Did the FBI find $600M in Civil War Gold in Pa. Forest ?

[Kantuckkeean]

It only takes two people talking about comitting a crime to make a conspiracy. Like when Strozk was babbling with some strumpet using text messages- that constitutes a conspiracy. It does not matter if the crime is completed or not.

"Conspiracy"is a dirty word in the same way the word "rhetoric" is a dirty word, in that nobody seems to know the exact definitions. But everybody knows from context that the news media uses these words as pejoratives.

Just sayin'.

Isn't that exactly what's being suggested though?? That DCNR, the FBI, and others have conspired to steal and conceal gold that was found by FK? Or am I completely lost? I haven't read every post in every thread on this topic...

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

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[Kantuckkeean]

Which part of Occam's razor?
The 600 million figure?
Or the , We tried to convince the government there was government gold on a public land site until they dug a hole and claimed there was no gold , but we insist the government "stole" 600 million?

I mean to say that what most likely happened is that a hole was dug and there wasn't any gold. That hypothesis is much simpler than the hypothesis that involves that amount of gold being left on land for that amount of time, having been "forgotten" and not accidentally discovered, then to have a group of treasure hunters find it, but then a conspiracy by dozens of greedy, dishonest people to steal away and conceal the gold and in the end, all of the greedy, dishonest people were sufficiently satisfied with their cut of the goods that they all kept their mouths shut.

Like I said though, I don't know the whole backstory... the more complicated explanation may be much more complicated than the simplified version that I wrote in this post...

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Duckshot]

Isn't that exactly what's being suggested though?? That DCNR, the FBI, and others have conspired to steal and conceal gold that was found by FK? Or am I completely lost? I haven't read every post in every thread on this topic...

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

You seem to be talking about the FBI as a monolithic entity. They are as compartmentalized as any federal entity that might hold sensitive information. It does not matter if there were 1,000 FBI agents a crime scene , it does not matter if fifty took part in accomplishing a crime, only two would need be conscious of what is going on to commit a criminal conspiracy.

How many N.A.Z.I.s were aware of the systematic extermination of Jews (and other groups deemed undesirable) in the early 1940's? We don't know for sure. But not all the Germans were in on it. Remember the Nerumberg trials?

--"I was just following orders...."--

And no, I am not saying a crime was or was not committed at Dent's Run.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

I never meant to suggest that the FBI was a "monolithic entity" and I haven't suggested that 2, 70, or any number of agents in between from any departments committed any conspiracy or crime. I actually was suggesting otherwise.

I think now that I may understand what you were trying to get at... that it doesn't matter if it's 70 agents or 1,000... Only 2 are needed for there to be a criminal conspiracy. I was never arguing that, I was simply stating that in any situation that you're trying to keep quiet, if there are even just a few conspirators, it would be better for the conspirators to have the fewest sets of eyes on what's going down, as opposed to having more.

Are you or someone else suggesting that there were only two (or a few) corrupt FBI employees conspiring to make off with all of gold and that the dozens of other agents, DCNR staff, and others simply turned a blind eye or were "following orders" to implement the plot? While I guess that that is one possibility, I find it highly unlikely, because at that point, all of the others involved in the "theft" and "cover-up" could face potential repercussions without any of the spoils.

Doesn't matter to me either way. Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm content to sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the show. FK said that more information should be forthcoming. Hopefully it's a bunch of photos of bars of gold!!


Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Duckshot]

I don't know about someone else but I'm not suggesting anything, Kantukeean. I am straight up telling you that it would only take a few "bad apples" to pull off what is being claimed by FK. And as far as the others participating unaware of the details they all signed non-disclosure-agreements before they were hired for any comparamentalized position. - it's not that they have nothing to gain. It's that they would lose their pensions and all other benefits of their employment.

Think of it this way- suppose you are a military commanding officer of some sort. How many lies would you need to tell in order to persuade your underlings to commit a nefarious act? The correct answer is one. Take the U.S. Military for instance. Every Private and rank above swore a certain oath to follow the orders of those above them. The only asterisk at the end of that oath is *"...according to the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice."

It only takes one lie to make an unjust act have the appearance of being just. Afterall, the underlings are "just following orders". It isn't the underling's job to ask questions. That is simply not their department.

You are entitled to your opinion Kantukeean and I'm not accusing you of anything. But I just about choked and spit out my popcorn as I read some of the unthinking and closed minded statements here.

----- "I support the military and government agencies unequivocally"- that's what all the Germans said before they tossed a can of nerve gas into the Jew's showers or stuffed another fellow citizen into the ovens.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

Can you give some examples of "... unthinking and closed minded statements..."?

While military personnel, FBI agents, and others have taken oaths and are required to follow orders, that does not apply to unlawful orders. You can't slaughter a bunch of civilians and then just say, "I was just following orders." Since you brought up the Nuremberg trials, take that as an example... basically everyone involved with the atrocities could (and should) be charged, from the bottom to the top. The lowly foot soldiers couldn't just claim that they were following orders and doing their job. While that example is for Germany, the same would be true of US military.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[FinderKeeper]

A number for a warrant? Upon who was this warrant served? What was the warrant for?

Edit: I see it's a "seizure warrant". What was being seized through a warrant?

I wish I could answer your question and I would after we find and look at it. The FBI got the warrant in Philadelphia and gave it to DCNR head law office in Harrisburg . Not sure if its writ or warrant or criminal investigation . Hay DCNR called it many names and maybe there was more than one paper delivered to DCNR. The warrant gave the FBI the OK to go on the land and dig for more than 1 ton of gold. When someone returns the warrant to court they should fill out what they found . This info should answer many questions.

 

[FinderKeeper]

The amount of gold goes up when the price of gold goes up. Ya the Treasure Magazine from 1975 said $2 million , in 2007 we said $6 million ( 2 1/2 tons ) then in 2018 the FBI said 9 tons at $475 million but the price has gone up since then. BUT thats scrap price , and now the scrap price is around $600 million but if there is gold bars, coins, etc the collectors price can go way up. If someone found a bar of gold in the woods its worth the scrap price , but if the same gold bar was found in the Titanic Ship site it would go up in collectors price. So Ya the price changes from time to time.

We never said there was a crain truck at the Dents Run site, It was seen at Sheetz in Falls Creek with other military trucks. as I said 4 Armored Trucks, 4 Army Hummers , and 1 crain truck on site at Sheetz for 8 hrs. 2 Hummers and 2 Armored trucks left for Dents Run at 8 am , then at 5 pm the 2nd convoy left for Dents Run. I do not know if the crain stayed at Sheetz or left with the 1st convoy when they returned from Dents Run.

Pictures , We have many pictures and video of the dig site . The FBI said they removed all of my trail cams when they set up on the first day. We been to the site with the FBI 2 times before the dig happened and they saw 3 trail cams and shut them down each time BUT when Enviroscan said there was 9 tons of gold there the FBI ask us to put up more trail cams and can we go check out the site every day until they get the warrant to dig. So I put up a lot more trail cams and since they did not let me on site I did not know what they took down. The trail cams were hidden all over the site.

 

[Duckshot]

Can you give some examples of "... unthinking and closed minded statements..."?

While military personnel, FBI agents, and others have taken oaths and are required to follow orders, that does not apply to unlawful orders. You can't slaughter a bunch of civilians and then just say, "I was just following orders." Since you brought up the Nuremberg trials, take that as an example... basically everyone involved with the atrocities could (and should) be charged, from the bottom to the top. The lowly foot soldiers couldn't just claim that they were following orders and doing their job. While that example is for Germany, the same would be true of US military.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

I provided an example in my last post already-

----- "I support the military and government agencies unequivocally"--.

if you need me to name names then you really have NOT read every post, just as you claimed earlier. I'm not convinced you read the last post of mine or even that you will read this one. If you are trying to confuse me by repeating what I said, then you have done so successfully.

 

[Duckshot]

Kantukeean-

The fact is that not only the lowly foot solders but also N.A.Z.I. officers used the exact phrase, "I was just following orders", as their defense during the Nuremberg trials.

It could happen again too here in the not so United States...

...so don't say you did not see it coming if it does.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

I provided an example in my last post already-



if you need me to name names then you really have NOT read every post, just as you claimed earlier. I'm not convinced you read the last post of mine or even that you will read this one. If you are trying to confuse me by repeating what I said, then you have done so successfully.

I'd say that I'm the one who is confused.

I read all of your posts and all of the ones on THIS thread about Dent's Run. I haven't read all of the other threads and posts on Dent's Run. I was asking for examples of "unthinking and closed minded statements" because it seemed that you were specifically referring to my posts and I wanted to see what I had said to make you choke on your popcorn. I even went back and tried to find where someone said, "I support the military and government agencies unequivocally." I didn't see it anywhere other than in your post. I know that I didn't say that.

"I was just following orders" isn't a valid defense, just as claiming ignorance of the law isn't a valid defense.

In post #85, you seem to suggest that a couple of bad actors could have pulled off a big gold heist with the assistance of a large group of unwitting accomplices, and that the interests of the large group of unwitting accomplices would be to protect their jobs, pensions, and such and that their excuse would be that they were just following the orders of their superiors. Again, I find that scenario highly improbable and it becomes more improbable as the size of the group of unwitting accomplices and number of agencies/entities involved increases.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Armstrong]

In an unrelated case some guy was recently pulled over by cops with 1 million in cash in his car. An illegal dealer, but the fbi came in to try to confiscate the money. The point is they take what they want and there is no questioning them.

 

[Duckshot]

To be clear, I fully support the FBI and all law enforcement, as I do our military.

Kantukeean, what does the above quote from this thread mean to you?

Does that NOT equate to "supporting the military and government agencies unequivocally", as I stated in my example- TWICE!??

Sheesh! I was trying to keep from embarrassing anyone.

 

[Duckshot]

Let me repeat myself for you Kantukeean-

I don't know about someone else but I'm not suggesting anything, Kantukeean. I am straight up telling you that it would only take a few "bad apples" to pull off what is being claimed by FK. And as far as the others participating unaware of the details they all signed non-disclosure-agreements before they were hired for any comparamentalized position. - it's not that they have nothing to gain. It's that they would lose their pensions and all other benefits of their employment.

Think of it this way- suppose you are a military commanding officer of some sort. How many lies would you need to tell in order to persuade your underlings to commit a nefarious act? The correct answer is one. Take the U.S. Military for instance. Every Private and rank above swore a certain oath to follow the orders of those above them. The only asterisk at the end of that oath is *"...according to the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice."

It only takes one lie to make an unjust act have the appearance of being just. Afterall, the underlings are "just following orders". It isn't the underling's job to ask questions. That is simply not their department.

You are entitled to your opinion Kantukeean and I'm not accusing you of anything. But I just about choked and spit out my popcorn as I read some of the unthinking and closed minded statements here.

----- "I support the military and government agencies unequivocally"- that's what all the Germans said before they tossed a can of nerve gas into the Jew's showers or stuffed another fellow citizen into the ovens.

Now do you understand?

 

[SeabeeRon]

I agree!

To be clear, I fully support the FBI and all law enforcement, as I do our military.

As you said, there are always going to be some "bad apples"!

Kantukeean, what does the above quote from this thread mean to you?

Does that NOT equate to "supporting the military and government agencies unequivocally", as I stated in my example- TWICE!??

Sheesh! I was trying to keep from embarrassing anyone.

I made that post and I never used the word “unequivocally”.

 

[Duckshot]

Bless your heart SeabeeRon.

 

[Kantuckkeean]

I understand now. You misquoted someone and as a result, I became confused.

I don't think that SeabeeRon has said anything to be embarrassed about though. Please stop eating popcorn before you read and comprehend this: I fully support the FBI and all law enforcement, as I do our military. That's a fair statement. I fall into that camp as well. That DOES NOT mean that I (and likely SeabeeRon) support them WITHOUT EXCEPTION though... corrupt law enforcement and military personnel do not qualify for my support as they are simply criminals. I thought that SeabeeRon made that sentiment clear through his "bad apples" comment immediately after his endorsement of our military and law enforcement personnel.

Now, can we just get back to Dent's Run and finding the 2.5 or 9 tons of gold!

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

 

[Duckshot]

Fair enough.

But like I said it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole barrel.

"compartmentalized organization"- that means that nobody in the organization knows everything, but information is scattered within so that the organization as a whole does know everything. This is how sensitive information is kept secreted by entities such as the military.

A fish rots from the head down. The tail of the fish cannot even comprehend rot, yet it can still rot.

- And the apples at the bottom of that barrel don't know that the apples at the top rotted.

I'm sorry if I can't make it clearer for you. It would take a couple volumes of books.

 

[GoDeep]

I wish I could answer your question and I would after we find and look at it. The FBI got the warrant in Philadelphia and gave it to DCNR head law office in Harrisburg . Not sure if its writ or warrant or criminal investigation . Hay DCNR called it many names and maybe there was more than one paper delivered to DCNR. The warrant gave the FBI the OK to go on the land and dig for more than 1 ton of gold. When someone returns the warrant to court they should fill out what they found . This info should answer many questions.

Ok, so you are looking for the original warrant the FBI obtained to search the property in hopes that it can answer some questions. Fair enough. What if you come across information that indicates essentially, "no gold was found". Will you be satisfied with that answer?

Is it possible that the FBI's search was two fold? Meaning, unbeknownst to you, the FBI was also working some other case, for example, some missing person cold case or the like? Have you and your team considered that possibility and that their "secrecy" has nothing to do with Gold?

 

[FinderKeeper]

I don't know about someone else but I'm not suggesting anything, Kantukeean. I am straight up telling you that it would only take a few "bad apples" to pull off what is being claimed by FK. And as far as the others participating unaware of the details they all signed non-disclosure-agreements before they were hired for any comparamentalized position. - it's not that they have nothing to gain. It's that they would lose their pensions and all other benefits of their employment.

Think of it this way- suppose you are a military commanding officer of some sort. How many lies would you need to tell in order to persuade your underlings to commit a nefarious act? The correct answer is one. Take the U.S. Military for instance. Every Private and rank above swore a certain oath to follow the orders of those above them. The only asterisk at the end of that oath is *"...according to the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice."

It only takes one lie to make an unjust act have the appearance of being just. Afterall, the underlings are "just following orders". It isn't the underling's job to ask questions. That is simply not their department.

You are entitled to your opinion Kantukeean and I'm not accusing you of anything. But I just about choked and spit out my popcorn as I read some of the unthinking and closed minded statements here.

----- "I support the military and government agencies unequivocally"- that's what all the Germans said before they tossed a can of nerve gas into the Jew's showers or stuffed another fellow citizen into the ovens.

I agree with every thing you just posted. We had dinner with the FBI agents , drank beer and they were the best agents ever . The problem is the FBI told everyone this is a on going investigation so I am sure the 70 agents thought when the investigation ends we would get credit for our find. It was on day 2 after the night dig things changed. Some people in suits came to the site by chopper and thats when things changed. DCNR had nothing to do with the FBI dig , they had no idea what was going down. Who got what after the dig is what we want to know. If they melted it down so it could not be traced WRONG THING to do. They just destroyed part of our history and they only got scrap price and lost a big chunk of what it was worth. We want the truth to come out , or we will tell what we know .
Most of my crew is in law enforcement and my son Kem is a cop . One member has a brother that is a judge and his dad was a judge and 2 sisters are lawyers. This is why we only work by the law and try to do things right.