Examples of Superstition Mountain gold

[Hal Croves]

More than coincidental. An old saying in hardrock mining is that Iron is the Mother of Gold. Where you find black sand, you can USUALLY find gold. Black sand is a lot of iron and hematite. If you look at many gold/quartz veins, you will also find dark red stained rocks. That red stain is from the iron oxidizing when exposed to the atmosphere, then leaching out onto the rock.

While black sand is USUALLY a very good indicator of gold, the old fashioned way to find an outcrop vein is to start at a bend or large boulder in a creek. This is where the water slows down, and the gold being carried by the currents drop to the bottom. If you pan where the water slows down, and you find even a small bit of gold, that means it came from somewhere upstream. A prospector's job is to find out where upstream that gold came from. How you do that is to start as before. Keep moving upstream about 100 yards at a time. Every 100 yards or so, sample the bottom of the creekbed and pan it. As long as you keep getting gold (even a tiny bit), keep moving upstream. When you get to the point where you stop getting gold in your pan, go back about 50 yards and sample pan again. No gold? Move another 25 yards or so downstream. Keep going back the way you came, until you start getting gold again. From here, start moving up the side of the creek/arroyo. Up one side or the other is the vein you have been chasing from the slow water (unless the gold you found was all that is left from a pocket that weathered away HAHAHA).

Here is a chunk of almost pure Iron Ore and magnetite from an old Spanish Iron Mine in the Supers (the one from Ryan's Video):

View attachment 1245755

Hope that helps - Mike

Very helpful Mike.
Thanks.

 

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[azdave35]

More than coincidental. An old saying in hardrock mining is that Iron is the Mother of Gold. Where you find black sand, you can USUALLY find gold. Black sand is a lot of iron and hematite. If you look at many gold/quartz veins, you will also find dark red stained rocks. That red stain is from the iron oxidizing when exposed to the atmosphere, then leaching out onto the rock.

While black sand is USUALLY a very good indicator of gold, the old fashioned way to find an outcrop vein is to start at a bend or large boulder in a creek. This is where the water slows down, and the gold being carried by the currents drop to the bottom. If you pan where the water slows down, and you find even a small bit of gold, that means it came from somewhere upstream. A prospector's job is to find out where upstream that gold came from. How you do that is to start as before. Keep moving upstream about 100 yards at a time. Every 100 yards or so, sample the bottom of the creekbed and pan it. As long as you keep getting gold (even a tiny bit), keep moving upstream. When you get to the point where you stop getting gold in your pan, go back about 50 yards and sample pan again. No gold? Move another 25 yards or so downstream. Keep going back the way you came, until you start getting gold again. From here, start moving up the side of the creek/arroyo. Up one side or the other is the vein you have been chasing from the slow water (unless the gold you found was all that is left from a pocket that weathered away HAHAHA).

Here is a chunk of almost pure Iron Ore and magnetite from an old Spanish Iron Mine in the Supers (the one from Ryan's Video):

View attachment 1245755

Hope that helps - Mike

mike..if that really worked there wouldnt be any gold bearing veins left to find....it's a bit more difficult to trace placer gold back to the source..especially in arizona...contrary to popular belief the gold you find in a stream or wash doesn't come from one big vein on the mountainside...it usually comes from dozens or hundreds of little stringer veins or small pockets that are all over the hillside...on my claim alone there are hundreds of quartz stringer veins on the hillsides...some carry gold and some dont...trying to trace gold back to the source would drive you nuts because just about anywhere on the hillside you can pan color...in other states such as california and colorado you would have better luck tracing gold the way you describe but not in arizona..especially central arizona...and it really gets confusing because in the superstition area alot of the placer gold comes from ancient rivers or streams

 

[Hal Croves]

It's also possible that the source gold came down by different paths. The old timers used to gauge the amount of gold in their pan and using a pyramid pattern work their way up the side of the mountain, slowly testing across their pyramid as the tip becomes smaller. Eventually, you should reach the source. No shortcuts!

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

So, it all leads to an outcropping.
The exposed surface of gold is continually eroding and with the aid of water/gravity, traveling lower and further away from its source.
Seem that a location high up and heavily broken (eroded) is the place to search.

 

[gollum]

Dave,

But the basic premise remains that if you start prospecting at a bend or boulder, and work your way upstream, as long as you have color, you keep going upstream until you stop getting gold in the pan. It may come from one large outcropping, or a million small stringers, physics dictates that from all those veins, the gold will ALWAYS travel DOWNSTREAM. I can't imagine finding gold UPSTREAM from a vein (or veins), unless it is from another vein (or set of veins) further upstream. The gold in the stream could have come from a big vein, a million small stringers, or a weathered out pocket. The basic premise of how to prospect doesn't change (unless you have access to government satellite photos in Infra Red or Ultra Violet and USGS Mineral Maps).

I was just giving Hal a basic overview of how to prospect. There are a million variations and possibilities. With a bunch of small stringer veins, I like to break out a metal detector if I find color in the creekbed and can't visually find what I am looking for on the hillside. When I am out exploring, I carry a few things always:

1. Horn Spoon: very small and easy to spot pan. Just scoop up some soil from the bedrock, shake it around in the spoon, and gently blow off the soil leaving only the gold behind (if there is any)

2. Small Pan: If I find something with the Horn Spoon, I like to sample a larger amount of soil.

3. Metal Detector/Gold Machine: Obvious use.

4. GPS: If I find a patch that I think needs for me to bring in my heavy Minelab SD Gold Machine, I GPS mark the position.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

But the basic premise remains that if you start prospecting at a bend or boulder, and work your way upstream, as long as you have color, you keep going upstream until you stop getting gold in the pan. It may come from one large outcropping, or a million small stringers, physics dictates that from all those veins, the gold will ALWAYS travel DOWNSTREAM. I can't imagine finding gold UPSTREAM from a vein (or veins), unless it is from another vein (or set of veins) further upstream. The gold in the stream could have come from a big vein, a million small stringers, or a weathered out pocket. The basic premise of how to prospect doesn't change (unless you have access to government satellite photos in Infra Red or Ultra Violet and USGS Mineral Maps).

I was just giving Hal a basic overview of how to prospect. There are a million variations and possibilities. With a bunch of small stringer veins, I like to break out a metal detector if I find color in the creekbed and can't visually find what I am looking for on the hillside. When I am out exploring, I carry a few things always:

1. Horn Spoon: very small and easy to spot pan. Just scoop up some soil from the bedrock, shake it around in the spoon, and gently blow off the soil leaving only the gold behind (if there is any)

2. Small Pan: If I find something with the Horn Spoon, I like to sample a larger amount of soil.

3. Metal Detector/Gold Machine: Obvious use.

4. GPS: If I find a patch that I think needs for me to bring in my heavy Minelab SD Gold Machine, I GPS mark the position.

Mike

mike...i see you have a modded sd2000...what do you think of the detector?...did ismael do the mods?

 

[Oroblanco]

So, it all leads to an outcropping.
The exposed surface of gold is continually eroding and with the aid of water/gravity, traveling lower and further away from its source.
Seem that a location high up and heavily broken (eroded) is the place to search.

Not to try to "one up" the several excellent posts covering the black sand thing, nothing to dispute - however just in case anyone is curious, black sand is CREATED by the decomposition of iron pyrites! Yep fools gold! In fact if you crush up a piece of pyrite, it becomes tiny black grains. Not ALL black sand comes from iron pyrites, but a good deal does; other heavy black sand minerals include wolframite <an ore of tungsten and well worth saving>, stream tin, even rare earths occur as black sands. So save your black sands (always) and of course separate the magnetic stuff as that is used to make the finest quality steel, and can be sold. Many occurrences of black sands often also contain red colored, heavy sands that on examination with a magnifier, look like tiny red gemstones, and are called "ruby sands" up north. This red sand is actually tiny garnets! Anyway as the Spanish used to say, "iron is the mother of gold" so finding black sands and even finding iron pyrites, is NOT a bad thing! Heck sometimes microscopic gold occurs INSIDE of pyrite, so don't trust the Hollywood movies about 'fools gold'!

The other thing I would point out that is not really in disagreement but a gold placer does not always lead to a vein or lode. Sometimes the original host rock has been completely destroyed by erosion etc over the millions of years, so it is not possible to trace the gold to a source lode, a great example of this is in the beaches at Nome Alaska, but there are a few instances like that in AZ too. Also, the source lode that is creating gold placer or has been creating it I should say, may not be a nice rich gold vein - it can and often IS a large number of tiny "veinlets" of gold in host rock, that is far too poor to try to mine it commercially Last point but not all gold lodes have an associated placer! Due to the circumstances of the local geography, some rock does not become exposed to weathering and thus does not create a placer to trace. This is not that uncommon in AZ, especially with deeply buried gold lodes but also holds true for copper, silver etc. A gold vein that is protected from weathering does not make any placer to trace.

Please do continue, sorry for drifting off topic there.

<NO Donkey drippings!>

Edit - neglected to mention that a good part of black sands ALSO is created by the decomposition of natural magnetite, not just pyrites.

 

[sgtfda]

mike..if that really worked there wouldnt be any gold bearing veins left to find....it's a bit more difficult to trace placer gold back to the source..especially in arizona...contrary to popular belief the gold you find in a stream or wash doesn't come from one big vein on the mountainside...it usually comes from dozens or hundreds of little stringer veins or small pockets that are all over the hillside...on my claim alone there are hundreds of quartz stringer veins on the hillsides...some carry gold and some dont...trying to trace gold back to the source would drive you nuts because just about anywhere on the hillside you can pan color...in other states such as california and colorado you would have better luck tracing gold the way you describe but not in arizona..especially central arizona...and it really gets confusing because in the superstition area alot of the placer gold comes from ancient rivers or streams

Your correct Dave. A few pieces of wire gold in the last batch

 

[sgtfda]

My friend Chris Ralph wrote a book. Fists full of Gold. It covers everything. I refer to it often.

 

[cactusjumper]

My friend Chris Ralph wrote a book. Fists full of Gold. It covers everything. I refer to it often.

Frank,

It's a good book. Mr. Ralph seem like a good man to have by your campfire.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

mike...i see you have a modded sd2000...what do you think of the detector?...did ismael do the mods?

Ismael is my friend. I have his personal mod 2000. Only one he made. Has everything he invented on it. That and a 25" handmade nugget finder coil. You can find some deep treasure with that unit

 

[Hal Croves]

Not to try to "one up" the several excellent posts covering the black sand thing, nothing to dispute - however just in case anyone is curious, black sand is CREATED by the decomposition of iron pyrites! Yep fools gold! In fact if you crush up a piece of pyrite, it becomes tiny black grains. Not ALL black sand comes from iron pyrites, but a good deal does; other heavy black sand minerals include wolframite <an ore of tungsten and well worth saving>, stream tin, even rare earths occur as black sands. So save your black sands (always) and of course separate the magnetic stuff as that is used to make the finest quality steel, and can be sold. Many occurrences of black sands often also contain red colored, heavy sands that on examination with a magnifier, look like tiny red gemstones, and are called "ruby sands" up north. This red sand is actually tiny garnets! Anyway as the Spanish used to say, "iron is the mother of gold" so finding black sands and even finding iron pyrites, is NOT a bad thing! Heck sometimes microscopic gold occurs INSIDE of pyrite, so don't trust the Hollywood movies about 'fools gold'!

The other thing I would point out that is not really in disagreement but a gold placer does not always lead to a vein or lode. Sometimes the original host rock has been completely destroyed by erosion etc over the millions of years, so it is not possible to trace the gold to a source lode, a great example of this is in the beaches at Nome Alaska, but there are a few instances like that in AZ too. Also, the source lode that is creating gold placer or has been creating it I should say, may not be a nice rich gold vein - it can and often IS a large number of tiny "veinlets" of gold in host rock, that is far too poor to try to mine it commercially Last point but not all gold lodes have an associated placer! Due to the circumstances of the local geography, some rock does not become exposed to weathering and thus does not create a placer to trace. This is not that uncommon in AZ, especially with deeply buried gold lodes but also holds true for copper, silver etc. A gold vein that is protected from weathering does not make any placer to trace.

Please do continue, sorry for drifting off topic there.

<NO Donkey drippings!>

It appears that occasionally gems stones (precious/non) are also found in this same black sand. Not sure if this includes the Superstitions or not.
Great post.

Thank you.

 

[sdcfia]

<cut>
The other thing I would point out that is not really in disagreement but a gold placer does not always lead to a vein or lode. Sometimes the original host rock has been completely destroyed by erosion etc over the millions of years, so it is not possible to trace the gold to a source lode, a great example of this is in the beaches at Nome Alaska, but there are a few instances like that in AZ too. Also, the source lode that is creating gold placer or has been creating it I should say, may not be a nice rich gold vein - it can and often IS a large number of tiny "veinlets" of gold in host rock, that is far too poor to try to mine it commercially Last point but not all gold lodes have an associated placer! Due to the circumstances of the local geography, some rock does not become exposed to weathering and thus does not create a placer to trace. This is not that uncommon in AZ, especially with deeply buried gold lodes but also holds true for copper, silver etc. A gold vein that is protected from weathering does not make any placer to trace.

Extremely important statement Oro - thanks. Very little recovered placer was ever traced back to a specific source: and most mined lode gold never produced recoverable placer. "Following placer/float" has occasionally led to an exposed lode, but rarely.

 

[markmar]

Also , the Peraltas were able to track the gold placers to some mother lode in the heart of the Superstitions . Is a region there which still has a rich gold placer that not many people ( maybe nobody except me ) are aware . This placer is depicted only in maps and the last man who saw it was Chas Clark and before him Dr Thorne .

 

[Azquester]

The sands on my property in Tucson are full of those "Sand Rubies" nice big examples too.

But no gold to speak of.

It appears that occasionally gems stones (precious/non) are also found in this same black sand. Not sure if this includes the Superstitions or not.
Great post.

Thank you.

 

[Azquester]

Don't forget:


"Frank Augustine"

Also , the Peraltas were able to track the gold placers to some mother lode in the heart of the Superstitions . Is a region there which still has a rich gold placer that not many people ( maybe nobody except me ) are aware . This placer is depicted only in maps and the last man who saw it was Chas Clark and before him Dr Thorne .

 

[Azquester]

Have any of you ever used one of Cyclone wet / dry panning kits from Keene?

I just ordered one it has a foot air pump for dry washing with classifier screens and vile attachments for the gold.

Nice compact unit!

 

[gollum]

mike...i see you have a modded sd2000...what do you think of the detector?...did ismael do the mods?

They're Ismael's mods. Nothing too difficult (GPM Mod). With a LOT of assistance from Ismael, I also built a custom 11.1v LiPo Battery Pack w/Volume Control and adjustable voltage. I am looking at different circuits to also include a Bluetooth 4.0 Connection (fast reaction low latency) for headsets first, then maybe to connect to phone GPS (I build my own PCBs). Also thinking about NFC Charging (Qi Charger Circuit), so I can waterproof it. Ismael told me that he has run his GPM modded SD2000's at 9v all day with no problems. I also have a factory stock SD2000 that I am currently restoring (and modding). I was originally going to paint it flat desert tan, then I decided on powder coating instead (for durability). My guess is that it performs close to what you would get with a GP Extreme. I only have a few coils for it, mainly because I don't use it for everything (a lot of weight to drag through the mountains). My favorite is the 18" Kevlar Mono Coil (Minelab). For exploring, I always take my Schiebel MIMID:



It fits (folded) in my cargo pocket. It was designed to find Minimum Metal Mines. For testing, it finds a .5 centimeter wire at 19 centimeters depth. It is also waterPROOF to 100 feet (30 meters), and it has a small coil which makes it good at very small stuff. I have been going through withdrawals for a while, because I loaned it to Carl Moreland at Fisher/First Texas to play with. I told him he should do a review of it for his website. How many of ANY manufacturers build their circuit boards this well:



Don't get me started with electronics. I can go all day.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

They're Ismael's mods. Nothing too difficult (GPM Mod). With a LOT of assistance from Ismael, I also built a custom 11.1v LiPo Battery Pack w/Volume Control and adjustable voltage. I am looking at different circuits to also include a Bluetooth 4.0 Connection (fast reaction low latency) for headsets first, then maybe to connect to phone GPS (I build my own PCBs). Also thinking about NFC Charging (Qi Charger Circuit), so I can waterproof it. Ismael told me that he has run his GPM modded SD2000's at 9v all day with no problems. I also have a factory stock SD2000 that I am currently restoring (and modding). I was originally going to paint it flat desert tan, then I decided on powder coating instead (for durability). My guess is that it performs close to what you would get with a GP Extreme. I only have a few coils for it, mainly because I don't use it for everything (a lot of weight to drag through the mountains). My favorite is the 18" Kevlar Mono Coil (Minelab). For exploring, I always take my Schiebel MIMID:

View attachment 1245995

It fits (folded) in my cargo pocket. It was designed to find Minimum Metal Mines. For testing, it finds a .5 centimeter wire at 19 centimeters depth. It is also waterPROOF to 100 feet (30 meters), and it has a small coil which makes it good at very small stuff. I have been going through withdrawals for a while, because I loaned it to Carl Moreland at Fisher/First Texas to play with. I told him he should do a review of it for his website. How many of ANY manufacturers build their circuit boards this well:

View attachment 1246004

Don't get me started with electronics. I can go all day.

Mike

mike..i have one of ismael's modded sd2000's also..i just havent had time to try it out...i have a lithium battery set up on it that i built too....those sd's will run on 9 volts.if i remember i'm running mine at 8.4

 

[markmar]

Bill

What about Frank Augustine ?

 

[Azquester]

Frank?

Well I'll tell ya he's just a legend at finding gold in the Superstitions just like those gentlemen from the old days!

I'll tell ya...

He's a very successful prospector with good skills and an Eagle Eye. It takes perseverance and patience to find rich patches like that!

Bill

What about Frank Augustine ?