cameras see gold

[Carl-NC]

I have a Minolta 7D, and a Meade LX200. Thinking about using the Minolta on the Meade, and buying a newer Sony for regular photography. I haven't priced IR cameras in a while, so maybe the prices have come down. No, they won't find gold, but at least when you discover that fact you will be left holding a camera which is worth something.

 

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[hung]

Very interesting and a basically true statement. Gold is one of the hightest reflectors of IR, yet is capable of storing a tremendous amount of absorbed IR. On an instantaneous point you are correct, but over a sustained period of being exposed by the soil passed Ir? Wouldn't it be simply the larger amount of stored IR energy in the Gold being released over time being more evident than in the surrounding soil which is basically barren of such and so loses it´s IR energy quicker after the stimulating IR energy is removed - night. This effectively leads to a soil temp difference due to the Gold which fits nicely into our experiment.


Don Jose de La Mancha

Tayopa,

With the simple procedure I described I was able to spot the halo. But with the right IR filters, not the double layer processed film I have used and with a SLR type camera, this halo gets much more definite. If you have ever seen Villanueva's pictures shot with a CCD and a SLR type, you know what I mean.

My home test target is buried for about a year now in my garden. It's shallow. About 4 inches deep. It's also close to powerlines. All of this was done on purpose. This was to simulate the worst conditions for my Mineoro to detect it so that I know how the ionic/electrostatic fields are behaving that particular day or time of day. I also usually try my self made detectors on it.
I don't know what kind of camera you have, but it's quite easy to test it. You definetely should try. For me, it could not have been simpler. I just grabbed the camera with the double layer film and took a shot. Did not care about the time of day.
Later it appeared in the photo editor. A double layer film will help filter all visible light, so only the remaining IR is kept after the processing stage. I think it does not need to have a long time buried gold for this. A couple of days to a week period will suffice.

If you make a detailed study on subjects such as the IR (long waves), how it reflects back from earth surface in the cooling process, telluric currents, etc. you will have a better understanding on how this halo is formed.
Best...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Carl: You posted --> don't know what you mean by "absorbed IR." Normally, IR radiation is converted to heat when it strikes an object. Do you mean conversion to heat?
=============================
what exactly IS IR radiation frankly, except for heat? I was taught that it is one and the same?
******************************************************************************************************************

You `posted -->IR radiation strikes the surface of the soil, is converted to heat, which thermally conducts (poorly) through the soil
=============================

First you needn´t have to tell me that, hehe. I live in a home with almost 4´ (47") adobe walls for that very reason. But they also store a tremendous amount of heat, then release it slowly at night to maintain a fairly effective level of heat. How do they do that ? simply because they have a much more effective mass than the surrounding air.

The mass of Metal in the ground absorbs more energy over the day than the surrounding medium. Then as the surrounding area drops in temp, it releases it - as you know heat flows to the cold side. So despìte being exposed to the same level of stimulation, the superior mass / density of the metal allows it to store more energy.

When the stimulating energy activity / decreases to below the level of the stored energy there is a reversed effective flow. Obviously the mass of metal has stored much more energy than the soil, so it will continue to emit it long after the soil has effectively lost it´s heat , the measure of which, for our purposes, is the differential, not actual heat / IR.

This is what we are attempting to measure, the differential.

B bk shortly

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

The mass of Metal in the ground absorbs more energy over the day than the surrounding medium. Then as the surrounding area drops in temp, it releases it - as you know heat flows to the cold side. So despìte being exposed to the same level of stimulation, the superior mass / density of the metal allows it to store more energy.

When the stimulating energy activity / decreases to below the level of the stored energy there is a reversed effective flow. Obviously the mass of metal has stored much more energy than the soil, so it will continue to emit it long after the soil has effectively lost it´s heat , the measure of which, for our purposes, is the differential, not actual heat / IR.

You're assuming that the surrounding soil will lose its heat faster than the gold, leaving warm gold in cold ground. To do so, the soil would need to have a higher thermal conductivity than the gold, or more appropriately, a higher thermal diffusion. This is not the case.

There are some simple experiments that would easily prove this.

 

[bildon]

SWR I did not get the copy of the book where did you send it to? bildon

 

[magnasort]

If you consider that the Earth is constantly being bombarded by cosmic rays of every sort including those that can penetrate up to a mile deep then you may consider that such rays/energy input may cause gold to resonate at several of its atomic/molecular resonance frequencies thus making it emit 'feedback' from cosmic ray stimulation that can be detected by modern electronic receivers. The fact that you can bombard coins in the ground with energy and detect the effect makes metal detections what they are, some more sensitive to gold. If you understand detectors you will realize that with a little proper tuning there can be detectors that will definitively pick out various elements.

 

[hung]

Carl N-C wrote:

IR radiation strikes the surface of the soil, is converted to heat, which thermally conducts (poorly) through the soil.

This is wrong.
What strikes the earth are short waves. UVA,UVB and C.
But before they hit the earth's suface, a good portion is reflected back in the atmosphere.

Long waves in form of IR are released back FROM EARTH's surface 24 hours a day during the cooling process. So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.

 

[Carl-NC]

So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.

Umm... OK... Don Jose, do you agree with this?

 

[hung]

So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.

Umm... OK... Don Jose, do you agree with this?

It's not a matter of belief. It's not a matter of agreeing or not. This is a scientific fact.
Any meteorology book will teach you this.
Yes, I took a meteorology course for a specific government job last year.
As always, study the subject so that you know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[Carl-NC]

It's not a matter of belief. It's not a matter of agreeing or not. This is a scientific fact.
Any meteorology book will teach you this.
Yes, I took a meteorology course for a specific government job last year.
As always, study the subject so that you know exactly what you are talking about.

Apparently your class didn't cover this. I agree, it's not a matter of belief. There is a simple experiment that would easily prove this.

Ignoring the experiment that would prove the point, can you provide any references that state natural sunlight contains no IR?

 

[hung]

Apparently your class didn't cover this.

You don't even know what you are saying...
It covered much more than this, all specifically IR related which you do not even dream about.

I agree, it's not a matter of belief. There is a simple experiment that would easily prove this.

Ignoring the experiment that would prove the point, can you provide any references that state natural sunlight contains no IR?

Don't be stupid. Stop trying to infer things I did not say.

Again:
The UV , short wave radiation portion, also called 'radiant' energy which is not reflected back to space, is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period. Earth is subject to cooling 24 hours a day, in a daily basis, EMITTING LONG WAVES those being IR. This involves the thermal balance of our planet.
So, IT'S NOT the IR from the sun which is responsible for the heating process , but the UV short radiation absorbed which causes IR to be released by the earth's surface.

Several years and you still don't understand how a LRL work. How long will it take for you to understand this simple process now?

 

[Carl-NC]

Don't be stupid. Stop trying to infer things I did not say.

I didn't infer anything... you made a very clear statement:

So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.

I don't mind people saying, "Oops, I was wrong." But I do mind when they instead blame me for their error.

Again:
The UV , short wave radiation portion, also called 'radiant' energy which is not reflected back to space, is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period.

Again, you leave no room for misinterpretation... you are saying that UV radiation striking the ground is THE ONLY mechanism by which the ground is heated. And, again, this is wrong. All sunlight -- IR, visible, and UV -- contribute to ground heating. Of the entire spectrum of sunlight hitting the ground, most is IR, a lot is visible, and very little is UV. A simple experiment would easily prove this.

Yes, I agree that re-radiation from the ground is IR.

 

[hung]

Again, you leave no room for misinterpretation... you are saying that UV radiation striking the ground is THE ONLY mechanism by which the ground is heated. And, again, this is wrong. All sunlight -- IR, visible, and UV -- contribute to ground heating. Of the entire spectrum of sunlight hitting the ground, most is IR, a lot is visible, and very little is UV. A simple experiment would easily prove this.

Yes, I agree that re-radiation from the ground is IR.

I see you have more mistaken concepts...
You need to understand what sensible heat is and its role. Knowing the difference from latent heat also will help you.
You sound like you've been getting your points from wikipedia...You obviously does not know much about meteorology matters. That's ok. I was not expecting you did anyway.

I don't like to repeat myself over and over. I already did ... twice. You do what you want with that info.

If you happen to understand how this all works, you will see how natural and simple the explanation on why the IR pic will show that halo is, instead of thinking it's a blurr turned into a bad photo.

Best wishes.

 

[hung]

Folks,

I received a call from one of my team members and he got a new sony camera. He took some test pictures of a gold sample he has buried close to his house using the same aproach I told here. He will send me the pics this week , so that I can process them in my app.
If the camera did ok and the halo does appear in the pics, I will ask him permission to show them here.

Regards.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon Carl¨: You pòsted -->you're assuming that the surrounding soil will lose its heat faster than the gold, leaving warm gold in cold ground.
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Yep, since it has far less absorbed / retained energy than the Metallic mass would have over the days exposure. Also, as the metallic mass later emits it´s energy, it would tend to be restricted in it´s rate of dissipation by the semi insulation factor of the soil in contact with it, yet raising, or replacing the temp. loss of that soil in comparison with further outlying soil. Hence a temp variation which can theoretically be measured or even photographed with a suitably IR sensitive system.
Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Carl-NC]

DJ,

I think that thermal diffusion will get you on this one. I'm not convinced that gold has any higher volumetric heat capacity than soil (and volumetric, not specific, is what counts), and it certainly has a much higher thermal conductivity, guaranteeing that the temperature of the buried gold will merely follow, not lag, that of the soil. As I've mentioned, there are simple experiments that would prove this one way or the other, and I may pursue this once the rainy season passes.

BTW, what is your opinion on Hung's declarations? Do you personally agree that "there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth?" Do you agree that "UV , short wave radiation portion, also called 'radiant' energy which is not reflected back to space, is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period?" Just curious. I found those claims absolutely bizarre.

 

[hung]

Hi Bill,

Answering your questions.
First you need to know the differences in UV radiations. There are basically three types: close, distant and extreme UVs.
Each one with a specific wavelength. The close type in the 200-380nm region and the extreme being the 1-31nm one.
Some substances when exposed to UV radiations behave differently than when they are at the visible light. They become fluorescent due to electrons excitation in the atoms and molecules of those said substances when they are abosorbing the 'invisible' light energy.
UV radiation has signifcantly more 'energy' than IR. UV-A accounts for almost 99% of the total UV radiation that strikes earth. Its incidence don't change much be winter time or summer, but it's a little more intense from 10 AM to 16 PM. They are also called 'long' UV. This is the UV highly responsible for the aging process by the way.
UV-B is most intense during summer time and is partialy absorbed by the ozone in the atmosphere. It's also called 'medium' UV and is the one type responsible for skin cancer.
And finally, UV-C. This one is totally absorbed by the oxygen and ozone in the atmosphere. It measures about 200nm and it's called 'short' UV and it's not much relevant to our detection case.

So, as you see, the most occuring UV is UV-A and since all these years, I have been getting more results in ionic/electrostatic detection of gold in the summer time, the sum of intensity of those UVsn (A+B), contribute for an increase in the releasing rate of IR waves from the surface in the cooling process.
Also notice that in the summer, the relative humidity of air is very low, since this is directly proportional to the temperature. And when relative humidity is low, electrostatics manifest better, so this favors your detector's range and stability.

Regarding pressure, low zones favor convection of hot air creating convergence at low and divergence at high levels of this air. In high zones the opposite happens. Convergence at high and divergence at low levels. From this you can also deduce that when the pressure is low, the air which is rising, is favoring the called 'direct circulation', that forces the cold air in the upper levels to descend in another region. This is the pre-rain moment and the surface of earth is negatively charged. Detection from your device then is much favored, altough there's the drawback of flashlights at distance cause false beepings. This however is not hard to be realized as the correct target beeps will only come from one direction.

Hope this helps.
Regards.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Carl: As you may have noticed, my trend of thought has been / is evolving as we go on. Some thoughts have been discarded, others improved. Some I have you, my sounding board , to thank for. You forced me to research further, and in many cases revise my thoughts.

I recognize that some of my origional thoughts were in error, while others were quite correct, but then isn´t that what this talk is all about ?

A) IR has very limited effective penetration in the soil , quite true, but it does heat up the soil, which in turn tends to spread to areas of lower thermal energy until it hits the buried metallic mass , where it is stored in larger amounts than in the surrounding soil.. This metallic mass later releases this thermal energy back into the soil as the soil loses it´s store, which can make the secondarily thermal energized soil near it discernibly warmer and can so theoretically be measured or indicated by a sensitive measuring / visual recording device.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good mornin hung: You posted --> UV-B is most intense during summer time
=========

¿May I ask your interpretation as to why?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jb7487]

Folks,

I received a call from one of my team members and he got a new sony camera. He took some test pictures of a gold sample he has buried close to his house using the same aproach I told here. He will send me the pics this week , so that I can process them in my app.
If the camera did ok and the halo does appear in the pics, I will ask him permission to show them here.

Regards.

Don't bother. People have been posting pictures of "auras" here for quite a long time. All are pictures of known targets that are centered in the image and have been post processed to heck to the point where it finally shows something. This is not a true test. The true test is taking a picture where the target is not known and then doing as much post processing as you see fit to finally decide whether or not it is worth digging for the target. If you can't find the unknown target then your solution is not workable in the real world.

Anyone can take a picture of the ground where they know a coin is buried and start messing with photoshop until that spot looks different on the picture. This does NOT equate to gold having an aura or the ability to find hidden gold with a camera. It only equates to wishful thinking.

Finally, I will say that digital cameras and photography could potentially alert you to different ground compositions due to drainage differences. If these drainage differences are caused by ground disturbance or caches then you could potentially find hidden gold through photography. But it would not be related to auras or other such nonsense.

Gee... haven't we already done this topic to death in another thread?