Cast copper spearpoint

[digordie]

Check this out. Found by a friend of mine, 15 feet underwater in Wisconsin. He claims it was a sight sunken into a lake on private land. It was cast not hammered. Hammered points have been found on the same sight as well. Any thoughts?

 

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[Glenn C]

My thought is wow. Nice pieces. I have not seen the ends like that. Really nice!

 

[Steve0]

Nice copper cast point, where ever it is from. Havent seen any out of copper but seen some of iron. Ask your friend again but this point doesn not have patina from being a water find even 1 to 15 feet deep

 

[Glenn C]

I'm a little confused I'm used to seeing archaic copper like these.
Those look roman

 

[Steve0]

Accually I think where i seen them was a friend bought some from china,

 

[Bum Luck]

I can't recall ever seeing or hearing about a native American cast point, or even the technology to do it, and I've seen hundreds of them.

 

[digordie]

Here are some more from north dakota on the missouri river. This pic is from a diff guy who posted it in the stone artifact section. The guy has over 400 of these he has found around there over the years. Notice the solid copper cast sword incuding the handle on the bottom. Im convinced these ancient people where more intelligent than we give them credit for.

 

[Glenn C]

I do not believe those items are archaic. If so they are not from north america IMO. They may be more recent as in later then than 17 century. I am no expert but they look to well made for 4000 plus years ago in this area.

 

[digordie]

Guess i would have to say that i dont know any historic time period native americans with these skills either. My bet is that they are ancient and im almost 100% sure they were found in the US.

 

[Bum Luck]

Here are some more from north dakota on the missouri river. This pic is from a diff guy who posted it in the stone artifact section. The guy has over 400 of these he has found around there over the years. Notice the solid copper cast sword incuding the handle on the bottom. Im convinced these ancient people where more intelligent than we give them credit for.

I was NOT making a statement about their intelligence. There is a huge difference between intelligence and skill sets. If anything, I think they were more intelligent than we are, for many reasons. I've had many conversations about this with anthropologists. Think about it this way: we couldn't have biologically 'evolved' much in two generations, but most folks you ask would say we are much smarter than our grandfathers. Not true. Two could be 10 or 20 generations and so what?

Some of these copper items look European. The sword in particular.

 

[hotrod]

cool

 

[digordie]

I was NOT making a statement about their intelligence. There is a huge difference between intelligence and skill sets. If anything, I think they were more intelligent than we are, for many reasons. I've had many conversations about this with anthropologists. Think about it this way: we couldn't have biologically 'evolved' much in two generations, but most folks you ask would say we are much smarter than our grandfathers. Not true. Two could be 10 or 20 generations and so what?

Some of these copper items look European. The sword in particular.

You make a good point, yet my question is why would the Europeans make swords of solid copper when they had the knowledge and skills to use iron, steel, or even brass or bronze to make such weapons. All of these metals would be much stronger than copper. Yet all we find in North America from the ancients is stone and copper weaponry. Makes more sense to me that they were made right here on U.S. soil where raw pure copper abounds by the hoards.

 

[Bum Luck]

You make a good point, yet my question is why would the Europeans make swords of solid copper when they had the knowledge and skills to use iron, steel, or even brass or bronze to make such weapons. All of these metals would be much stronger than copper. Yet all we find in North America from the ancients is stone and copper weaponry. Makes more sense to me that they were made right here on U.S. soil where raw pure copper abounds by the hoards.

First, those skills weren't universal across Europe at the same period. They were developed over time. There was a European "Copper Age", between the 5th and 6th millennium BC. The Bronze Age began about 2800 BC with the Bell Beaker culture. The Iron Age began from about 800 BC, spreading to northern Europe by 500 BC. Just a simple matter of a few thousand years, and different cultures.

Again, I've seen many hundreds of copper pieces in old collections indisputably found here, and never saw a copper sword. My guess is they're fake or from Europe. Many of these things are being found across Europe with metal detectors and are for sale on eBay and other places less traceable.

One old guy I used to buy from said that old copper is brown like a penny, whereas fake stuff has a green patina, easy to do. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Yetie]

Unlikely

Someone is pullin your leg. These are not north American pieces. They look to be from Turkey or somewhere in the Mid East. Also as pointed out the patination for a water find is wrong. Let us know what you find out when you get the real story.

 

[Glenn C]

Here is 2 inch conical I found recently. It is smaller than the last one I posted. Notice the black crust on it from being in a swampy area. It goes from black to red to green patina in that order. You can also see it was folded and forged by hand. No cast involved.

 

[Backbacon]

I'm sorry but this is in no way a North American Made Ancient Artifact. Good luck trying to make that from pounding a stone into a raw piece of Copper. Very cool find though. What detector was he using? Or just found it while snorkeling?

 

[digordie]

He told me he has divers excavating the sight. Not to sure how trust worthy he is either. I only see him about twice a year at shows etc.

 

[Backbacon]

I also agree with the patina being all wrong for a water find. I truly think he is messing with you. Must be a big chunk of property in order to have a private lake to excavate. (one reason why I think he's bsing you, unless a Chinese ship sunk on his private inland lake) Look on ebay.
Antique Bronze Chinese ancient combat tools 3Copper arrow arrowhead | eBay

 

[esox]

Oh, digordie. Ive been bitting my tounge sence you first posted this. I knew of this when he first claimed this. Atleast a month before you posted. But he claimed the manni river at that time. Privet lake? You cant hunt those in Wisconsin. Unless you wanna break the law. Or river for that matter. He stomps around my home turf and flaps his jaw to everyone every other week that he made another amazing discovery. Check out his youtube vidio. Type in copper culture. I wonder how he got a picture of MY D-Handle in his vidio? Its not his. Its mine. And if you see scott again. Please tell him to please return gregs pistol that he borrowed and never returned and put in a vidio about the capones and also claimed he found. But didnt. Sorry but I had it up to here with his B.S. Stay in ashland Scott. If you want one of the spearpoints like the one he claims he found. Theres still plenty left on Ebay. And SteveO. I always liked your posts. Thanks for keeping it real. Sorry again for my little rant. Last thing I want is to find out is that all my copper artifacts are made in china. Thanks alot mitchy! Oh. Dont go across the street. Cleaned out the 200 you missed.

 

[digordie]

Hey there. That guy in the youtube video you mentioned is not the same guy who showed me this point. They may be connected in some way though. The youtuber didnt show anything as detailed or advanced in craftsmanship as the point ive posted.