CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS

[Rebel - KGC]

Have YOU found it, Ken...?

 

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[legrand]

"YOU"....no, Rebel, not me. I am under strict confidentiality not to reveal "who," "what," and "how". Yet, there are seven sites, six of them national historical sites, located by my effort, that defy inspection. This is telling. The Beale Papers' secret writing lead one to these sites. One vault, belonging to another, that can be opened, is not yet. This is published information. We've been through a lot of this already before on forum lines. ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE leads somewhere. On its own, it is suspect..it leads somewhere...

 

[Old Silver]

Just curious, but how would Robert Morriss have known the meaning of ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE? Not saying you're wrong, just wondering.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

"YOU"....no, Rebel, not me. I am under strict confidentiality not to reveal "who," "what," and "how". Yet, there are seven sites, six of them national historical sites, located by my effort, that defy inspection. This is telling. The Beale Papers' secret writing lead one to these sites. One vault, belonging to another, that can be opened, is not yet. This is published information. We've been through a lot of this already before on forum lines. ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE leads somewhere. On its own, it is suspect..it leads somewhere...

A golden ticket in a Wonka bar.
No seriously . . . I liked your post.

 

[legrand]

Old Silver...I am of the bent that the Beale Papers story is fiction. Yet it has contained within it at least three methodologies of hiding of secret text/message. I am fundamentally a disbeliever of the facts within the story. Also, I suspect that Poe was involved with the creation of at least Code 1. This code is the one I am concerned with and have found ciphered message within it as the posts indicate above. So, I don't have an answer for your question about Robert Morris knowing ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE as it is a product of Edgar Allan Poe. The video posted will delineate this sentiment. As far as who wrote the story surrounding the Codes, well I have my ideas...when all is revealed, I think we'll know soon enough. Old Silver, if you wish to discuss this further in a private fashion, contact me through email that I have posted above. Thanks.

Benjamin Gates: Thanks for your comment.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

"Ere" - before

Ere | Define Ere at Dictionary.com

Quick search . . . can't seem to find "ERE" being a variant of "EAR" . . . can you elaborate legrand?

 

[bigscoop]

Here again, with so many codes available and nothing to restrict one's personal application of them, well, they can be managed to say most anything our hearts desire if we are simply compelled to work at it long enough. This is, after all, the entire point to using such codes. Over the years we have witnessed all manner of these arrangements which only serves to solidify the cold hard fact being made; "If you desire it to be so then it can be."

 

[legrand]

View attachment 1325599

Bigscoop: "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE" ultimately leads to the above photo. See how exactly 42.5 standard bricks can be built to hide an interior cache? Yes, the encryption is sparse; however, it is all that was needed to lead this investigator to the quoin unit...yeah, look up the word. Might I recommend the 1949 Webster's New International Dictionary - Second Edition - Unabridged - 3210 pages which leads me to:

Benjamin: Great observation and here is the explanation..."Ere. > variation of Ear > Meaning: to plow ... Usage: And life's a test for any plough to ere." And, in correspondence with Jim Gillogly [ www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0161-118091854979 ] he advises that he located the usage of "ere" as to "plow" prior to 1819 by 200 years, he said, according to a note I have pasted in my dictionary.

Bigscoop: Your comment here: "they can be managed to say most anything our hearts desire if we are simply compelled to work at it long enough." First of all, I read the Beale Papers fictional story and within two hours decoded "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE" from the first 16 numbers in Code 1 (reversing the plain text as intended) . The plain text fell out onto the table from a letter for letter substitution cipher. I "managed" nothing, but rather scientifically used the last letter of the DOI word to reveal the plain text. Your comment is erroneous, misleads and seems to attempt to derail this discussion. I would prefer not to encounter silly messages. Thank you.

 

[bigscoop]

View attachment 1325599

Bigscoop: "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE" ultimately leads to the above photo. See how exactly 42.5 standard bricks can be built to hide an interior cache? Yes, the encryption is sparse; however, it is all that was needed to lead this investigator to the quoin unit...yeah, look up the word. Might I recommend the 1949 Webster's New International Dictionary - Second Edition - Unabridged - 3210 pages which leads me to:

Benjamin: Great observation and here is the explanation..."Ere. > variation of Ear > Meaning: to plow ... Usage: And life's a test for any plough to ere." And, in correspondence with Jim Gillogly [ www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0161-118091854979 ] he advises that he located the usage of "ere" as to "plow" prior to 1819 by 200 years, he said, according to a note I have pasted in my dictionary.

Bigscoop: Your comment here: "they can be managed to say most anything our hearts desire if we are simply compelled to work at it long enough." First of all, I read the Beale Papers fictional story and within two hours decoded "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE" from the first 16 numbers in Code 1 (reversing the plain text as intended) . The plain text fell out onto the table from a letter for letter substitution cipher. I "managed" nothing, but rather scientifically used the last letter of the DOI word to reveal the plain text. Your comment is erroneous, misleads and seems to attempt to derail this discussion. I would prefer not to encounter silly messages. Thank you.

First off, my comment is not erroneous at all. Over the years there have been a number of proposed "segmented solutions" like that which you provide, so my current position on the matter is well supported. And what do I mean by "segmented?" This is the selection of only segments that happen to accommodate one's personal goals, a portion of the remaining cipher, sometimes more - sometimes less, never quite fitting into the scheme of things. This is a pattern that is well documented in the long history of proposed cipher solutions. So "erroneous?" Actually quite the opposite as this trend is present nearly each and every time.

Second, the shear amount of single use codes in the cipher allows for endless values to be placed on these codes, and with no means to confirm the accuracy of these values then they can literally become whatever filler might be required.

Third, do you have any idea just how many solutions have surfaced over the years simply due to the above two factors? We both are well aware that many have. So my comment was anything but erroneous, it is actually based on the long running history of many proposed solutions.

 

[legrand]

Bigscoop: I concede that there are many "segmented" solutions. My plain text is not segmented. It is, what it is, simply a short encryption. In 2005, when this line was identified, there was no preconceived idea(s) as to the result of the plain text or where it would lead to. In other words, I did not create the plain text out of thin air for an agenda. The plain text is plain and simply, a result of a simple substitution cipher. The cryptographer intended to use the spaces for 16 letters and encrypted his message. In reverse to boot. Do you fully understand this methodology...especially the last lengthy paragraph? :

I have a decipherment of B1. It's short...only the first 16 coded numbers substitute out to a plaintext of directions on where to dig (even if a treasure does not exist). I have read the Gillogly paper and agree that the majority of the cryptogram is random numbers....I think the Gillogly string was injected into the selection of random choices to throw off later cryptanalysts and further hide the first 16 characters. B2 was fraught with error and I think that B1 was created by the author of the pamphlet after B2; B1 being short and sweet because the encoder was probably tired of counting letters in the DOI which is the key to B1. The DOI is applied in a special manner to B1 and the short plaintext appears as follows:

ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE

Ere is a variation of the word ear which means to plow. Fen is a low land or spot. Due means exactly. Red Knee is likely the name of a spot that is currently unknown to me and to other apparently as I have published this plaintext in two newspaper articles in hopes to locate red knee.

---

The original pamplet DOI is the key to B1 (to arrive at my decipherment). DOI word #111 in the original pamplet is "their" instead what it should be: "these". And, between words #154 and #155 (institute and new) is inserted (incorrectly) the word: "a". These two mistakes in the original pamplet are necessary to arrive at my decipherment.

My small error in determining word #71 I believe was the same error committed by the author of B1. Word #70 was mistakingly thought to be "separation" and therefore the word "we" was selected as word #71. When you come to encoded #76, commit the same error (logically).

Run this by selecting the LAST letter of each word for the first 16 encoded numbers. Place a question mark for encoded numbers over 1322 (there are two). Reverse the order of letters selected and arrive at:

ere fen d?e red ?nee

---

Perhaps you have found the one "K" that ends the word "mock" in the original pamphlet DOI; I think it's word #697 (not sure right now about this). The author of B1 could have selected the word "mock" to indicate a "K" for "knee". The only other letter that could be selected by the future cryptanalyst is "s" for "snee" (no other english words end with nee). Snee is a word in the dictionary, but does not make sense in a final plaintext. Likewise, the "U" makes the most sense for the final plaintext and "U" does not appear as the final letter of any word in the DOI. Because these letters were not located by the author of B1 in the DOI, he selected ecoded numbers for the cryptogram over 1322 to indicate that some extra work would be necessary to fill in the gaps. This theory seems to make the most sense. Therefore, ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE jumps right out at you; this does not seem to be coincidence or anything but an intended message....especially since the plaintext is backwards!James Gillogly's paper: The Beale Cipher: A Dissenting Opinion (on line). This paper indicates a string of letters that indicate that the pamphlet DOI is the key to B1, but that B1 MAY also be a hoax. Well, most of the cryptogram is a hoax except for the well hidden ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE. I am not concerned about the error I made with word #71 as there were many errors in the encipherment of B2 as well.
The plaintext is very short and to the point. If one finds red knee, one digs at the low spot and perhaps finds what is hidden? Is there a treasure? I don't know for sure. What I do know is that a message was placed in B1 and this is a huge find.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Wonder why a foreign language...? Looks Irish; Irish Gap on Blue Ridge Parkway...? The Irish did a lot of work building Rail Road Tracks & a tunnel or two in Nelson & Amherst Counties... MAYBE in Bedford County, VIRGINIA. MANY graves of the IRISH in those hills...

 

[franklin]

Could have, would have, should have, I believe, I found all erroneous statements. When you get away from the story of the Beale Papers you have left the search for the Beale Treasure. Everything you are doing proves nothing to no one but yourself. If not for movies and books you like the rest of us have found nothing about the Beale Treasure at all. Why they let you post your book sales in post is beyond me, they never would let me. But keep the post alive maybe some fish will bite.

 

[releventchair]

O.K. I'll bite and force the square peg in the round hole as in an old barn construction.
ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE
Scots/Scots-Irish headed south (low), to the Okefenokee Swamp.
In the swamp are gum trees for hives and nesting and nectar providing plants in areas among workable ground above the squishy waters(FEN) that made bees a popular work. The red-legged honeycreeper would not be a stranger , but more to add to knees if the red legged creeper is not enough to confirm location of Scots south and fen.... are the cypress's knees. Other people before (ERE) the Scots were ,and I mean no offense called red, and wore leggings perhaps of red trade cloth in a particular locale..
So...that narrows it down to about 438,000 acres to start looking.

 

[franklin]

If you take the Beale Papers as written you would have only 32, 154 acres to search all within four miles of Buford's. I believe I will keep my search in Bedford County, Virginia. Nice hills and valleys, don't like the swamps. About 93% less area to search and better terrain.

 

[bigscoop]

Bigscoop: I concede that there are many "segmented" solutions. My plain text is not segmented. It is, what it is, simply a short encryption. In 2005, when this line was identified, there was no preconceived idea(s) as to the result of the plain text or where it would lead to. In other words, I did not create the plain text out of thin air for an agenda. The plain text is plain and simply, a result of a simple substitution cipher. The cryptographer intended to use the spaces for 16 letters and encrypted his message. In reverse to boot. Do you fully understand this methodology...especially the last lengthy paragraph? :

I have a decipherment of B1. It's short...only the first 16 coded numbers substitute out to a plaintext of directions on where to dig (even if a treasure does not exist). I have read the Gillogly paper and agree that the majority of the cryptogram is random numbers....I think the Gillogly string was injected into the selection of random choices to throw off later cryptanalysts and further hide the first 16 characters. B2 was fraught with error and I think that B1 was created by the author of the pamphlet after B2; B1 being short and sweet because the encoder was probably tired of counting letters in the DOI which is the key to B1. The DOI is applied in a special manner to B1 and the short plaintext appears as follows:

ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE

Ere is a variation of the word ear which means to plow. Fen is a low land or spot. Due means exactly. Red Knee is likely the name of a spot that is currently unknown to me and to other apparently as I have published this plaintext in two newspaper articles in hopes to locate red knee.

---

The original pamplet DOI is the key to B1 (to arrive at my decipherment). DOI word #111 in the original pamplet is "their" instead what it should be: "these". And, between words #154 and #155 (institute and new) is inserted (incorrectly) the word: "a". These two mistakes in the original pamplet are necessary to arrive at my decipherment.

My small error in determining word #71 I believe was the same error committed by the author of B1. Word #70 was mistakingly thought to be "separation" and therefore the word "we" was selected as word #71. When you come to encoded #76, commit the same error (logically).

Run this by selecting the LAST letter of each word for the first 16 encoded numbers. Place a question mark for encoded numbers over 1322 (there are two). Reverse the order of letters selected and arrive at:

ere fen d?e red ?nee

---

Perhaps you have found the one "K" that ends the word "mock" in the original pamphlet DOI; I think it's word #697 (not sure right now about this). The author of B1 could have selected the word "mock" to indicate a "K" for "knee". The only other letter that could be selected by the future cryptanalyst is "s" for "snee" (no other english words end with nee). Snee is a word in the dictionary, but does not make sense in a final plaintext. Likewise, the "U" makes the most sense for the final plaintext and "U" does not appear as the final letter of any word in the DOI. Because these letters were not located by the author of B1 in the DOI, he selected ecoded numbers for the cryptogram over 1322 to indicate that some extra work would be necessary to fill in the gaps. This theory seems to make the most sense. Therefore, ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE jumps right out at you; this does not seem to be coincidence or anything but an intended message....especially since the plaintext is backwards!James Gillogly's paper: The Beale Cipher: A Dissenting Opinion (on line). This paper indicates a string of letters that indicate that the pamphlet DOI is the key to B1, but that B1 MAY also be a hoax. Well, most of the cryptogram is a hoax except for the well hidden ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE. I am not concerned about the error I made with word #71 as there were many errors in the encipherment of B2 as well.
The plaintext is very short and to the point. If one finds red knee, one digs at the low spot and perhaps finds what is hidden? Is there a treasure? I don't know for sure. What I do know is that a message was placed in B1 and this is a huge find.

Didn't you just describe the exact process that I'm saying is present in nearly every proposed solution? It is segmented, there is the claim of author/coder mistakes, etc., etc. And there also resides a measure of convenient calculation that only works when achieving the desired result. This is all I am pointing out, that these same factors/elements always exist in the long list of proposed solutions - because the purpose of a cipher is to allow that can.

A typical proposed solution will harbor 3 to 5 shifts from the original process, these often including shifts such as a change in the applied language, the altering of the original code and/or key or even the complete abandoning of the remainder, etc., etc., etc. Isn't this exactly what you just presented?

 

[releventchair]

If you take the Beale Papers as written you would have only 32, 154 acres to search all within four miles of Buford's. I believe I will keep my search in Bedford County, Virginia. Nice hills and valleys, don't like the swamps. About 93% less area to search and better terrain.

What was red there? Besides newspapers...

 

[franklin]

What was red there? Besides newspapers...

Indian settlements near Buford's

 

[releventchair]

Ahhh!

 

[ECS]

These people are wrong... !!

[h=2]CODEBREAKER COMMENTS ABOUT BEALE CIPHERS[/h]

"lies rather beyond the range of possibility"- Col George Fabyan
"diabolical ingenuity, specifically designed to lure the unwary reader"- William Friedman
"nothing more or less than a hoax"- Elizabeth Smith Friedman
"the Beale treasure is likely to be a hoax, invented by whomever authored the Beale Papers"-
Dr Todd Mateer​

...and there is a very strong possibility that you are also wrong.
Are you still connecting the Beale story and codes to Edgar Allen Poe and Ralph Waldo Emerson when you first presented "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE"?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Indian settlements near Buford's

YEP! "Red Knee" is BIG LICK (aka Roanoke...), in VIRGINIA. To CLARIFY: Back in the OLDEST of days, Roanoke/Big Lick was AKA the GREAT SALT MARSH, where wild animals would come & lick the salt in various areas. THENCE, it became BIG LICK (I am NOT making this up... to quote Dave Berry). SO! Plow up near Roanoke area... PROBABLY near Bonsack, on Rt. 460, as you go into Roanoke, Va. Dunno.