Coin sorters - More Pics Added 6/26/11

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
I bought a Coinalyzer coin sorter recently and was having issues with it. This was discussed a little bit in another thread, but I felt it needed a thread of its own to keep from hijacking that other thread.

My first post there is;
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,393353.msg2802679.html#msg2802679

I will continue here;
kb4iqm said:
blkcwbyhat said:
KB: do you have a divider set up under the bottom? It kicks the rejects to one side,without it,they fall randomly.I made the wooden box thing with the center piece belt sanded with a 45 degree on each side,centered on the outlet.I made the box big enough to fit some small tupperware square boxes on each side.I'm still working on some type of thing to make it easier to feed,my thumb gets sore quick!!
The coinalyzer is an electronic coin mechanism for a vending machine and fits the industry standard coin mechanism mounts. I used to be in the vending business and still have some machines and parts in storage. I took an old vending machine coin door, stripped it down to the bare minimum, and made a stand to hold it vertical. I mounted the coinalyzer in place of the original mechanical coin mechanism, it fits perfectly. All I have to do is set a pail under the back of the coin door to catch the coins that pass. All rejects and coin returns go into the coin return hopper on the front of the coin door. The pass/reject/return port spacings on the coinalyzer are in the industry standard locations.

When I first set it up, it worked, but it had trouble discriminating reliably. It would pass some of what it should reject, and reject some of what it should pass. If I ran multiple passes it would eventially get them all right. Like if I run the reject clad cents through several times it would eventually get all of the copper out. Then do the same with the coppers and it would eventually get all of the clads out. After testing it like this for an hour or so, it stopped passing coins totally and rejecting everything fed to it. I put it aside to mess with later, have not tried it again since then.

If I can get the coin mechanism itself to work reliably, then I'll just set up a dime feed hopper from a slot machine with the discs resized for pennies. These hoppers can be bought for under $50 from vending suppliers that sell used parts on feebay, and replacement discs are available as they wear out. Would be less than $100 invested to automate the process if I do all of the mechanical work to put it together. Now that I think we can afford :laughing7:

Bob
I just checked the coinalyzer and it was working again, but still very unreliable. I noticed the trigger timer was set to "short". I set the trigger timer to "common" and that cleared up the majority of the reliability issue. I'm now getting a clad in the copper 100:1 or less now vs 10:1 like it was. I've run 6 rolls so far and no coppers in the clad yet. I'll run the rest of the box and see how it does.

By the way, the coinalyzer mechanism will support adding a coin counter. It outputs a grounding pulse on the grey wire for every coin accepted. If you connect the leads of a vending machine coin counter to the grey wire and the red wire, it will increment the counter once for each coin accepted. I'm going to order a resettable counter for mine.

Bob
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

I was about to post an update here when I noticed another new post about coin sorters. Talk about timing :laughing7:

I know it's been a while, but I've been keeping busy while waiting for more parts to arrive. Since I last posted here, I ordered 2 more coin hoppers and 2 more dime conversion kits. The dime kits finally arrived yesterday. Today I converted my quarters hopper back to the quarter pin wheel to up the feed rate, and converted another halves hopper to dimes. I now have individual dedicated hoppers for pennies, dimes, quarters, and halves. I also have a spare hopper that arrived set up for halves, and a spare dime wheel.

These coin hoppers are normally run really fast, at 24 VDC in the slot machines. I tested them all at 12 VDC and they still work great, albeit at a slower feed speed. An adjustable voltage DC power supply could be used to adjust the feed rate if desired.

This past week I finally found and bought several sections of coin tubes on eBay. These are used to tie the individual pieces together, ie coin hopper output to coin analyzer A input and coin analyzer A output to coin analyzer B coin input, ect. I cannot proceed any further until the coin tubes arrive.

I am so anxious to get one of these coin sorting systems completed. Not only do I want to take some pictures to post, but I have bags and boxes of pennies just waiting to be sorted.

Bob
 

incomenet

Jr. Member
May 16, 2010
39
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Northern Ohio
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Re: Coin sorters

What kind of hoppers have you been buying? I have found some that are the IGT upright hoppers but they only have nickle and quarter available. I have not been able to locate conversion for dime/penny. Did you find these on Flea-bay as well.

Also saw a deal on comparator's, but they are CC-16E. Do you know if these would work?

Would like to try to put one of these together myself, just trying to figure out what parts to try. ;D
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

incomenet said:
What kind of hoppers have you been buying? I have found some that are the IGT upright hoppers but they only have nickle and quarter available. I have not been able to locate conversion for dime/penny. Did you find these on Flea-bay as well.

Also saw a deal on comparator's, but they are CC-16E. Do you know if these would work?

Would like to try to put one of these together myself, just trying to figure out what parts to try. ;D
I bought the IGT upright hoppers. There is a seller on eBay that has IGT coin knives, pin wheels, and shelf wheels. If you buy the nickel IGT hopper, you'll only need to change out the nickel shelf wheel for a dime shelf wheel, and you'll be able to re-use the same pin wheel and coin knife. Here's a link to his shelf wheel listing, just attach a PayPal note and specify that you want a dime wheel instead of the default quarter wheel. The dime wheel works fine for pennies.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150364340433

NOTE: This seller has updated his listing to indicate that he is out of the 10 cent hopper discs!

I am not affilliated in any way with the above mentioned eBay seller. He just happened to have the best prices for what I was looking for back when I was shopping for this hardware.

The CC-16E is mechanically similar to the CC-16D. I would consult the CMI database to find out the operational differences. It could be something as minor as an electrical interface connector or pinout change. I do know the CC-16D units I have has a different connector than the CC-16. There is a unique model number on the label of every CC-16 unit that identifies the customer order and can be used to download the correct spec sheet and schematic for that unit. Mine were made specifically for IGT. Be sure to buy the correct voltage units for what you need. I suggest you look for 12VDC or 13VDC units so they can be run from the same power source as the hopper.

Bob
 

Hortstu

Jr. Member
May 10, 2011
46
0
Re: Coin sorters

kb4iqm said:
incomenet said:
What kind of hoppers have you been buying? I have found some that are the IGT upright hoppers but they only have nickle and quarter available. I have not been able to locate conversion for dime/penny. Did you find these on Flea-bay as well.

Also saw a deal on comparator's, but they are CC-16E. Do you know if these would work?

Would like to try to put one of these together myself, just trying to figure out what parts to try. ;D
I bought the IGT upright hoppers. There is a seller on eBay that has IGT coin knives, pin wheels, and shelf wheels. If you buy the nickel IGT hopper, you'll only need to change out the nickel shelf wheel for a dime shelf wheel, and you'll be able to re-use the same pin wheel and coin knife. Here's a link to his shelf wheel listing, just attach a PayPal note and specify that you want a dime wheel instead of the default quarter wheel. The dime wheel works fine for pennies.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150364340433

I am not affilliated in any way with the above mentioned eBay seller. He just happened to have the best prices for what I was looking for back when I was shopping for this hardware.

The CC-16E is mechanically similar to the CC-16D. I would consult the CMI database to find out the operational differences. It could be something as minor as an electrical interface connector or pinout change. I do know the CC-16D units I have has a different connector than the CC-16. There is a unique model number on the label of every CC-16 unit that identifies the customer order and can be used to download the correct spec sheet and schematic for that unit. Mine were made specifically for IGT. Be sure to buy the correct voltage units for what you need. I suggest you look for 12VDC or 13VDC units so they can be run from the same power source as the hopper.

Bob

Bob,

I don't care if you are the seller! You're knowledgeable enough. So the link now goes to a 25cent hopper disc. The listing says 50c and 10c are also available. Is this the same thing as a "dime shelf wheel?" A "dime hopper disc?" when using this in conjunction with a igt upright hopper set up for nickels I just need to swap out the hopper disc and rig up chute to connect the hopper to the comparitor?

Thanks for being here and sorry for all the questions.
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

Hortstu said:
Bob,

I don't care if you are the seller! You're knowledgeable enough. So the link now goes to a 25cent hopper disc. The listing says 50c and 10c are also available. Is this the same thing as a "dime shelf wheel?" A "dime hopper disc?" when using this in conjunction with a igt upright hopper set up for nickels I just need to swap out the hopper disc and rig up chute to connect the hopper to the comparitor?

Thanks for being here and sorry for all the questions.
The "hopper wheel" he sells is really called a shelf wheel, and it is the only thing different between a nickel hopper and a dime hopper. Just buy the quarter wheel and send him a message that you want to select the dime wheel. I've bought 3 of them from him so far, one for my dimes hopper, one for my pennies hopper, and one for a spare. The rest is just adjustment of the coin knife once you re-install it after changing out the shelf wheel. Quite possibly having to shave a little off of the back of the coin knife to prevent it from hitting the pins on the pin wheel when it is adjusted properly for dimes/pennies. The coin knife is plastic, a few taps on a belt sander or rubbing it against concrete will shave enough off. You'll be able to tell if the pins hit it, it'll make a tapping sound as it runs and the coin knife will be seen to move a little.

The first hopper I bought was for quarters, paid $20 for that one. Then I found halves hoppers for $16 each on feebay. I ended up buying 4 of those halves hoppers, then bought some nickel pin wheels, dime shelf wheels, and small coin knives from the same feebay seller listed above. In order to convert a halves hoppers to dimes or pennies, you have to change out the pin wheel, shelf wheel, and coin knife. I now have a hopper each for pennies, dimes, quarters, and halves. I have a spare halves hopper in case any of the others breaks or needs parts.

I'm looking for an off-the-shelf bracket from Home Depot or Lowes that can be screwed down under the two coin knife guide screws to firmly attach an output coin chute to. I bought some aluminum coin chutes (tubes) from a seller on feebay, but he has no more, I bought all 7 that he had. I also bought a pack of "hot wheels" plastic track and verified that they can be modified into coin chutes by attaching one to a strip of flat plastic or metal, or by fitting two of them together facing each other. I had hoped to come across one of those home improvement stores in my travels yesterday but no dice. Will have to make an intentional trip to one today. This time I'm bringing the coin knife guide with me so I can match up the hole size/spacing.

I'll get pics once I get the right brackets attached. I have dialup internet at home, so I have to wait until I get to a broadband connection in order to upload pics.

Bob
 

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Hortstu

Jr. Member
May 10, 2011
46
0
Re: Coin sorters

Bob,

If the only difference is the shelf wheel why buy the nickel hopper? Why not just buy the dime hopper and be done with it? I know I'm missing something. Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks.
 

newtopos

Tenderfoot
Apr 20, 2011
5
0
Re: Coin sorters

Hoppers with dime wheels already installed are harder to find on eBay. That's why Bob is suggesting the route he has.
I'm interested in seeing pics of Bob's set-up (and he has given a lot of good advice on this thread). I'm still trying to configure a cheap coin chute that will stay in place.
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

Hortstu said:
Bob,

If the only difference is the shelf wheel why buy the nickel hopper? Why not just buy the dime hopper and be done with it? I know I'm missing something. Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks.
newtopos is quite correct. I already looked for dime hoppers and the ones I found were well over $100. I found quarter hoppers for $20 and halves hoppers for $16. I did see some nickel hoppers for about $50 or so. I chose to pay $16 for halves hoppers and spend about $25 for the dime conversion parts to convert to dimes/pennies.

Bob
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

This is the IGT upright hopper assembly. The first thing I did was remove all of the original wiring harnesses and the motor drive PCB. I left the output coin sensor in place in case I want to use it later.

To change out the shelf and/or pin wheels, you have to remove the plastic hopper from the mechanical assembly. There are 4 spring screws and a single long spring to remove before the hopper can be detached. These are the 2 shelf wheels for comparison, the half dollar wheel and the dime wheel.

The coin knife assembly is at the upper left. It consists of the black plastic coin knife and the metal coin knife guide plate that holds it in place. The two mounting screws that clamp the coin knife in place are where we attach our coin output chute mounting bracket. I will cover that in the next post.
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

The mounting bracket I use is a perfect fit, comprised of a 3" Everbilt #33 Mending Plate. These were bought from Home Depot and bear Everbilt part number 339 512 on the upper right corner of the package. There are 4 of these plates in a package.

I'll show here how the plate is fitted over the coin knife guide mounting screws. Be sure to hold the coin knife in alignment against the shelf wheel while tightening the mounting screws.

As coins are seperated from the shelf wheel by the coin knife, they roll along the top of the coin knife and are guided out the side by the coin knife guide plate.
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters

I cut a taper at one end of the coin chute/tube to help capture the coins coming out of the coin slot in the side of the hopper.

The coin tube can be attached to the mounting bracket a number of ways. Superglue, double-sided tape, hose clamps, zip-ties, ect.

Bob
 

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newtopos

Tenderfoot
Apr 20, 2011
5
0
Re: Coin sorters

kb4iqm said:
I cut a taper at one end of the coin chute/tube to help capture the coins coming out of the coin slot in the side of the hopper.

The coin tube can be attached to the mounting bracket a number of ways. Superglue, double-sided take, clamps, or zip-ties, ect.

Bob

Thanks very much, Bob, for posting this info! Excellent solution.
 

FreedomUIC

Bronze Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,974
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Re: Coin sorters - Pics Added 5/24/11

Not only do I have a headache after trying to understand the technical stuff, I think I want one..... :help:
 

Hortstu

Jr. Member
May 10, 2011
46
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Re: Coin sorters - Pics Added 5/24/11

Bob,
Looks great. Thanks for posting these. Looking forward to picture of the entire setup when it's running. How fast does it feed pennies?
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters - Pics Added 5/24/11

FreedomUIC said:
Not only do I have a headache after trying to understand the technical stuff, I think I want one..... :help:
One on these setups can be used to cut way down on the amount of work involved in searching quarters. So many states and territories quarters have been added to the blend in circulation that any advantage to thinning out the herd would be welcome.

Bob
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters - Pics Added 5/24/11

Hortstu said:
Bob,
Looks great. Thanks for posting these. Looking forward to picture of the entire setup when it's running. How fast does it feed pennies?
The feed rate is adjustable by using a variable DC power supply on the small DC motor that drives the hopper. I just checked the penny and dime hoppers. At 12.0 volts the feed speed is 3 to 4 coins per second, at 24.0 volts it's 7 to 8 coins per second. I tested with just 2 rolls of coins each. As the coins level in the hopper drops there are more missed coins, ie spots on the wheel where the coin falls back in the hopper before reaching the output. Coin pickup is more reliable at lower feed rates too, ie less fall out before making it to the output.

Bob
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters - More Pics Added 5/29/11

Small coin tube made from "Hot Wheels" plastic track sections. I trimmed off the main track sides over to the protrusions on the back side, then trimmed the ends off of those protrusions. I taped it together with clear packing tape so it can be seen through for photos. Duct tape is way more sturdy. If you need to curve it like I did, hold it together curved then tape it well, it will hold that shape pretty good.

I quickly taped it to the dime hopper output tube bracket to show how it mounts. The pics should show enough detail for it to be duplicated.

This tube accomodates coins from dimes to quarters. I used one just like this to feed over 10,000 dimes from the dime hopper into the coin input of a CC-16D last wednsday evening. It didn't jam at all. I'm still looking to mount this whole assembly into a case of some sort for a permanent setup.

Bob
 

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newtopos

Tenderfoot
Apr 20, 2011
5
0
Re: Coin sorters - More Pics Added 5/29/11

kb4iqm said:
Small coin tube made from "Hot Wheels" plastic track sections. I trimmed off the main track sides over to the protrusions on the back side, then trimmed the ends off of those protrusions. I taped it together with clear packing tape so it can be seen through for photos. Duct tape is way more sturdy. If you need to curve it like I did, hold it together curved then tape it well, it will hold that shape pretty good.

I quickly taped it to the dime hopper output tube bracket to show how it mounts. The pics should show enough detail for it to be duplicated.

This tube accomodates coins from dimes to quarters. I used one just like this to feed over 10,000 dimes from the dime hopper into the coin input of a CC-16D last wednsday evening. It didn't jam at all. I'm still looking to mount this whole assembly into a case of some sort for a permanent setup.

Bob

Thanks again, Bob. I just got back from the trip to Walmart to pick up some of these Hot Wheels tracks and when I returned to this page, I saw your new post. I would have tried using the main track side if you had not posted. Great, helpful posts -- can't wait to try this!
 

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kb4iqm

kb4iqm

Sr. Member
Mar 26, 2011
319
1
Southeastern Tennessee
Re: Coin sorters - More Pics Added 5/29/11

newtopos said:
Thanks again, Bob. I just got back from the trip to Walmart to pick up some of these Hot Wheels tracks and when I returned to this page, I saw your new post. I would have tried using the main track side if you had not posted. Great, helpful posts -- can't wait to try this!
Glad it helped. The first one I made from those tracks was using the track side. While it was fine for the smaller dollar coins and halves, and so-so for quarters, the output end was way too large to feed smaller coins into the relatively small coin analyzer inputs reliably. The result was commonly occurring mis-feeds and jams right at the analyzer input. Even those pre-made semi-flexible metal coin chutes that I bought turned out to be too large for dimes and pennies to feed reliable as-is. This small coin tube was the result of having to rethink a solution that worked reliably for small coins.

Bob
 

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