California Counter

[digginmich]

Found this with my Tesoro Cibola, Had that chill of excitement run up my spine as I thought I dug my first gold coin. Upon further research these tokens were used during the gold rush as the first poker chips, This particular example was a 5 dollar denomination ( alot of money in 1848). I have found many old coins but felt compelled to have this as my first post in finds,for me this piece lends much to the imagination to the history it has seen and where it has been.

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[MikesDiggins]

Nice piece of history, never seen one of those.
I want one.

 

[steelheadwill]

Very interesting find!
must have some thick plate to hold up like that
thanks for showing!

 

[Bunker]

Those are WAY COOL!!!
Thanks for posting,
Bunker

 

[CMDiamonddawg]

49'ers Cali gold poker piece !! simp ly Awesome oh well almost gold

dawg

 

[N.J.THer]

Cool piece...so it was a marker not actually out of gold??

Thanks for posting.

NJ

 

[Steveo]

Very cool looking token.............................

 

[Giant056]

Very cool find for sure

 

[kuger]

I hate to burst your bubble but those were fantasy pieces and are fake

 

[jewelerguy]

that's pretty cool

 

[digginmich]

I hate to burst your bubble but those were fantasy pieces and are fake

Didn't burst my bubble at all! I appreciate your assessment . I went to a local "expert" who told me what this piece was, claimed it to be authentic, and referred me to the book "Early California Counters" written by L.B. Fauver (1991) where it is listed with a picture. It is made of brass. I feel compelled to write the author of this book and let him know that these are fake fantasy pieces. Thankyou again for letting me know this is a worthless fantasy piece, it was still fun to find with my metal detector and sparked my imagination.[h=1][/h]

 

[Gunrunner61]

Just a ? how do you know it's a 5.00 dollar chip?

 

[digginmich]

Just a ? how do you know it's a 5.00 dollar chip?

In the book "Early California Counters" written by L.B. Fauver , Fauver cites "Hoyles Games" (1845 edition) as his source and lists this particular piece as the "most common" example and its specific denomination as a 5 dollar piece in his book. According to Fauver, these pieces were made in England and used for table games particularly for poker. I will be doing more research to validate this claim, as a doubt was raised as to it's authenticity. If you read this Kuger how do you know this is a "fake" "fantasy" piece? you might be able to save me the hassle of additional research.

 

[kuger]

In the book "Early California Counters" written by L.B. Fauver , Fauver cites "Hoyles Games" (1845 edition) as his source and lists this particular piece as the "most common" example and its specific denomination as a 5 dollar piece in his book. According to Fauver, these pieces were made in England and used for table games particularly for poker. I will be doing more research to validate this claim, as a doubt was raised as to it's authenticity. If you read this Kuger how do you know this is a "fake" "fantasy" piece? you might be able to save me the hassle of additional research.

Thanks for not taking that the wrong way!!I have an article somewhere about them and the story,but I cant find it.Myself and my group of friends specialize in Gold Rush lore and have researched every avenue down to underwear button manufacturers!LOL!I also have never ever seen one come from our finds or any in archeological excavations either.Keep us posted for sure,and I will continue to search for that article

 

[gradechecker69]

It's still cool!!!

 

[kuger]

It's still cool!!!

Yes it is!!
Upon further conversation with my expert partners it appears the exact verdict may still be out on "when",exactly these were made.It sounds like they have surfaced in 1860+ plus sites.
I must also point out that in the early 1850's a shovel cost $8.00....a lot of money out East....not in Cali.The merchants mined the miners and were the ones that realized the fortunes

 

[Ironman!]

To come to your defense, your counter is also listed in "TOKENS AND MEDALS A Guide To The Values Of United States Exonumia" (authors Stephen P Albert & Lawrence E. Elman) where it states that these were used in card playing and predate the poker chip. Most were made and used in the 19th century and resemble coins and/or size. Most are made of brass and copy gold coins. The authors also reference the book you referred to by Fauver and also the TAMS Journal "American Game Counters by Russell Rulau and George J. Fuld special issue 1972. I have personally found a "Spiel Marke" game counter from an 1880's site and these were made in Germany. It was the real deal.

Now in Kugers defense, I have been an avid token collector for 27 yrs. and have seen these at token shows selling for $5 -$8 along with the Oregon beaver gold coin copy. Speculation is that these are copies of the real deal and are fakes that were put out sometime in the 70's.

A FAKE is a counterfeit or modern-made reproduction of actual old tokens and medals, meant to deceive collectors. A FANTASY token is a modern token that isn't a copy of an actual old token. No such token existed. They are totally fictious and novelty in nature. Example; KITTY KAT HOUSE Eat Drink Dance Go To Bed Or Get Out / Special Service To Wagon Trains Stogie Screw Rock Gut Whiskey Check. I will check with some of my hardcore token collector friends in California and see what they have to say about it!

Hope this helps.
IM

 

[kuger]

To come to your defense, your counter is also listed in "TOKENS AND MEDALS A Guide To The Values Of United States Exonumia" (authors Stephen P Albert & Lawrence E. Elman) where it states that these were used in card playing and predate the poker chip. Most were made and used in the 19th century and resemble coins and/or size. Most are made of brass and copy gold coins. The authors also reference the book you referred to by Fauver and also the TAMS Journal "American Game Counters by Russell Rulau and George J. Fuld special issue 1972. I have personally found a "Spiel Marke" game counter from an 1880's site and these were made in Germany. It was the real deal.

Now in Kugers defense, I have been an avid token collector for 27 yrs. and have seen these at token shows selling for $5 -$8 along with the Oregon beaver gold coin copy. Speculation is that these are copies of the real deal and are fakes that were put out sometime in the 70's.

A FAKE is a counterfeit or modern-made reproduction of actual old tokens and medals, meant to deceive collectors. A FANTASY token is a modern token that isn't a copy of an actual old token. No such token existed. They are totally fictious and novelty in nature. Example; KITTY KAT HOUSE Eat Drink Dance Go To Bed Or Get Out / Special Service To Wagon Trains Stogie Screw Rock Gut Whiskey Check. I will check with some of my hardcore token collector friends in California and see what they have to say about it!

Hope this helps.
IM

Thanks Ironman!!!!(This is one of the experts,I eluded to!! )He knows his stuff!!

 

[CC Hunter]

These "California 1849" tokens or game counters have been variously attributed to a number of sources, ranging from being made in Europe in the 1850's, to being made my Scovill Manufacturing of Waterbury Connecticut. Considering that there are a rather large variety known as well as notable differences in details and quality of strike on these many examples, lends precedence to these tokens/counters having been made at different times over the years by possibly several manufacturers.

Here in the next link below is another recovered example of the California 1849 token/counter piece, that was previously posted on this forum. Presently we have not seen a recovered example of these from San Francisco, the great Gold Rush metropolis and gambling center of the period, suggesting that these items are either of a later time period than the Gold Rush, and/or circulated in other far regions as possibly promotional or novelty type items.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/todays-finds/146895-1849-california-coin.html


American Numismatic Association Magazine / Winter 2007 (note Fig. 29)

ANS Magazine | Winter07 / Cabinet


CC Hunter