Is there any one who has any information about wrecks in the area of Capricorn Shoals in Indian ocean?
Harpooner.
Harpooner.
capricorn shoals indian ocean
- Thread starter Harpooner
- Start date
Thats a big area, the shoals are made up of a long reef stretching from the Seychelles almost down to Mauritius.
They are a long way from anywhere, thats why not many people have been there, just the yachters. the must be plenty of wrecks there, but on the East side there is almost always a heavy ground swell which has had thousands of miles to travel. then the reef comes up almost vertically causing the waves to smash anything in their way.
Where are you based? it is an unusual area,i thought I was the only one daft enough to try to work there
They are a long way from anywhere, thats why not many people have been there, just the yachters. the must be plenty of wrecks there, but on the East side there is almost always a heavy ground swell which has had thousands of miles to travel. then the reef comes up almost vertically causing the waves to smash anything in their way.
Where are you based? it is an unusual area,i thought I was the only one daft enough to try to work there
- Thread starter
- #3
hello from Poland,
Im base in Poland , but my ship / 36 mtrs long ex whaling ship from Norway / is in Tunisia.
Two years ago i sailed from Red Sea to Bangka strait in Indonesia to work there.
Now I have a group of divers interested in going to Capricorn Shoals for diving expedition, so I thought
about making this trip more interesting if possible.
Thanks for reply, I read a lot of your posts on this forum and learn a lot from You.
Waiting for more interesting facts ,
Best regards,
Harpooner
Im base in Poland , but my ship / 36 mtrs long ex whaling ship from Norway / is in Tunisia.
Two years ago i sailed from Red Sea to Bangka strait in Indonesia to work there.
Now I have a group of divers interested in going to Capricorn Shoals for diving expedition, so I thought
about making this trip more interesting if possible.
Thanks for reply, I read a lot of your posts on this forum and learn a lot from You.
Waiting for more interesting facts ,
Best regards,
Harpooner
bronzecannons
Full Member
Cornelius you're not interested in the EIC ship Vansittart? It also sank in 1789 near Bangka island, supposedly, only 11 of the 33 chest of silver coins were recovered afterwards. That leaves 22 chest just waiting for us! c",)
I know that a group did do a bit of a hit-n-run survey / salvage on her in the mid 80's but they didn't have a permit or anything so were just pretending to be fishing and sport diving in that area. From my sources I heard that they did recover some general ship misc. items but got spooked in the end about being caught by the Indo Navy so left before finding the silver chest.
I have extensive research on this wreck and also know the exact location.
Tony
I know that a group did do a bit of a hit-n-run survey / salvage on her in the mid 80's but they didn't have a permit or anything so were just pretending to be fishing and sport diving in that area. From my sources I heard that they did recover some general ship misc. items but got spooked in the end about being caught by the Indo Navy so left before finding the silver chest.
I have extensive research on this wreck and also know the exact location.
Tony
Harpooner
Check out this link to info on what to expect, The Saya De Ma Malha Expedition went there logged much useful data for a trip such as yours. http://www.lighthouse-foundation.org/fileadmin/LHF/PDF/saya_de_malha.pdf
Its a long way from Tunisia to the Indian ocean with many unusual place on the way, Eritrea for instance, around the Dalek Islands there a many newer wrecks, and probably many old wrecks as well.
You would be well advised to stay away from the Somali coast, (my ex partners father and brother were both executed in Somalia 1994 and 1993) The Somali pirates are getting braver as you can read in the papers. Use the security web sites before passing to close to Somalia. The Yemenis are better never had a problem with them.
Socotra and the smaller Islands you would think would have many wrecks to find. But I had a fishing operation there back in 1999/20 and we searched extensively finding nothing but new wrecks. The UN did a Biodiversity study there, and did a lot of diving they may have found something without knowing what they had as there main divers were trained locals.
I recall selling some diesel to a boat charted to the UN back in 1999 just before we left (monsoon season) they wanted to get to Madagascar before the bad weather. There was a French Marine Archaeologist on board, he told me he had found a site with some iron cannons but was not giving the location away. I have his card somewhere, I will dig it out he was very knowledgeable regarding the Indian Ocean, but like all archaeologists "they are in the same bed with us but have different dreams"
From there you sail to the Seychelles have a bit of R&R not to much as it is a very expensive place, fuel and water then sail on down the Shoals.
As I said the shoals are very long possible more 2000 miles each area has its own mane you need to have a plan as where you are going to end up. if you go all the way down it is about 280km from the last of the reef to Mauritius (some good diving there also subject to season.
The charts of the reef are not so accurate so be carefull, the Eastern side changes due to the constant barrage of the ground swell on that side. About 20 miles from the southern most tip lies a French ship although you would not know as she is on the eastern side of the reef and has been pounded by the breakers for over 200 years.
The islands are really only sand bars which have only about 1m of sand above the high water mark, check the picture out below you will see the reef and the islands.
Check out this link to info on what to expect, The Saya De Ma Malha Expedition went there logged much useful data for a trip such as yours. http://www.lighthouse-foundation.org/fileadmin/LHF/PDF/saya_de_malha.pdf
Its a long way from Tunisia to the Indian ocean with many unusual place on the way, Eritrea for instance, around the Dalek Islands there a many newer wrecks, and probably many old wrecks as well.
You would be well advised to stay away from the Somali coast, (my ex partners father and brother were both executed in Somalia 1994 and 1993) The Somali pirates are getting braver as you can read in the papers. Use the security web sites before passing to close to Somalia. The Yemenis are better never had a problem with them.
Socotra and the smaller Islands you would think would have many wrecks to find. But I had a fishing operation there back in 1999/20 and we searched extensively finding nothing but new wrecks. The UN did a Biodiversity study there, and did a lot of diving they may have found something without knowing what they had as there main divers were trained locals.
I recall selling some diesel to a boat charted to the UN back in 1999 just before we left (monsoon season) they wanted to get to Madagascar before the bad weather. There was a French Marine Archaeologist on board, he told me he had found a site with some iron cannons but was not giving the location away. I have his card somewhere, I will dig it out he was very knowledgeable regarding the Indian Ocean, but like all archaeologists "they are in the same bed with us but have different dreams"
From there you sail to the Seychelles have a bit of R&R not to much as it is a very expensive place, fuel and water then sail on down the Shoals.
As I said the shoals are very long possible more 2000 miles each area has its own mane you need to have a plan as where you are going to end up. if you go all the way down it is about 280km from the last of the reef to Mauritius (some good diving there also subject to season.
The charts of the reef are not so accurate so be carefull, the Eastern side changes due to the constant barrage of the ground swell on that side. About 20 miles from the southern most tip lies a French ship although you would not know as she is on the eastern side of the reef and has been pounded by the breakers for over 200 years.
The islands are really only sand bars which have only about 1m of sand above the high water mark, check the picture out below you will see the reef and the islands.
Attachments
bronzecannons
Full Member
Cornelius said:
Cornelius, in that case you should know that by the time they returned back to the ship the it had settled down deep into the sand and that's why they were only able to recover 11 chest. Those guys that did the hit-n-run didn't even have the luxury to use an air lift (for fear of getting caught) and they also did not even reach the actual ships hull (what would be left of it still buried and on top of those remaining 22 chest). It definitely needs looking into and since it's in shallow water and we know the exact location it wouldn't take long to investigate that site anyway.
Tony
Hi Cornelius/Tony
22 chests of I presume pieces of eight, not a bad target. What else was she carrying?
If she went under deep sand quickly then there would be no seabed trace. How accurate is your source for the position for this ship? I have the positions of a few ships myself but have not been to see if they are in fact true. No matter how positive (i.e.the ship in the painting above, I can put myself within 200 meters of that ship for instance from my research). But without visiting I could be quite a way off, especially as the old positions were not as accurate as our GPS system of today and the coastal changes.
But sounds like a great project.
22 chests of I presume pieces of eight, not a bad target. What else was she carrying?
If she went under deep sand quickly then there would be no seabed trace. How accurate is your source for the position for this ship? I have the positions of a few ships myself but have not been to see if they are in fact true. No matter how positive (i.e.the ship in the painting above, I can put myself within 200 meters of that ship for instance from my research). But without visiting I could be quite a way off, especially as the old positions were not as accurate as our GPS system of today and the coastal changes.
But sounds like a great project.
bronzecannons
Full Member
Cablava said:
It was 22 chests of whatever currency the English East India company were commonly carrying those days. Yes, I guess it would have been pieces of eight. I have a copy of the captains actual ships logs and even a map he drew showing the final resting place of this ship. I'm very sure we could find it easily within a few hours. I know the general area cause have dove there around Bangka before.
The ship was actually run aground so the water isn't so deep there. When she settled down the chests were underneath the hull and that's why they were only able to recover 11 of the 33. Those lost chests still remain there buried under the hull. A quick maggie and sub-bottom profile survey should locate the buried hull remains so then just air lift it out and remove it to recover the chests. That's it.
If you can get within 200 meters of your ship from your drawings then that's good enough to do a maggie and sub-bottom profiler survey to be able to easily find that one also.
Tony
Cornelius
You say Jacob Rowe salvaged 32 tons of silver from the wreck.
33 chests onboard. I doubt if each chest weighed 1 ton each however if they did then there would be an empty ship once you dig it out.
32 tons of eight reales coins would be about 800,000 coins. Each chest containing around 24000 coins
How accurate is the date you have. I think I posted recently about a ship I have researched and only recently found a letter from a German soldier who was onboard the wreck, telling of a Schooner going to the wreck about a month after the crew were rescued. I came across the letter by chance reading something no related to the wreck. It them put me to think it could only have gone to salvage the silver on board with or without permission from the EIC.
My point is if it was salvaged then I think much research should be aimed at the salvage story not the shipwreck before we all get hot an bothered.
You say Jacob Rowe salvaged 32 tons of silver from the wreck.
33 chests onboard. I doubt if each chest weighed 1 ton each however if they did then there would be an empty ship once you dig it out.
32 tons of eight reales coins would be about 800,000 coins. Each chest containing around 24000 coins
How accurate is the date you have. I think I posted recently about a ship I have researched and only recently found a letter from a German soldier who was onboard the wreck, telling of a Schooner going to the wreck about a month after the crew were rescued. I came across the letter by chance reading something no related to the wreck. It them put me to think it could only have gone to salvage the silver on board with or without permission from the EIC.
My point is if it was salvaged then I think much research should be aimed at the salvage story not the shipwreck before we all get hot an bothered.
bronzecannons
Full Member
According to my research each chest of the EIC vessels had 4,000 coins each during the late 1700's. And the coins on the Vansittart were a combination of gold and silver coins. The EIC ships also carried gold SOVEREIGN'S (which were large gold coins to the value of 20 shillings first issued in England in 1489).
22 x 4,000 = 88,000 coins and that's certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Gentlemen, Vansittart's treasure is still there under the hull. I am very sure of this.
Tony
22 x 4,000 = 88,000 coins and that's certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Gentlemen, Vansittart's treasure is still there under the hull. I am very sure of this.
Tony
Interestingly Michael hatcher site is not working at last from China. http://www.hatchertreasure.com/
bronzecannons
Full Member
Cornelius said:
Huh? What do we need him for? What.. we have no confidence or experience to go after these wrecks ourselves? Unless you're referring to financing maybe... I'm not sure. Did he ever pay the Indo gov. half of the proceeds earned from the auction of the Geldermalsen? I heard that's the only time they would let him work in their country again.
Tony
seagreen12
Jr. Member
If you need security advice plus an experienced hand at recovery feel free to contact me. Never worked in that area except up near somalia and eritrea very dangerous AO. be carefull.
