLAIM, they **** on MY CLAIM.. And you know why they can do that, because
I only own the mineral rights, some other dude owns the grazing rights... I even fixed his fence for him this spring... Some nitwit was driving on
MY CLAIM, which is perfectly legal to do and drove through the ranchers fence (which probably isn't legal to do).. I didn't fix it well, but at least his
cows won't get out.. He doesn't ***** about what I do, I don't ***** about what he does. I've never even met the guy, but we SHARE the same land.

All true as you stated but your activity's on my claim must not interfere with my right to mine my claim and that includes if you are camping right where I want to dig you must move.

 

[bobw53]

All true as you stated but your activity's on my claim must not interfere with my right to mine my claim and that includes if you are camping right where I want to dig you must move.

VERY TRUE, but there is nothing stopping me from camping next to you and bringing you over a few cold beers.


I know you can fence off areas that are being actively mined, however I've never gotten to even near that point, so I haven't paid much attention.. I would assume a NOI or a POO
would be needed to get to that point...

 

[et1955]

VERY TRUE, but there is nothing stopping me from camping next to you and bringing you over a few cold beers.


I know you can fence off areas that are being actively mined, however I've never gotten to even near that point, so I haven't paid much attention.. I would assume a NOI or a POO
would be needed to get to that point...

No problem, lots of beer will be shared on both sides

 

[Hoser John]

blm.gov website has the manual to claims in California with all the info you could want and some you don't. Avaulable to purchase-usually-from any BLM branch office and pretty cheap. Maps, legaleze, how to and all inclusive with legal examples to follow-John

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

A location monument IS required and must be maintained.

I'd like to read the state law requiring that a location monument must be maintained in California, or that the papers need to be current.
I understood the location monument was the same thing as an discovery monument and served as initial public notice.

The claim description must be tied to a natural object or permanent monument, which I assume for most western claims is the PLSS system.

Can someone clarify?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Very good question, well stated dustyboots. Several members here have given you good guidance. Just to avoid confusion I'm including parts of the mining law below.

California Placer Claim Locations:

PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3900-3924

3902. The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following
manner:
(a) By erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous
and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a
notice of location containing all of the following:
(1) The name of the claim.
(2) The name, current mailing address or current residence
address, of the locator.
(3) The date of the location, which shall be the date of posting
the notice.
(4) The number of feet or acreage claimed.
(5) A description of the claim by reference to some natural object
or permanent monument as will identify the claim located.
(b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced
and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest
accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument.
Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to
appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it
pertains and the name of the claim.
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

Federal Placer Claim Locations:

Section 10 of 1872 Mining Act - where said placer-claims shall be upon surveyed lands, and conform to legal subdivisions, no further survey or plat shall be required, and all placer mining-claims hereafter located shall conform as near as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such surveys, and no such location shall include more than twenty acres for each individual claimant, but where such claims cannot be conformed to legal subdivisions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed lands

Both sets of location laws have to be met:

Section 5 of 1872 Mining Act - That the miners of each mining district may make rules regulations not in conflict with the laws of the United States, or with the laws of the State or Territory in which the district is situated, governing the location, manner of recording, amount of work necessary to hold possession of a mining-claim, subject to the following requirements: The location must be distinctly marked on the ground so that its boundaries can be readily traced.

California doesn't require corner stakes be erected for placer claims that conform to an existing survey but they do require a location monument with a copy of the location notice attached (less than half of California has been surveyed). The U.S. requires claims be "distinctly marked on the ground". Neither law requires stakes or monuments be maintained once they are erected. Some States do require that you do annual maintenance on your markers but California does not.

Prospectors don't have any legal right to declare an existing claim invalid... period. That's up to a court of law. Not the BLM or the State but a court of record.
From the front page on the Mining Claims Maps on Land Matters:

The only way to determine an actual claim location is to obtain the County Recorder Location Notice and amendments for the claim in question, study the mapped location and then find the location marker on the ground. Members of the public and other prospectors do not have the right to determine whether an existing claim location is valid, only a court of record can make that determination.

I hope that helps!

Heavy Pans

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

That was my understanding....follow the procedures to transfer ownership, then it's done.

 

[RobertF]

In terms of county recorders and maps, most claimants I know don't file a map with the county since they're paying by the page and many (do any?) counties don't require it to be filed. Also, down here in Kern County, unless your map is straight black and white (no shading) the recorder doesn't really want your map as it won't scan well, their official records are black and white, not grayscale. I'd wager other recorders have the same issue. If you want maps, the state BLM office is a better source.

Once you start researching other claims at the county, without any maps filed, comes the joys of finding out most claimants don't know how to properly describe aliquot parts.

 

[minerrick]

RobertF- no truer words have been spoken. I don't know how many times I have tried to map out a description, and it makes no sense at all. A lot of people have no clue how to describe.

 

[minerrick]

Dusty Boots- go to LR2000 and find the township/range and sections you want to look at.... copy down the names of the claimants in the quadrants of the sections you want to look at and then either contact the BLM or the county to pull the paperwork on those claims to see where they lay EXACTLY. What isn't covered by claim is yours to claim. A lot of people who claim claims, don't bother to see who they are overfiling. One caveat to all of this is the "on the ground" markings take precesedence over maps or descriptions, so with the above info you need to go out in the field and see what the on the ground boundaries of your claim neighbors are to determine what you can claim.

 

[Rail Dawg]

The claim process is not for the faint of heart that's for sure.

I have dozens in Nevada (Rye Patch) and I'll tell you right now the learning process wasn't easy.

Quite frankly without spending some serious time studying how to do/research claims it's just not going to happen for the casual prospector.

I know this discussion is about California of course I'm just trying to relate my Nevada experiences.

I have found claims in very valuable areas of Rye Patch but getting them was far more than just looking at LR2000 and going into the county recorder.

Also the adjudicator for the BLM isn't going to let you claim over another claim. At least the Reno office won't.

When I submit I am rock solid knowing the claim is available. That doesn't come easy.

Not trying to be discouraging but I have been doing this awhile and I simply got lucky to find a mentor willing to show me the ropes.

In my opinion it takes a LOT of homework, good sleuthing skills and the ability to see deep into the data presented by the BLM and the counties.

Maps, the PLSS, strong navigation skills, knowing the laws of 1872 and knowing the intricacies and foibles of the gov't agencies.

It's not easy.