Detector bashing

[doctorbb]

Having been involved in another forum discussion of one machine over another (which must have been hashed over 1000's of times) I realized that many of the responders stated their opinion and then closed by saying, "but this is my first metal detector, or the only machine I've owned, or I've only been detecting for a few months" and they're talking about some $800-$1000 units. It also reminded me of how many discussions I've seen with questions about basic detector knowledge and hunting techniques from newbies trying to tame some very powerful beasts. It's hard for me to relate to this. It took me 37 years of detecting before I bought a top end detector. Cut my teeth as a kid on some technically challenged machine that didn't even discriminate, but it taught me how to hunt and how to listen. I guess it would be like someone that never sat in a car trying to drive a Ferrari and not being able to keep it on the road. I don't want to sound negative or anything but you got to walk before you run. And then there are those who's profile states that they've been detecting for a couple of years and their lsit of detectors is like 6 or 7 machines, some with dozens of detectors. It just seems wrong to think that every time a new and improved detector comes out that I've got to have it, that it will solve all the problems with the other unit, or the next purchase will be the best machine yet. Show some patience and learn what you've got, from the ground up, instead of throwing it in the closet and getting another. And those with the Ferrari, just keep it in 1st gear for a while, keep it between the ditches and gradually shift to 2nd and so on. I know it sounds like I'm on a soap box here but I've just read too much bashing of good machines and stories that sound like, "help, I've never been to the mall before but I know it's just down the road and there's lots of neat things there, and I've seen people in cars going there, so I bought a Porsche to drive myself there but I've never driven before and I can't get out of my driveway without wrecking." Remember, all metal detectors detect metal.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[BuckleBoy]

Excellent point! Ya know, I've never bought a machine that cost more than 450 bucks--and part of the reason is that I've found that the whole depth question and other "platforms" for detector bashing are usually not because of the machine itself--but the USER. If the user doesn't know what to listen for, it doesn't matter what machine they swing. 100% faith in an ID number or graph can only LOSE you depth! And folks who have never dug a signal that didn't "beep right" and get totally surprised by the result haven't used their machine enough! On the topic of the "latest fad," changing machines every few months doesn't give a person enough time to learn one worth a damn. I've had the same machine for 16 years, and recently bought an inexpensive crackerjack of a detector for a back-up due to my #1's age and wear. My main detector feels like an extension of my arm--I bought it new when I was 13 years old and have been swinging the same machine ever since. So thousands of silver and type coins, rings, CW, and Colonial relics later, I think I've done o.k.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Could not agree more. I've seen "reviews" that I am sure were performed without taking the detector outdoors.

Your Ferrarri analogy is a good one. I fly radio control airplanes and every year someone shows up at the field with a hot P-51 scale warbird that has either never flown before or just soloed on a high-wing trainer. More recently the influx is experts on a flight simulator who now have a "real" model. Sometimes you talk them out of it but usually the result is a smoking hole in the runway.

It takes practice and time to understand a machine. Some seem to be as much zen as technology.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I remember when the Spectrum and XLTs first came out, they had SO many user adjustements. Whenever a newbie came to a club meeting, he would invariably hear some ACE talking about how he'd adjusted such & such control, d/t "the factory pre-sets were supposedly lacking". Then later, I'd hear the newbie begging for help with his machine, d/t it "squeeked and squaked everywhere". I'd go out with him, take a look at his settings, and see that he had EVERY control set to the max! When I asked them "why'd you do THAT?", they'd have some answer like "because I didn't want to miss anything", and figured "the more, the better", or whatever. So yeah, the minute a newbie is told "start with the factory presets", they can't resist fooling around with all the advanced stuff, "lest they be missing out."

 

[BuckleBoy]

I remember when the Spectrum and XLTs first came out, they had SO many user adjustements. Whenever a newbie came to a club meeting, he would invariably hear some ACE talking about how he'd adjusted such & such control, d/t "the factory pre-sets were supposedly lacking". Then later, I'd hear the newbie begging for help with his machine, d/t it "squeeked and squaked everywhere". I'd go out with him, take a look at his settings, and see that he had EVERY control set to the max! When I asked them "why'd you do THAT?", they'd have some answer like "because I didn't want to miss anything", and figured "the more, the better", or whatever. So yeah, the minute a newbie is told "start with the factory presets", they can't resist fooling around with all the advanced stuff, "lest they be missing out."

This is a good point too! That sounds all too familiar to me. I've hunted with folks that have jacked up their digital machines to the point that they were too unstable to use. I'm analog all the way. It's how I roll.

 

[doctorbb]

I remember when the Spectrum and XLTs first came out, they had SO many user adjustements. Whenever a newbie came to a club meeting, he would invariably hear some ACE talking about how he'd adjusted such & such control, d/t "the factory pre-sets were supposedly lacking". Then later, I'd hear the newbie begging for help with his machine, d/t it "squeeked and squaked everywhere". I'd go out with him, take a look at his settings, and see that he had EVERY control set to the max! When I asked them "why'd you do THAT?", they'd have some answer like "because I didn't want to miss anything", and figured "the more, the better", or whatever. So yeah, the minute a newbie is told "start with the factory presets", they can't resist fooling around with all the advanced stuff, "lest they be missing out."

This is a good point too! That sounds all too familiar to me. I've hunted with folks that have jacked up their digital machines to the point that they were too unstable to use. I'm analog all the way. It's how I roll.

I agree too. I still find more stuff with my Classic or Discovery because I'm not worrying about tweaking everything like I sometimes find myself doing with the DFX. Even with all my experience I'll think what if I adjust this, or maybe a little more here when I know I've already set it up right to start with.

 

[gnewt]

I have an old Spectrum and always used the factory settings, I have tried other settings, not to hunt, but just checking, being nosey. I don't know if it is not as good as some others, and could care less. It works for me and I would say the same about any other if I bought and used, got use to it and it worked.
I have seen other people use cheaper machines and were happy with the way they worked, they do some lucky finds and know what to expect out of it. I cannot tell them mine is better, that's like two kids arguing, my dad can beat up your dad.
It boils down to luck and knowing your machine and lots of work. Gnewt

 

[doctorbb]

I have an old Spectrum and always used the factory settings, I have tried other settings, not to hunt, but just checking, being nosey. I don't know if it is not as good as some others, and could care less. It works for me and I would say the same about any other if I bought and used, got use to it and it worked.
I have seen other people use cheaper machines and were happy with the way they worked, they do some lucky finds and know what to expect out of it. I cannot tell them mine is better, that's like two kids arguing, my dad can beat up your dad.
It boils down to luck and knowing your machine and lots of work. Gnewt

Yes indeed. I used to belong to an archery club for years and years and saw the same thing with it. New fangled bows would come out, new arrow material, new fletchings and there would always be some yahoo who had all the best stuff, the latest compound bow, graphite arrows and such but would get out-shot by someone still using an old re-curve bow and wooden arrows with turkey feather fletchings because the yahoo just wasn't a good shot. Hell, Tiger Woods could play with a hockey stick and still beat me in golf, and I'm not too bad.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Sometimes the basics work pretty well.

 

[Digger]

I've also been swing a detector for 30 years, and cut my teeth on detectors with no discrimination, but I can appreciate a big jump in technology. I say this because I have personally witnessed what new technology can do. I'm not saying people should run out and buy the latest greatest detector, only that every so often detector technology makes a giant leap forward, and that can be very beneficial.

Remember when detector technology made the jump from TR's to VLF's? made the difference between finding targets at 3" and finding targets at 6". I think the last big advancement in detector technology was in the late 80's or early 90's. Anyway a lot of those older detectors can still hold up to the best ones today.

 

[doctorbb]

Sometimes the basics work pretty well.

A man after my own heart. Nice buck. My first bow was an old Ben Pearson Bronco, then years later got a Wing Presentation II. Thought I was in high cotton then.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Anyway a lot of those older detectors can still hold up to the best ones today.

True, but six 9v batteries a week gets to be a drag.

That's what amazes me. We're "transmitting" such tiny signals (or generating fields as you like it) that four AA batteries last 40 or 50 hours and the depth is as good or better than the old eight pound war horses.

Though there are times I'd rather see steel or aluminum instead of plastic you can't complain about three pound detectors.

My first detector (Archer kit) had a BARE printed circuit board for the coil. I could detect a quarter at over eight quarter thicknesses!

Thanky DoctorBB. A Wing was what I wanted when I got my green "Futurewood" Bear Kodiak Hunter (which I still have). A club compared to the Wings and Hoyts of the Golden era of recurves. That deer was at 11 yards while I was sitting on a downed tree trunk. Don't get any better than that. I had knee surgery in September and for the first time in maybe 20 years I sat in a tree-stand this fall and had an obliging button buck stop and give me a broadside that I thought I'd better take. I'm still using RibTec two-blades that look like the old Pearson skeleton ferrule heads.

 

[doctorbb]

Anyway a lot of those older detectors can still hold up to the best ones today.

True, but six 9v batteries a week gets to be a drag.

That's what amazes me. We're "transmitting" such tiny signals (or generating fields as you like it) that four AA batteries last 40 or 50 hours and the depth is as good or better than the old eight pound war horses.

Though there are times I'd rather see steel or aluminum instead of plastic you can't complain about three pound detectors.

My first detector (Archer kit) had a BARE printed circuit board for the coil. I could detect a quarter at over eight quarter thicknesses!

Thanky DoctorBB. A Wing was what I wanted when I got my green "Futurewood" Bear Kodiak Hunter (which I still have). A club compared to the Wings and Hoyts of the Golden era of recurves. That deer was at 11 yards while I was sitting on a downed tree trunk. Don't get any better than that. I had knee surgery in September and for the first time in maybe 20 years I sat in a tree-stand this fall and had an obliging button buck stop and give me a broadside that I thought I'd better take. I'm still using RibTec two-blades that look like the old Pearson skeleton ferrule heads.

Haven't heard some of those brands in years. Had an uncle who shot a Hoyt, another that used a Golden Eagle, dad had a Black Widow, a friend had a Jennings, lots of great bows. None of us did much bow hunting, not any deer close by, (we were all duck hunters). Used to shoot a lot of field tournaments though.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Used to shoot a lot of field tournaments though.

I used to post on the Leatherwall & other forums under "Stumpkiller"

Have that 80 yard shot down so my "cheater" point-of-aim is two man-heights (12 feet) over the target.

I'm dead on at 63 yards P.O.A.

I used to live for roving and field archery. I have 20 acres now with loads of 20 year old stumps, and Jake (my Kerry Blue Terrier) and I kill a lot of stumps together. Though it seems Port Orford cedar is keeping up with gold and gasoline as a precious commodity. Breaking three arrows a day now is a major calamity.

Whatever happened to the days of novelty shoots with styrofoam rabbits dragging on the ground and stryofoam ducks spinning on 20 ft wood "twirlies"? Compounds, pin sights and carbon shafts have killed all the fun.



Ooooooooooooooooops! What has this got to do with detector bashing? Ummmmm? Complication! That's it. I hate complicated detectors! The XXX, with 37 user variable adjustments. I don't KNOW 37 different things about detecting so how would I know I had them all set properly?

But say, I can tell you I've just added the old abanoned field archery site that is on state lands to my list of places to detect this year! ! ! ! ! !

Deer have to be within 25 yards, though.

 

[doctorbb]

Used to shoot a lot of field tournaments though.

I used to post on the Leatherwall & other forums under "Stumpkiller"

Have that 80 yard shot down so my "cheater" point-of-aim is two man-heights (12 feet) over the target.

I'm dead on at 63 yards P.O.A.

I used to live for roving and field archery. I have 20 acres now with loads of 20 year old stumps, and Jake (my Kerry Blue Terrier) and I kill a lot of stumps together. Though it seems Port Orford cedar is keeping up with gold and gasoline as a precious commodity. Breaking three arrows a day now is a major calamity.

Whatever happened to the days of novelty shoots with styrofoam rabbits dragging on the ground and stryofoam ducks spinning on 20 ft wood "twirlies"? Compounds, pin sights and carbon shafts have killed all the fun.



Ooooooooooooooooops! What has this got to do with detector bashing? Ummmmm? Complication! That's it. I hate complicated detectors! The XXX, with 37 user variable adjustments. I don't KNOW 37 different things about detecting so how would I know I had them all set properly?

But say, I can tell you I've just added the old abanoned field archery site that is on state lands to my list of places to detect this year! ! ! ! ! !

Deer have to be within 25 yards, though.

I was a popular kid at the archery club with my detector. When we would shoot an American round (40,50 & 60 yards) some of the guys, (myself included) would sometimes miss the whole target butt on the 60 yarders. Usually because a sight pin moved or a nock broke, plunger rest got stuck, something like that. No one was bad enough to just miss without a reason. We all used aluminum shafts so I always brought the Coinmaster with me to retrieve the misses that disappeard under the grass.

 

[gnewt]

My first bow was a long bow, I made my arrows with oxford cedar and fletched them with turkey feathers. I hunted from a tree for hyenas, Russian Boar, Ibex , Leopard
and wolves. Any of these animals come down out of the mountains with the exception of the Ibex you had to be ready.
My first Detector was heavy, I built it with vacuum tubes, power supply and it weighed about 35 pounds. The coil was 30" with 32 ga. copper 218 turns.
It detected a lot deeper than my factory job but it was no compact or portable.
Had meters and headphones. Sounded like a wood pecker.
I am not in the same league with any one now, you people have become so advanced, can you say cave man and I'll answer.LOL Gnewt

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Usually because a sight pin moved or a nock broke, plunger rest got stuck, something like that. No one was bad enough to just miss without a reason.

We called those shots " Brain Farts".

Now there's another tie to detectors. You never read a bash that says: "This detector is beyond my abilities to understand" or "I find this difficult to use with my level of experience".

Back to radio controlled airplanes. When a model crashes it is NEVER operator error among young (or not so young) pilots. "I was hit!" (meaning someone on the same frequency turned on their radio when they should not have).

And you know, the fastest and most maneuverable models are "unstable" to the extreme. I have one that will not survive any inattention, but boy is it hot! (In fact, the model is called a "Hot Stik"). I have another one that is WAY overpowered (43cc gas engine) with huge control surfaces and in level flight if you gave it full throttle it would literally tear itself to pieces. Detectors can be the same. You have to trim them out and manage the throttle instead of just giving it full throttle and "flying on the prop instead of the wing". Many do, but that is not the finesse needed for the best performance. And if the model tears itself to pieces (especially the Chinese ARFs (almost-ready-to-fly)) they say it was poorly built. Never mind the older pilots had warned them of the aileron flutter twice before it disintegrated in mid-air.

At least when a detector gets away from you there is a second chance. But there are similarities. A good pilot thinks ahead of the model and does not react to it. A good detectorist is looking through the dirt and has a mental idea of what is under the coil and where it should be swinging. The adjustments are optimized and not just maximized. You can do the "blind squirrel finding a nut" routine and bag some treasures, but the good hunters know where to hunt ahead of time.

 

[doctorbb]

Usually because a sight pin moved or a nock broke, plunger rest got stuck, something like that. No one was bad enough to just miss without a reason.

We called those shots " Brain Farts".

Now there's another tie to detectors. You never read a bash that says: "This detector is beyond my abilities to understand" or "I find this difficult to use with my level of experience".

Back to radio controlled airplanes. When a model crashes it is NEVER operator error among young (or not so young) pilots. "I was hit!" (meaning someone on the same frequency turned on their radio when they should not have).

And you know, the fastest and most maneuverable models are "unstable" to the extreme. I have one that will not survive any inattention, but boy is it hot! (In fact, the model is called a "Hot Stik"). I have another one that is WAY overpowered (43cc gas engine) with huge control surfaces and in level flight if you gave it full throttle it would literally tear itself to pieces. Detectors can be the same. You have to trim them out and manage the throttle instead of just giving it full throttle and "flying on the prop instead of the wing". Many do, but that is not the finesse needed for the best performance. And if the model tears itself to pieces (especially the Chinese ARFs (almost-ready-to-fly)) they say it was poorly built. Never mind the older pilots had warned them of the aileron flutter twice before it disintegrated in mid-air.

At least when a detector gets away from you there is a second chance. But there are similarities. A good pilot thinks ahead of the model and does not react to it. A good detectorist is looking through the dirt and has a mental idea of what is under the coil and where it should be swinging. The adjustments are optimized and not just maximized. You can do the "blind squirrel finding a nut" routine and bag some treasures, but the good hunters know where to hunt ahead of time.

Great story. I especially like the "almost ready to fly". I used to do a lot of bass fishing and sadly I've seen the same thing with those yahoos. 20' boat with a 200 HP motor that does 75 mph. I always wondered how you can catch a fish going 75 mph. My boat only did 35 mph and I still had to stop to cast.

 

[strike it rich]

chinese crappers some are juts that whilst others are

 

[relic lover]

amen I have been detecting 3 years and I am just comeing to terms with my ace 250 there is much to learn for a reformed bottle digger.