CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Ty Cobb has a distinctive nose and oval shaped ears. Do you think the guy's nose and ears in my photo are the same?

SBB

Ty Cobb's Nose and Ears 1913.



My Photo Cropped.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[cw0909]

hi bob i lightened up the img,his ear is more round than mine and most people i know
looks like a logo on his boot,ill add to the img GE list,as time allows,i think the GE,can
prob be solved,though it may take sometime,and that might lead to the Bplayer hopefully

found an img of a offset GE
Quick Description: This wooden grain elevator is at the south end of Main St on the east side of Elm Creek, Manitoba
Grain Elevator - Elm Creek MB - Grain Elevators on Waymarking.com
a list of imgs of GEs
bruce selyem country grain elevator photographs - links
Grain Elevator Types 1: Pre- and Early (IHS Built Environment Typology)

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

cw0909 ~

Thank you for taking the time to help out with this baffling quandry. My head is spinning with all of the new information.

I did notice the Logo (or whatever that is on his stocking) but so far have not been able to make sense of it or find anything that matches. However, it is a great clue and one in which I intend to pursue closer. Below are some links to one of the websites I have been looking at that list just about every baseball logo ever conceived. Check it out. Maybe you or someone else can find some possibles.

By the way, I have also researched "Baseball Stockings" in general, and as yet have not found any examples of logos being applied to or stitched on them. But I'm still looking. If it is a logo and it can be identified, then it will be a giant leap forward.

I'm beginning to think that identifying the Grain Elevator will eventually lead to solving the Who, What, Where and When of the photograph.

American League:
AL Logos - American League Logos - Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Page - SportsLogos.Net

National League:
NL Logos - National League Logos - Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Page - SportsLogos.Net

All Leagues - Including Minors and Foreign:
Baseball Logos - Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Page - SportsLogos.Net


Thanks again to all.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

Regarding the so called logo on the stocking, I'm sure we all agree that it's a Circle shape. So I'd say anything other than a circle-shape can be eliminated.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~ PS

Here's a sketch I did of what the stocking logo looks like to me. Hopefully it will lead to something. Click on cw0909's cropped image for a closer look.

SBB

 

[DCMatt]

PS ~

Regarding the so called logo on the stocking, I'm sure we all agree that it's a Circle shape. So I'd say anything other than a circle-shape can be eliminated.

SBB

Bob,

Keep in mind that it could be a hole. Playing ball you can get a hole in your stocking - darn it!

DCMatt

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS~PS~PS

"Maybe" its a big C but the fabric is wrinkled and we can't see the opened-end part on the right side. But the only big C I was able to find that had a "solid blob" in the center was ...

Chicago Cubs ~ 1916

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Bob,

Keep in mind that it could be a hole.

Matt ~

You're probably right. Plus, I'm beginning to think I have "holes" in my head. (Lol)

Thanks.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS~PS~PS~PS

Unless someone has anything new to add, and after carefull examination of all the evidence, I'm convinced that the only way to possibly identify the player is to identify the grain elevator first. So with that said, I'm now focusing 100% of my attention to the elevator. If it's still standing or a picture was ever taken of it, I hope to find.

SBB

 

[Masonlid]

I may be wrong but isnt Cobb batting left? Your photo has a righty...I think..lol

 

[Masonlid]

Never mind....he batted left and threw right..lol

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Speaking of Grain Elevetors, my focus will be with those that have an "Offset Copula," which is what the upper portion of the structure is called. I will also be looking for "Squat Copulas" vs "Tall Copulas." I have already discovered that the majority of them have "Tall" ones. The copula in the photograph is "Offset and Squat."

SBB

Types of Elevators:

Despite the CPR's demand for standard elevators, there was considerable variation in profile, height and storage capacity of the earliest elevators, especially in Manitoba. The first grain elevator, a wooden, silo-like building, was constructed in 1879 by William Hespeler at Niverville. A more familiar form made its appearance in 1881 at Gretna when Ogilvie Milling Company built a wooden, square, 25 000-bushel elevator. While companies like Ogilvie preferred an elevator with a pyramidal roof and a centrally located pyramidal-roofed cupola, others opted for an offset cupola. Yet other companies chose a gable roof with a gable-roofed cupola. Although some companies in Saskatchewan and Alberta preferred a pyramidal- roofed elevator and cupola, by the 1920s most companies were building the standard, or traditional, 30 - 40 000-bushel elevator with a gable roof and a gable-roofed cupola. Dimensions varied according to bushel capacity but were typically 33 x 32 feet, which gave the elevator a height of more than 80 feet. No other building dominated the skyline as did the elevator.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize the picture below is not of the elevator in question. I'm only posting it as a possible clue. The elevator pictured is/was located in Linzburg, Illinois and, if nothing else, establishes that elevators with squat and offset copulas can be found and did exist at some point in the midwest. But finding the exact one will be like looking for a needle in a haystack. (Pun intended).

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I don't want to jump the gun here, and won't. Nor do I intend to post a picture of every grain elevator I find which looks similar. However, I just gotta say that Illinois and Indiana are looking like very strong candidates. I've already found enough elevator pictures from those two states to fully establish that that form of structure was definitely popular there in the early part of the 20th century. So much so in fact, that I'm going to switch gears for the time being and see what I can find related to Illinois and Indiana baseball ~ Major/Minor/Farm/Bush/Training ~ Anything and everything.

Thanks for allowing me to indulge myself here. It's what I do best!

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize this isn't an exact match, but imagine what this elevator might look like if viewed from the opposite side beyond the trees. And its taller than it looks - the Pepsi machine in front is at least 6' foot high. I estimate the entire structure to be about 70' feet high. This is typical of what I have been seeing from Indiana and Illinois.

SBB

Hobbs, Indiana.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Believe it or not there are actually people who collect pictures of old grain elevators. I sent inquiries to several of them and just received this reply from a guy named Bruce.

Hi Bob,

Great old photo. I suspect your thinking of the midwest around 1910 for the photo is close. The style of the elevators is definitely more midwest than west but there's no way to be specific, even specific enough to state level. About that time there were probably close to 20,000 elevators in the U.S., most of them in the midwest. I have acquired some old grain elevator photos that all I can do in my cataloging is call them "unidentified." That's not real satisfying but sometimes I have to accept that status. Wish I could be of more help ...

Best wishes,

Bruce



Well, at least I know what I'm up against now. I only have about 19,999 more pictures to look at. No problem! It will only take me the rest of my life. But I'm not giving up or allowing it to discourage me. Somebody out there probably sees that old elevator every day. So all I have to do now is find that "one" person.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's another reply I received ...

Bob,

I have not photographed anything in Illinois or Indiana. Looking at your images, I couldn't pin point where this elevator was located. I'm sorry that I am not much help. I am wondering if the photo isn't from the 1920's or 1930's? The way the elevator is constructed, it does not appear that it was built around 1900 or even 1910. It's the headhouse that leads me thinking that it was built later. Plus, the corrugated siding is on it, too. Most elevators that were built during the period of 1900-1920 were built from wood with no siding applied to the wood, like they did in later years. Give me some more time to think about this. On the down side, that elevator is probably not standing today. It probably has either been torn down or it burnt.

I am writing a friend of mine. I will see what he says about when corrugated siding was first used on elevators. I will send your e-mail to him. Maybe he has some ideas. I wish I could have given you a better idea.

Regards,

Gary

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm not sure when metal siding was first used on grain elevators, but I did find this ...

Corrugated Galvanized Iron (CGI) was invented in the 1820s in Britain by Henry Palmer.

Wrought iron CGI was gradually replaced by mild steel from around the 1890s.

Corrugated galvanised iron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

corrugated tin roofing

 

[zendog64]

possibly fogured out location of photo

I beleive the picture was taken in Chioko, Minnesota.

A small city, but an important stop on the Great Northern Railway. During the era your picture was taken, most teams traveled by train, so Chokio seems like a good possibility. The town has a rich baseball heritage and I've seen at least 5 different grain elevators in pictures of Chokio, and the train station was located night next to the elevators.

Old Chokio, MN photos -----here's a pic of the 1937 Chokio baseball team. Note the player on the top row right- he's wearing a belt and also has the same style cap, so these types of uniforms were worn at least up until the 1930s at a amateur or high school level.

Old Chokio, MN photos -----here's a picture of 5 grain elevators in a row in Chokio...notice that each one is in a different shape. In your picture, there appears to be a second elevator of a different shape to the right of the main elevator. In your picture, the main elevator is a lighter color to the elevator on the right. If you look closely at the picture of Chokio's elevators, at the very end is a light elevator standing next to a darker elevator.

In the below picture, you'll see a modern view of one of the elevators in Chokio, flanked by trees which look to be of the same species as the trees in the baseball pic. Also, if you look to the left of the main elevator in the baseball pic, in the background there appears to be the same type of short, squat storage silo in the background, like in the modern pic. In the modern pic, you'll also notice that to the right there is a large empty field (ideal for baseball).


Google Image Result for http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/60930454.jpg


But the MOST convincing evidence can be found by looking at a satellite map of Chokio (Panoramio - Photo of Chokio Grain Elevator). If you look at the map, you'll see that First Ave. runs along the grain elevators, and directly below the elevators, a BASEBALL FIELD can be found on Second Avenue, about 100 yards or so from the elevators, just like in the baseball pic.

By comparing all of these locations, the baseball player in your picture would be standing just beyond the right field fence of the Chioko baseball field, where the white house in the satellite image currently stands. This angle would justify the two different colored grain elevators in the baseball pic and the short silo. If my theory is correct, the photographer would be shooting the picture facing north (north by northeast, to be exact). Since baseball games and practices are often late afternoon affairs, and since the sun sets in the west, this explains the shadow to the right of the ballplayer.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zendog54 ~

I see some of what you mentioned, but will need more time to digest everything. Take a look at the picture below and, if possible, save it and then paint X's or reference numbers on the exact locations you are referring to. I see the modern baseball field to the southwest between 3rd and 4th Ave, but I'm not sure what you are referring to as a baseball field on 2nd Ave.

Thanks.

SBB

Northwest Corner



Southwest Corner