Can anyone help with identifying etchings found in a cave in Middle Tennessee?

[huntsman53]

Well, if any of you have seen or have been following the Thread by Limitool titled "Metal Detecting Cave TN. cave / Anybody done this?" http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/359759-metal-detectiing-tn-cave-anybody-done.html , we are in need of more eyes and persons with knowledge of sign posts or markers to try to find their meaning! The etchings were first found by Brad (Limitool) in 1994 when he discovered then explored the cave with his daughter. The cave shows evidence of use long ago by Native American Indians but also appears to have been used by Confederate or Union Forces or just a few soldiers or possibly Outlaws. The etchings are carved into a dried Mud Wall that was purposely cut out of and made speparate from the other dried Mud Walls in the cave. Also, the dried Mud Wall containing the etchings are just on the left after crawling through a dug out portion of a Mud Wall and Mud Mound which was apparently and purposely done so that someone crawling through the dug out area of the Mud Wall and Mud Mound could not miss seeing it! Just to give a perspective of the cave, upon entering the entrance where you must slightly stoop over, you travel another 30 yards stooped over about half way, then you must duck waddle for about 10 to 15 yards or so, then you can either go around the bend in the cave by duck waddling through the creek or you can crawl through the dug out in the Mud Wall and Mud Mound. As stated before, if you crawl through the dug out, the etchings are just on the left which is close to 50 yards into the cave and well beyond any natural light. I have included pictures of the cut out dried Mud Wall containing the etchings below. Please view the pictures and see if any of you can decipher any of their' meanings. There is a split in the dried Mud Wall with an etching of a tree, ridgeline, creek system or roads and possibly some more etchings on the left portion of the dried Mud Wall to the left of the crack. The crack may have actually been cut to separate portions of the etchings containing different portions of the message to be told. The right portion of the dried Mud Wall contains etchings that look like the letters "H", "L" and "R" but also appears to contain many more smaller etchings. While the newer pictures were taken Sunday by Brad, myself and Brad's daughter, Brad went back again today and took may more detailed pictures of the dried Mud Wall and the etchings. Once Brad has downloaded the pictures and if they come out okay, we will include them to this Thread as soon as possible.

Any help that you all could give us would be truly appreciated! Thanks!


Frank

 

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[Cleveland B.]

Great photos huntsman. The fact that it is located 50 yards inside in complete darkness is awesome.

Seems like some people have indicated that they believe that the "H" sign might indicate a tunnel, with the
cross member between the two vertical parallel lines possibly denoting general placement or directional angle.
As you are already in a tunnel and the angle of the cross member is so exaggerated from the perpendicular,
maybe it is indicating an angle of direction ? Who knows...

Good luck !

 

[Limitool]

Good job Frank.... Just a tad little more info. I measured the mound today and it is 48" long and 16" high to give you a slight perceptive of its size. I would love to go back and LIGHT UP this area and get more photos if that's what I need to do. But how would and/or what is the correct way to do this?

 

[huntsman53]

If you all can bear with me, I will have the new pictures edited and posted as soon as possible!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

As promised, I have uploaded the pictures that Brad took today! The pictures have been edited to darken them a little as they were too bright, to enlarge them and the sharpen the images. The first set were taken from a left angle looking at the dried Mud Wall with the etchings and the second set were taken from a right angle. There are some more pictures taken straight on at the dried Mud Wall and etchings and I will try to get them posted later. I've been having trouble with Photobucket and with TNnet's image uploader!


Frank

Pics taken from a left angle and they run from left to right


Pics taken from a right angle from left to right


END

 

[huntsman53]

Brad had been back into the cave two weeks prior to June 30th and since someone had entered the cave between that time and when Brad, his daughter and myself entered the cave on June 30th, we ask that if anyone is able to decipher some or all of the etching's meanings, that you personally PM Brad (Limitool) or myself, Frank (huntsman53) of your findings. It is possible that a member(s) or lurker(s) of the TNnet forums, may be reading many of the Threads and posts and gaining information with which they are able to find another member's location and discovery and trespass on such. I hope that this is not the case but there have been several instances where it is quite possible that this has happened and certain specific information needs to be kept in confidence by use of PM'ing members! Steps are being taken to try to find out who these individual are and since they trespassed not only upon Brad's discovery, they also trespassed on privately owned land and hopefully will be dealt with.

Thanks!


Frank

 

[Tnmountains]

It is not uncommon to see where spelunkers would carve their initials into a cave in the early days of the hobby. I have seen dates to the 1800's in the back of caves.

 

[tvanwho]

Try a Blacklight on the mud walls and see if anything more shows up? Blacklights are used in old buildings and can show wall alterations on drywall from what I hear that cannot be seen in visible light. Can't hurt to try it on the mud walls?
Did you metal detect inside the cave?
-Tom

 

[huntsman53]

It is not uncommon to see where spelunkers would carve their initials into a cave in the early days of the hobby. I have seen dates to the 1800's in the back of caves.

That is always possible but there are appears to be some etchings that just don't fit into the realm of someone leaving their' initials in a cave! Too often some non-caring adventurers enter a cave a write or even make paintings over top of ancient artwork left by Native American Indians and possibly even longer ago residents of caves and this type of vandalism must stop.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

Try a Blacklight on the mud walls and see if anything more shows up? Blacklights are used in old buildings and can show wall alterations on drywall from what I hear that cannot be seen in visible light. Can't hurt to try it on the mud walls?
Did you metal detect inside the cave?
-Tom

Tom,

Great tip! I never thought about a blacklight but you are right, they can show a lot more than what is visible. Yes, on June 30th Brad and myself, metal detected from the dug out portion in the mud wall and mud mound (this is before the dried mud wall with the etchings) all the way back to the entrance to the cave but we found nothing. Also, when Brad went back yesterday for more pictures and measurements and to try to see if the trespassers had ventured beyond the etchings, he metal detected around the dried mud wall with the etchings and the surrounding areas but he found nothing as well.


Frank

 

[Limitool]

It is not uncommon to see where spelunkers would carve their initials into a cave in the early days of the hobby. I have seen dates to the 1800's in the back of caves.

While without a doubt you could be correct... I'd like to believe this is not the case. And my only reason (and I mean only thus far) is that there are so many more accessible places in which to do just that then this spot. Somebody really worked to shape this mound in a very cramped spot off the main streambed path. But it is possible... but they sure passed up some much easier spots in which to announce there presence. Why someone would crawl up to this cramped spot and spend time there doing this is hard to understand. I admit to date... I don't know why or who... Brad

 

[huntsman53]

While without a doubt you could be correct... I'd like to believe this is not the case. And my only reason (and I mean only thus far) is that there are so many more accessible places in which to do just that then this spot. Somebody really worked to shape this mound in a very cramped spot off the main streambed path. But it is possible... but they sure passed up some much easier spots in which to announce there presence. Why someone would crawl up to this cramped spot and spend time there doing this is hard to understand. I admit to date... I don't know why or who... Brad

I wholeheartedly agree with you Brad on this point! The only reason that a spelunker or just an adventurer would go to the trouble of carving out a rectangular block in which to place their' initials and removing dried mud walls to the left and right of this particular dried mud wall and digging out an access to it by removing dirt in a mud wall and mound in such a remote and dark place, would be that they are an egotist and a bit of an A.H. in my opinion.


Frank

 

[Limitool]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Brad on this point! The only reason that a spelunker or just an adventurer would go to the trouble of carving out a rectangular block in which to place their' initials and removing dried mud walls to the left and right of this particular dried mud wall and digging out an access to it by removing dirt in a mud wall and mound in such a remote and dark place, would be that they are an egotist and a bit of an A.H. in my opinion.

Frank

Amen Frank.... I'm so glad somebody else besides me can attest to this fact... Now we could be wrong, but your absolutely right when you state " they are an egotist and a bit of an A.H." if this is what happened. And besides that... these etching are OLD and I'm afraid a lot of what was present is now hard to see and/or "gone" due to the high humidity. Frank I wonder if that "H" figure is referencing that tunnel back further in cave which cannot be accessed now which leads to the other part of cave that Chelsea and I found? Got to light up mound and video... Brad

 

[huntsman53]

As promised, I have uploaded more of the pictures that Brad took yesterday! These are pretty much straight on close-ups of the etchings and a few portions are missing but other pictures of the etchings can be seen on the other Thread "Metal Detecting TN. Cave / Anybody done this?". I will try to give the layout of each picture.


Frank

This pic is of the upper right portion of the left part of the dried mud wall (left of crack or cut) above and to the right of the tree, ridge line, creek system or roads etching.


This pic is of the lower right portion of the left part of the dried mud wall (left of the crack or cut) to the right of the tree, ridge line, creek system or roads etching.


This pic is of the upper left portion of the right part of the dried mud wall (right of the crack or cut) above what looks like an initial "H" etching.


This pic is of the lower left portion of the right part of the dried mud wall (right of the crack or cut) mainly below what looks like an initial "H" etching.


This pic is of somewhere in the upper right part of the dried mud wall (right of the crack or cut), I believe above both what appear to be "L" and "R" etchings.


This pic is of the center portion of the right part of the dried mud wall (right of the crack or cut) below what looks like an initial "L" etching.


END

 

[huntsman53]

So folks, I did a little more editing of the pictures to see if I could get some more etching details to show up! I have included the 1st edited pic below along with a sketch I made in Paint of what I believe I see. Don't laugh at my doodling as I can't manipulate my PC's mouse like some folks can and I have Carpal Tunnel syndrome in both hands to make matters worse. See if you agree with my' sketchings and/or see something that needs to be taken out or added that you see. The sketch is of the etchings to the left of the crack. Also, I will try to get more up at a later time.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

Although I have not gotten around to the other sketches yet, I though it best to post the pics that I edited last night. I am thinking that it might be better to make more copies of the pictures and try doing the sketching over top one of them instead of trying freehand with Paint.


Frank

 

[mical66]

hi guys, let me throw my 2 cents in . way i see it is it cant hurt right ?

from some shows i have seen , cave or cliff etchings were made to be a map to a treasure , the paint picture you did resembles a topo map of a creek or maybe a mountain range ,maybe this was made so far back in the cave to protect it from the elements and is a map ?
it has faired pretty bad and looks like alot of the etching and initials have crumbled off.
get a map of the area and see if anything matches up.

 

[Limitool]

hi guys, let me throw my 2 cents in . way i see it is it cant hurt right ?

from some shows i have seen , cave or cliff etchings were made to be a map to a treasure , the paint picture you did resembles a topo map of a creek or maybe a mountain range ,maybe this was made so far back in the cave to protect it from the elements and is a map ?
it has faired pretty bad and looks like alot of the etching and initials have crumbled off.
get a map of the area and see if anything matches up.

Thanks... Frank (Huntsman53) has ordered one to be sent to my home of the area. There's no mountain range here... but lots of steep ridges, small creeks and one river very close. Yea it's 51 yards deep and out of natural light after 2 turns. And it's up out of the way from easy access. It does appear to have faired pretty bad but I think if lite up correctly and then photographed "correctly" we might be able to "capture" some of the faded lines or etchings. Again... thanks... keep thinking... Later, Brad

 

[huntsman53]

Well folks, I did a little experimenting on two if the pictures yesterday to see if more details would emerge from the mud walls! As everyone knows by inverting the colors on a photograph, many hidden items come to light. I did just that and although more etchings or just marks and scratches or whatever came to light but in my burnt out state from peering at the photos too much, I haven't been able to tell what is and what isn't etchings as well as what they are and what they mean. In any case, they are attached below, so please have a look-see and see if you can tell anymore about them.


Frank

 

[Mileaway]

This seems like a lot of work just to scratch some symbols on it when they could have done the same on the walls, don't you think?
My mind wanders to what's inside the mud block? Is it solid mud or just a blanket of mud hiding what you went in there for in the first place?
Just thinking out loud but it doesn't make sense and when it doesn't make sense, well, there is always a reason why.
That is of course, if you're convinced it's man made.
Without the right equipment you'll never know unless you do some exploratory drill holes with a camera..
Good Luck, it's very interesting for sure.