Case of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines v. Kingdom of Spain

[Vox veritas]

Case of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines v. Kingdom of Spain

They claimed $ 10 million. Very interesting. We know more truths. And that still need to know!

http://www.itlos.org/start2_en.html

 

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[Panfilo]

Vox, I found this web page for this case:
http://www.worldcourts.com/itlos/eng/decisions/2010.12.23_Saint_Vincent_v_Spain.pdf

Why don't you give us your views of the proceedings?
Panfilo

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox, I found this web page for this case:
http://www.worldcourts.com/itlos/eng/decisions/2010.12.23_Saint_Vincent_v_Spain.pdf

Why don't you give us your views of the proceedings?
Panfilo

Thanks Panfilo.
OK, here are the views.
A sweep operation prepared for unwelcome competitors. All orchestrated with institutional influences. In fact swept the competition. Time will show it.
Because there are open court cases, I can not give more details.
Cheers VV

 

[trinidad]

Vox, you always with the same story. Plots and stuff like that. The Louise was doing what everybody knows she was doing. Fortunately for your "friends", there is a Court and it has to be proved what today is only a consistent supposition. As for everybody else. It sounds strange that you keep quiet about this trial and you didn't stop talking about the Black Swan case, an open court case as the Louise's case. Thanks God you're a naufrologo, not a judge.

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox, you always with the same story. Plots and stuff like that. The Louise was doing what everybody knows she was doing. Fortunately for your "friends", there is a Court and it has to be proved what today is only a consistent supposition. As for everybody else. It sounds strange that you keep quiet about this trial and you didn't stop talking about the Black Swan case, an open court case as the Louise's case. Thanks God you're a naufrologo, not a judge.

Trinidad,
is always the same story until the truth is known and shown publicly.
You have something against? Why you're hiding your identity. Any specific reason?
Cheers VV (Claudio Bonifacio)

 

[trinidad]

I have nothing against treating everybody as a equal before the law. Everybody. I defend that in this forum from the very beginning. I see that you don't: rereading your posts OME is evil and the guys from Louise are angels. Well, I wouldn't say one thing or another. I rather wait until the Court says the last word. Of course, I have my own opinion (as you have yours), and we can have easy talkings here in the forum. And yes, I don't want to show my identity because it could give some problems: I'm Batman.

 

[Vox veritas]

I have nothing against treating everybody as a equal before the law. Everybody. I defend that in this forum from the very beginning. I see that you don't: rereading your posts OME is evil and the guys from Louise are angels. Well, I wouldn't say one thing or another. I rather wait until the Court says the last word. Of course, I have my own opinion (as you have yours), and we can have easy talkings here in the forum. And yes, I don't want to show my identity because it could give some problems: I'm Batman.

Yes,
OME was "officially" 17 tons with some special welfare. And this no doubt. The others of Cadiz and Hamburg courts have to see.
VV

 

[trinidad]

Vox, let me be a little biblical: Matthew 7:3-5
But don't worry, that happens everyday to almost everybody. You can paint it in colors, but the Louise's case is even ugliest than Black Swan's. And I say ugliest, not worthiest.

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox, let me be a little biblical: Matthew 7:3-5
But don't worry, that happens everyday to almost everybody. You can paint it in colors, but the Louise's case is even ugliest than Black Swan's. And I say ugliest, not worthiest.

Less than 3.000 euros (Louisa) and remains to prove where they came from (and is not yet clear whether there was looting), but we all know where it came from OME and other rough details.

 

[trinidad]

There is a little detail that it seems you forgot, Vox: OME told everybody what they took (and to the Court where they recovered the stuff). The Louise's crew was catched with their pants down after months of secret operations. Maybe it sounds the same to you, but it's not. Anyway, all this is not about justice or truth but just sentences from a Court. It sounds the same too, but you and me know that it's not either.

 

[Vox veritas]

There is a little detail that it seems you forgot, Vox: OME told everybody what they took (and to the Court where they recovered the stuff). The Louise's crew was catched with their pants down after months of secret operations. Maybe it sounds the same to you, but it's not. Anyway, all this is not about justice or truth but just sentences from a Court. It sounds the same too, but you and me know that it's not either.

Trinidad, for seven months OME was owner of the Spanish "sovereign" territorial waters of the Strait of Gibraltar without anyone to control them. What have they done? Watch the dolphins go?

 

[jeff k]

There is a little detail that it seems you forgot, Vox: OME told everybody what they took (and to the Court where they recovered the stuff). The Louise's crew was catched with their pants down after months of secret operations. Maybe it sounds the same to you, but it's not. Anyway, all this is not about justice or truth but just sentences from a Court. It sounds the same too, but you and me know that it's not either.

Trinidad, for seven months OME was owner of the Spanish "sovereign" territorial waters of the Strait of Gibraltar without anyone to control them. What have they done? Watch the dolphins go?

That's not true. Odyssey never went into Spanish territorial waters, and the Guardia Civil was always watching them. They always stayed outside of the 12nm limit. I know this because I followed them on AIS Live everyday, and saw this for myself. Can you say the same?

 

[Vox veritas]

There is a little detail that it seems you forgot, Vox: OME told everybody what they took (and to the Court where they recovered the stuff). The Louise's crew was catched with their pants down after months of secret operations. Maybe it sounds the same to you, but it's not. Anyway, all this is not about justice or truth but just sentences from a Court. It sounds the same too, but you and me know that it's not either.

Trinidad, for seven months OME was owner of the Spanish "sovereign" territorial waters of the Strait of Gibraltar without anyone to control them. What have they done? Watch the dolphins go?

That's not true. Odyssey never went into Spanish territorial waters, and the Guardia Civil was always watching them. They always stayed outside of the 12nm limit. I know this because I followed them on AIS Live everyday, and saw this for myself. Can you say the same?

Jeff,
if OME was never in Spanish territorial waters why, since 1998, got permission from Spain (Ministry of Culture and Foreign Affairs)? Being the last of 2007?
Cheers VV

 

[trinidad]

Vox, you can be so tricky that it's difficult to keep the line. You know that aboard the Odyssey they were, in the beginning, two officials from the Spanish Army (when OME was in Spanish waters). Then, OME always informed about their movements to the Spanish authorities. And on, and on and on. This stuff is commented till the extenuation and you know it. You jump from one subject to another avoiding to go into the bottom of the situations. Cheap trick that can be useful before a bunch of children, but this is not the case. More I read your messages, more uncomfortable I feel about them. I always though (and still think) that you are an smart guy. Don't use this gift to cheat us. Be serious, answer what you are asked for and don't treat us as dummies. I don't agree with you in a lot of subjects but I like to "argue" with you. But please, keep the level high and don't write for the audience.

 

[jeff k]

Trinidad... I heard your real name is, Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María.

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox, you can be so tricky that it's difficult to keep the line. You know that aboard the Odyssey they were, in the beginning, two officials from the Spanish Army (when OME was in Spanish waters). Then, OME always informed about their movements to the Spanish authorities. And on, and on and on. This stuff is commented till the extenuation and you know it. You jump from one subject to another avoiding to go into the bottom of the situations. Cheap trick that can be useful before a bunch of children, but this is not the case. More I read your messages, more uncomfortable I feel about them. I always though (and still think) that you are an smart guy. Don't use this gift to cheat us. Be serious, answer what you are asked for and don't treat us as dummies. I don't agree with you in a lot of subjects but I like to "argue" with you. But please, keep the level high and don't write for the audience.

Trinidad,
the presence in Spanish territorial waters of the several ships of OME has been plagued by irregularities, obscurantism, political interference in addition to improper permissions (as can prove some official documents).
I can attest that officers of Spanish Navy attended until 2002 in the M/V Minibex (Sotogrande port), but not thereafter (until 2007), because I met two of them in Sotogrande.
Then we need to know the reasons for other permits issued irregularly to OME.
Cheers VV

 

[trinidad]

Christ! It's impossible to keep an argument. I still remember when you say that OME didn't have permission. When it was proved that they do, you talk about improper permissions, but you forget to say that if they were improper it wasn't because an action of OME. The singular spanish territorial administration was the cause of the issue, not the activity of OME on the Strait of Gibraltar. OME talk to Spain first and when the Junta de Andalucía complain about it, OME had a meeting with the second official in charge at the Consejería de Cultura de la Junta de Andalucía. Is this obscurantism and political interference? And if it does, what was the Louise´s activity? Gangsterism? Anyway, it surprise me that you talk about irregular permissions and political interferences about OME-Sussex and you don't mention a line about the close and productive relationship beetween a high ex official from the Ministry of Culture of Spain and a very good know spanish "salvor". Vox, you know the whole story from "first hand" and you come here reclaiming I don't know what. What are you talking about, for chrissake!

 

[Vox veritas]

Christ! It's impossible to keep an argument. I still remember when you say that OME didn't have permission. When it was proved that they do, you talk about improper permissions, but you forget to say that if they were improper it wasn't because an action of OME. The singular spanish territorial administration was the cause of the issue, not the activity of OME on the Strait of Gibraltar. OME talk to Spain first and when the Junta de Andalucía complain about it, OME had a meeting with the second official in charge at the Consejería de Cultura de la Junta de Andalucía. Is this obscurantism and political interference? And if it does, what was the Louise´s activity? Gangsterism? Anyway, it surprise me that you talk about irregular permissions and political interferences about OME-Sussex and you don't mention a line about the close and productive relationship beetween a high ex official from the Ministry of Culture of Spain and a very good know spanish "salvor". Vox, you know the whole story from "first hand" and you come here reclaiming I don't know what. What are you talking about, for chrissake!

About the Louisa, the courts say. Do not rush to prejudge. Be very careful with hasty opinions. If the state of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines has a claim against Spain, is for some reason. About irregular permits, I make reference to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 2007 and earlier.

 

[trinidad]

Finally, Vox, we both agree. Let's don't prejudice anybody. I didn't do it with the Louise's case. I just said that if you talk about OME-Sussex case in those terms, how should be qualified the Louise's. I didn't say a word to defend OME but to defend the clarification of what happened and still happens in Sussex and Black Swan cases. That's all. But don't pretend to lapidate OME (or any other) before a sentence from a Court and at the same time ask for prudence and not prejudging Louise's case without an answer from somebody that has read all your post here in this forum. That's all.
PD: Vox, please, don't get mad. This is just a good talking among forum friends.

 

[jeff k]

CHRONOLOGY OF ALL EXCHANGES BETWEEN ODYSSEY MARINE EXPLORATION INC ("OME") AND SPAIN (including the SPANISH MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS; the MINISTRY OF CULTURE; the GUARDIA CIVIL AND THE JUNTA DE ANDALUCIA) JULY 1998 - JUNE 2007

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/florida/flmdce/8:2007cv00614/197978/25/2.html

Scroll down to page 6. The Spanish version is at the end.