Does anyone remember this lost & found laws story ? :

Tom_in_CA

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It's been a few years since I read this on an md'ing forum, and .... since then .... I thought it was interesting enough to re-post the account. It's been a few years, so here it is again. I've long-since lost the original link, but the true story went something like this:

A young couple was walking through a parking lot, in a small NW state (OR? WA?) parking lot at a shopping center, on their way in to a grocery store. It was a small town, with a single shopping center if I recall. While walking, the lady glanced down and spotted something shiny: a lady's gold ring. It had an enormous diamond looking stone in it. So big that they naturally assumed it was Cubic zirconia. She put it in her purse. Later, when they got home, she took it out for closer examination. This time, with a magnifying glass and better light, they could see that it was marked gold on the inside of the band. Still though, the stone was so big, that they assumed it was probably costume jewelry.

Eventually, their curiosity got the better of them, and they decided to go to the local jeweler (a single jeweler in this small town) to see if a) is it real gold ? b) is that a real diamond? c) What's it worth ? The jeweler looked at it under his scope as best he could, and said: "Well, I'm not a gemologist. But the travelling gemologist makes his rounds to this part of the state, and passes by here a time or two per month. He's coming by in a few days. So if you want to leave it here, with your name and #, I'll have him take a look at it."

So the young couple did as the jeweler said, and left the ring with the small town jeweler. A few days later, the travelling gemologist came by on his rounds to that particular store. The jeweler brought out the ring, and said "a couple came by asking if this was real, what it's worth, etc...". So the gemologist started studying it under his equipment, but then .... all of the sudden something looked earily familar. He reached into his briefcase, looked through some papers, and pulled out a "B.O.L." issued by the FBI for a stolen ring. The alert had gone out to pawn shops, and any other of various places where someone might try to fence a stolen ring. And this fax had shown up on the gemologist fax machine, a few days earlier. As he held up the grainy photo of the ring, and compared it to the ring he had in his hand, it was a match !

So at the bottom of the fax, it instructed anyone who sees this ring, to call a certain FBI ph.#. So the 2 jewelers called the number. The FBI field office, which was several hours from this town, asked the men if they would please hold it, and they would immediately send some investigators. Within a few hours, FBI agents came into the store, and looked at the ring. Then looked at the BOL. Yup a match. So they turn to the store owner and ask: "Where did you get this?". The store owner finds the paper with the contact info, and hands it to the LEO's.

The FBI then decided that they would do a sting, and entice the people to come in. So they staged a phone call where they call and say: "Hello. This is the such & such jewelry store. The gemologist has looked at the ring. Do you want to come in and we'll tell you more please?". To which the couple ask "is it real? what's it worth?", etc... To which the jeweler just says "come in, and we'll tell you in person". Within 10 minutes, the couple comes through the doors. The FBI spring out from hiding and throw the cuffs on them !

Naturally the couple is very confused. Because they didn't "steal" it. They have no idea what is going on. When they are told that the ring is stolen, they insist that they only "found" it. To which, of course, you can be the LEO's are saying "Sure buddy. That's what they ALL say".

Part II to follow .......
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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Part II

Then when the couple is accused of also trying to fence/sell the stolen ring, they are equally as mystified. They tried to say "we weren't trying to sell it. We just wanted to know if it was real or not". To which the cops rightfully pointed out, that one of the questions they had asked was, "what's it worth?" Which was a clear indication of their "intent" to sell, eh ?

Eventually, the pieces of the puzzle began to get pieced together by all parties involved: The actual owner of the ring was a lady, travelling across the entire state, in her car. At the end of one of the days of travel, she'd looked down, and discovered her ring with the 2+ carat diamond missing ! She couldn't remember when she'd last had it on her finger, and didn't know exactly when it had gone missing. So immediately her mind had raced about various scenarios of what might have happened. Eg.: the maid in last night's hotel stay might have swiped it off the night-stand. Or if she'd left it on the sink in the bathroom while washing her hands. Or if someone "palmed" it when shaking her hand during her business travels. She simply didn't know.

So when she went to report it missing to her insurance company, they naturally required a police report, before they would pay out on such a large insurance claim. So upon going to the police, I guess it ended up on the FBI's domain, d/t the value exceeding a certain amount, or due to that it wasn't clear what city it had gone missing in, or some such reason. And in making the report, since the lady didn't really know what had happened (other than assuming stolen) , it apparently just gets put down as "lost/stolen".

The owner had, in fact, pulled over off the freeway, & stopped briefly in that town to buy something at the store. One of many stops that day in a long day's travel. So evidentally it had fallen off her finger in the parking lot.

Eventually I guess the police believe the young couple's story. But their legal woes were far from over. Because they had been in violation of lost & found laws, for having failed to turn it in to the police, and had given overatures of planning to hawk it.


Anyone remember this story ? What was the end result of the anything legal sticking to the finders? And do y'all see any similarities between this, and rings we md'rs routinely find ? A quick look at ANY beach hunting md'ing forum, and you will ALWAYS see md'rs proudly posting and bragging of their latest ring finds. eh ? :)
 

SeabeeRon

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Just another reason to NOT post pictures of those really nice ring finds!! 8-)
 

Slingshot

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C.V.M. - Tell NO one!!! The guys who brag about their finds in the mags and online are in danger of having their teeth kicked in, a few bones broken, family pets shot, children and spouse terrorized, being tasered and maced, and shackled in irons by an assault force of LEOs who break down the door at 3:30 AM and will do their utmost to see the miscreants locked up safely behind bars for several decades, if they manage to survive the arrest. Of course if they do survive, all their assets, home, automobiles, bank account, etc, will also be confiscated by the legal authorities because of their ties to organized crime which is SO obvious in the fact that they are in possession of stolen jewelry. Of course the IRS will take their pound of flesh also, and our destitute TH'er will rot behind bars while being exposed to all the physical challenges of prison life, their spouse will of course have to find someone new, and their children will grow up poor, and treated as red headed stepchildren are, who have a criminal parent in jail.
Sport hunters love to show and tell about their nice finds, while pros, the meat hunters keep their lips zipped, and only admit to a few grubby coins and a whole lot of trash.
I'm not trying to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, but it's just the way the world works, so think before you leap, which I know is tough to do in this electronic connected era of everybody seeing what everyone else is doing.

I tend to gravitate towards being a poacher myself, and am going to busy myself examining the 3 cents I found at the park today. I think one of them might actually be solid copper! Cheers!!
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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SeabeeRon, for a mere $100 bribe, I can be persuaded to "keep quiet" about those rings you've found on the beach . I accept paypal. Extortion at its finest, eh ? haha
 

cudamark

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I remember hearing that story before Tom. It's interesting. Certainly not the norm. I would it imagine it happens at about the same frequency as getting a ticket for detecting in an open park! :laughing7:
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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Interesting story, so I had to look it up. Don't know if it is the same one, but this one the finder is trying to sue the ring owner after being arrested.

Finder of lost wedding ring gets arrested, sues owner : News

This is a good lesson for a newbie like myself to read

jjalbers, I loved that link !! thankyou! No, that was not the story I was paraphrasing. But it TOO brings out interesting twists to potentials with our hobby. I mean, sure: We're not likely to find $20,000 diamond rings, are we ? But heck, if you read closely, every-single-one-of-those factors would also apply for an item of $10 or more (technically speaking). Note the following quote:

"Missouri statutes require the finder of any money, good or personal property valued at more than $10 to report it to a judge within 10 days, but the law is not commonly known or practiced."

In CA, that's $100 or more. But as you can see, such dollar value criteria of either amount, are antiquated values from way-back-when (1800s?) values such as "$10" really meant something . Ie.: a weeks wages or whatever at one time. Technically, the laws are still on the books.

Next, I love this quote:

"Chase [the finder's lawyer] said Land’s problems could have been avoided if Boucek [the person who lost the ring] had not reported the lost ring as stolen."

But wait! The "devil is in the details": if someone finds it, and fails to turn it in, then BY MERE DEFINITION, they have "stolen" it. So do you see how the definitions get skewed ? Also: notice in that case the person who lost the ring was fairly certain they'd left it in the tanning booth. But go-figure: there are many other cases where a person isn't sure WHERE it went missing (ie.: purposefully taken off and set down, versus perhaps just "slipped off" on its own, etc....). So when those cases get to LEO's, it's sometimes given a catch-all of lost/stolen (since it's not know either way).

Great link jjalbers!
 

Slingshot

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A working relationship with a dental lab technician and a gemologist could solve a lot of problems. Hint, hint! Cheers!!
 

coinshooter

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Hi Tom,
I did research on this a while ago and noticed CA law states something to the effect that even though a person leaves
a ring lost on the beach, technically it is still not abandoned. So if they come back later and the value is over $100 you are liable to get arrested. If you turn it in and nobody claims it within (I believe 90 days), then you can claim it as yours.
I met a guy on the beach the other night who told me he melts everything he finds into a lump and sends the lump to a refiner, just to avoid being arrested.
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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Coinshooter, I have heard of persons who .... in their quest to "obey all laws" (as the md'rs code-of-ethics says), will actually turn in their items (that exceed the threshold value) to the police station. Their logic is that they'll most likely get it back, and that in the meantime, they'd "kept the code".

This may work for certain police depts. But I sometimes wonder if there could be times when they tell you that someone claimed it, when in fact no one did. Because they are under no obligation to tell you who they gave it to (privacy laws).

So what's to stop that desk from picking up the phone on the 29 or 89th day and telling their cousin: "Hey cousin Joe, you want a nice Rolex? Come into the station and describe a such & such watch" Now I know that sounds dastardly, but .... may not as bad as it sounds. Because what have YOU lost ?? NOTHING. It was never yours to begin with. So how have you been harmed ? You only found it. You turned it in knowing full well someone might claim it. And you would have no way of knowing whether it was truly repatriated or not. :(
 

Sandman

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Great post Tom.. Everyone likes to be recognized for what they find while detecting, just as hunters get their photo taken with a deer. Some need the pat on the head. Stuff like this happens more often than we realize, maybe not with as much value as the story. Someone claim the ring you found was theirs. Much better they don't know anything abut it.

I don't find nothing......:laughing7:
 

yodi

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If it was me I would turn it in LOL I cant even type that with a strate face
 

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