Excalibur 2 falsing problem.

[rons1947]

Hi All.I sent my Excalibur 2 in for repair this Summer and they replaced the coil.I hadn't kept the sand from between the coil and coil cover,often enough,so the coil developed leaks and had to be replaced.The repair cost $297.00 . After I got the detector back,I put a spray-on coating on the coil to protect it from wear.It worked well for a while,then the detector started falsing in the water and wet sand.Sometimes,it falses at the extreme end of each swing,both left and right.I hunt Cocoa Beach mostly and we have had a lot of erosion and sanding in.I don't know if it's the detector or the beach conditions? Has anyone else had any falsing problems hunting this beach with the Excalibur 2? Thanks in advance.

 

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[jim/wpb]

Even though I have 2 Excals, and I believe the technology is the best, the quality control and manufacturing processes are third world. I pray that someone other than Minelab makes a detector that matches the discrimination.

After using the original Gary Storm Excal for years, I switched to newer versions. It has been headaches since. The Las Vegas service was the worst and although Chicago is better, their repair costs for things that IMO are their fault, are outrageous .

I believe we as consumers should expect them to step up to the plate. I've spent at least $10k on their machines over the years and I don't know if I would buy another.

 

[Jason in Enid]

How do you know that sand caused leaks in the original coil? did you witness yourself or was that what they told you? I ask because that explanation sounds like garbage.

It sounds like you have more serious problems. I just had my excal repaired. It had a control pot go bad and I knew that was the problem. Their answer? They replaced the pot, the headphones, the battery cable, AND the coil. Who knows, they may have put a whole new motherboard in there as well.

While my excal works great again, it seems pointless to replace everything but the PCB. It also costed me about $50 more, so it seems their pricing is as erratic as their service. At least it only took a few weeks to get it back.

I wish they weren't such great detectors. It's hard to hate something that does such a great job when operating correctly.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

Falsing occurs at the extreme end of each sweep on most any detector when the coil is angled up being no longer parallel to the ground (like a pendulum). Rather than swinging your coil above the ground try sweeping it on the ground; there should be no falsing at the extreeme ends of the sweep.

It may be that where you are hunt at Cocoa Beach is difficult to maintain coil control.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You do not say what your sensitivity setting is set at? the hotter you set it the more falsing your going to get. It is extremely unlikely that your going to get a hole in your coil because of sand between the coil cover and the coil, better chance of the coil seperating from high heat of being left in the car or trunk in Florida heat.

Different beaches have different concentrations of salt, black sand etc so that is also a factor..... I personally don't use a coil cover for hunting on Florida beaches, haven't damaged a coil yet here by hunting, but I did crack one when I let it fall off my van like an idot... (no rule violation there, I can call myself an idiot, just not someone else...LOL)

What your describing doesn't sound like a coil problem at all. I get that on both my excals, just like when a wave rolls over the coil you get falsing, you know its going to happen so you know what it is...

On minelab repairs they usually don't chase a problem down to the failed component, they just replace it, usually replacing the motherboard. It is easier and quicker than isolating the issue to the component. I work on Crisco servers, routers, when we do a repair we don't open it up and fix it, we put in a new one, a fan goes bad, we pull the whole router and put in a new one, send the old one back to cisco....

Some hunters hunt only in auto, that will cause lots of problems, you should always tune your detector for the beach your at.....

 

[Mainelypulltab]

The sensitivity setting is what I was going to ask. I just cleaned my coil and coil cover and there was some sand in between them but nothing close to any leaks. Only been using the Ecall II for a couple of years and I have yet to have a problem. Knock on wood! The first beach I hit this summer, I realized my sensitivity setting were just a tad too high and I had the same issue as you describe. Of course, I figured it out after I left the beach for my drive home, about an hour and a half inland. Best of luck and hopefully you are able to resolve the issue and find the sweet stuff.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Falsing occurs at the extreme end of each sweep on most any detector when the coil is angled up being no longer parallel to the ground (like a pendulum). Rather than swinging your coil above the ground try sweeping it on the ground; there should be no falsing at the extreeme ends of the sweep.

I have NEVER had a false like you describe since moved away from 1970's technology! No current detectors should ever be falsing because of reversing direction or lifting the coil. If they are, something is seriously wrong with them (or they are super cheap chinese imports)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Jason, I get what he describes on my excals sometimes and they are not broke, chinese or cheap....lol. Can't tell you what causes it, but since I know they are false I don't worry about it.....

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Hey rons, I get that falseys if the sensitivity is too high, just crank it back a bit. Do check, make sure no sand in coil/cover.

Double check also, that your cable isn't getting moved about in the waves or currents. Down here in SE Fl., when the current is real strong or it's kinda wavy/choppy (not dead calm still), if my cable isn't sitting just right, the pull of the current will move it some towards the coil, giving falseys. Like trying to surf hunt, and the coil gets thowed around(back and forth) you gotta have some slack in the cable so you don't snap the connector, but not too much slack, that it throws off those falseys. I usually elevate mine up some with electrical tape and that cures the problem, unless it's really rough and churning.

One of the other posters alluded to, the coil not being parrallel to the ground, gets turned? Could that be some of the interference?
Am I making any sense up there or is it just coming out mew mew mew?

 

[NYwaterhunter]

15 years with ex cal's
falseing does not happen as described
something else is going on
i suspect coil wire / loose wire
good luck

 

[jim/wpb]

Minelab has issues with Excal's and this has been more than a few years in the making. The falsing is more than likely the coils as that is what they replaced on my new detectors. A few of them went back multiple times. You shouldn't need to set your sensitivity on 3:00 to get it to calm down.

I have had every generation and the older ones were by far the best. I suspect they lost the recipe by virtue of the lack of quality and process control by not keeping their eye on the road.

 

[dewcon4414]

Ive got to disagree guys.... MOST machines ive used dirt digging will false if you run higher sensitivity and lift the coil at the end of your swing. I run my Xcal as hot as possible and if im not paying attention or start getting tired out there i lift my coil and get a false signal. You also get it the deeper you get out there, meaning you may need to tweak your machine because of salt content in the water. Its a pretty obvious tone thou, but machines do vary. I do have to say unlike many of the ML machines sand between the coil and cover isnt as much of a problem with the Sov and Xcal..... let me back up and say here in Fl. TH is right its pretty standard for tech companies to swap things out and get it our of the repair shop quicker any more. To me the coils seem to be the weak point on the Xcal. A lot has to do with those ears..... ever take a look at yours? They tend to bend inward and we all lean on our detector out there.... dont we? I sure aint the one to argue with someone having 14 years on the Xcal thou.... might want to get it check out. I sure agree with you Jason about the Xcal..... just a great machine when shes hot shes hot.

 

[rons1947]

Thank you all for your input,I really appreciate it.Treasure Hunter suggested that the salt and black conditions might be to blame for my falsing problem,so I went back to the beach again today to give it one last try.We had a lot of beach erosion when hurricane Sandy passed by,then the beach sanded in after it passed.I guess that the sanding-in brought a lot of black sand with it,which caused my Excal to constantly false,as it has never done before.During the past week,we have had a bit of erosion again.I started out with my sensitivity at 3,and the detector's operation was smooth,so I eventually moved it to 6,which is where I usually have it and it stayed smooth,and I made a few finds.I'm glad that I gave it one more try,before sending it in for repair.

Once again,thanks for your input.

 

[Harold in Fla.]

Hi Ron, well if it is a problem with your coil cover and the sand in between it, if your warranty has run out, what i do and been doing it for years is put Marine epoxy on the bottom of the coil with a small brush and put like two coats on it, then every so offten just check it for any where spots and just put some more in them spots, so if the sand between your coil and cover is doing it you can do this, ONLY IF YOUR WARRANY HAS RUN OUT.

 

[Jason in Enid]

That will also trap air between the coil and cover making the coil more buoyant, so be careful.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Ive got to disagree guys.... MOST machines ive used dirt digging will false if you run higher sensitivity and lift the coil at the end of your swing. I run my Xcal as hot as possible and if im not paying attention or start getting tired out there i lift my coil and get a false signal. You also get it the deeper you get out there, meaning you may need to tweak your machine because of salt content in the water. Its a pretty obvious tone thou, but machines do vary. I do have to say unlike many of the ML machines sand between the coil and cover isnt as much of a problem with the Sov and Xcal..... let me back up and say here in Fl. TH is right its pretty standard for tech companies to swap things out and get it our of the repair shop quicker any more. To me the coils seem to be the weak point on the Xcal. A lot has to do with those ears..... ever take a look at yours? They tend to bend inward and we all lean on our detector out there.... dont we? I sure aint the one to argue with someone having 14 years on the Xcal thou.... might want to get it check out. I sure agree with you Jason about the Xcal..... just a great machine when shes hot shes hot.

Dew is correct, I have owned 3 excals all the older blue coil style. ALL 3 will do the falsing on the swings if the coil gets up high and especially in the surf...... Davespens is a Minelab expert, he gets the same thing, depending on the beach, water conditions, and the way we work it...... It doesn't happen every time but it does happen, ESPECIALLY if running the detector hot.....

On every beach I will set my sensitivity so unit is very stable, the turned it up a little (hotter).... I don't worry about an ocassional false, I know it is a false signal...

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I've never used the epoxy Harold is talking about, I use marine silicone, to seal my cover.

The first time I sealed it, I tried to make it all nice and pretty, swiped my silicone bead, one could barely tell it even had anything on it. Big Mistake, as in, when I needed to clean and re-silicone it, it was a pain in the butt to get all that silicone off.

From then on, I just make a 3 - 5mm bead of silicone, go all around the cover, being real sure I haven't missed a spot, let it dry a few days. I've only had to reseal this way, maybe once every 6 to 8 months. It comes off a lot cleaner in that 3-5mm bead, when you do hafta re-seal them.
It didn't create an air problem or coil float problem for me.

eta, I've often wondered if that liquid rubber wouldn't coat the bottom of the coil well, also. I've just never tried that stuff either. I kinda don't want anything (other than the cover) coating the bottom of my coil. That may just be a 'me' type thing.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

It seems every time I use the Excalibur II 1000 I encounter a new problem.

I understand that the analog portion of its design allows the user the ability to rapidly change modes, threshold, volume, sensitivity, and discrimination without the need of a visual display. And that the wider variance between analog components verses digital components is the reason why there is such a difference between Excalibur II detectors (some being hot, others being not).

The analog components are also this detectors Achilles heal as the knobs to the pots are easily broken or stripped, pots tend to develop rough spots over time and switches freeze or become intermittent.
In addition there is always the danger of fraying / breaking/fatiguing the cable to the hard wired headsets (which always seem to fall off) and the search coil. Especially if you are use hip mount, chest mount or back mount for the control and signal processing tube and the battery pod.

Though the digital components are highly reliable, little is known about the controller, and less is known about the algorithms that are used to process the selected 17 frequencies.

This detector appears to be like a guitar in that it is easy to use, but difficult to master.

The question(s) that I am trying to get around to ask and need answers to is:
1. With such a wide variance in performance between individual detectors and such limited information on how it's software works how do you know if your detector is working properly?

- Or put otherwise are there any benchmarks that your Excalibur can be compared against?

2 For other than catastrophic failures, when should the detector be returned for repair? It seems like I encounter a different problem every time I use it.

As I live in a remote location and hunt alone, I cannot compare one detector against another, and there is no metal dealer nearby.

3. I have heard that it is better to tune your detector to the beach you are detecting rather than use auto sensitivity, but do not know how to determine when the detector is properly tuned.

4. My detector is more stable in the discrimination mode than in the pin point mode.
It also detects coins deeper in the discrimination mode than the pin point mode.
I find this puzzling as it is supposed to be the other way around .

I use the below switch and pot settings at the beach when hunting on dry sand, wet sand, and in shallow water:
Power - On
Mode - Discriminate
Sensitivity - Auto, as I am trying to learn the detector.
Threshold - faint buzzing mosquito, to below where I can hear it when there is a lot of ferrous metal
Volume - Maximum to be able to hear faint deep targets. Use wet sponges in ear cup(s) to dampen loud returns from shallow coins.
Discrimination at 1 , increase to 3 if there are a lot of bottle caps to make it easier to distinguish them.

Oh by the way, though I have not yet had to send a detector back to Minelab for repair, my experience with Minelab in answer(s) to my question(s) and in providing parts that I could repair myself has been favorable.
It is probable that they are replacing more than the part that failed as such failures can cause stress increasing the probability of multiple failures later. Also, by replacing parts with high failure rate(s), customers will be more satisfied as it is less likely that they will have to resend the detector back in for repair. As a customer, I am very grateful when any company does more than it is necessary to repair the item I sent in, especially if it only cost me a few bucks more since shipping costs to and from where I live are high.

 

[OBN]

SG......
little is known about the controller

Here is a Peek


Funny it says Sov on it....

 

[Jason in Enid]

What's so hard to "master"? Turn it on and set the threshold. Adjust the sens until it just starts to settle down. Set the Disc and dig everything that beeps.

How are having different problems every time you turn it on? That very description sounds like a catastrophic failure. It sounds more like you have no faith in the detector, than the detector is failing to perform.

I agree the user manual is severely lacking, have you tried any of the books by CJC? He does an excellent job of explaining.