Expected types of clues

[treasure1822]

Like Scotland, Iceland, or particularly Greenland. Portugal was not the end of the world, but no one started any crap with them during that period of time. You do know that Pope John XXII signed off on the Order of Christ two years after it was established, right? I don't know how he felt about the order and Denis, but he felt comfortable enough to give the order the Templar holdings in Portugal. This doesn't strike me as a man or an organization that was holding a grudge.

The "Order of Christ" was started 1318 which means the were pardoned in 1320. That was 13 years after the persecution of the DeMolay, I don believe the Templar's were sitting around hoping thing would get better. And I would assume that they had lost that level of "Trust". As for the "Grudge", I believe that it would be the "Templar's" who would be holding a "Grudge" because they were the victim of this ordeal.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hmmm Treasure 1822, for your information longitude could be fairly established on land by using a noonday shot. Interesting theory never the less. No clock is needed.

So the Templ;ars sailed to the new world, for what purpose ? They had limited procreative possibilities and the order would soon be incapbable of maintaining the establishment's purpose in Creating or maintaining a religeous base. No public to preach to.? ?

 

[lokiblossom]

Hmmm Treasure 1822, for your information longitude could be fairly established on land by using a noonday shot. Interesting theory never the less. No clock is needed.

So the Templ;ars sailed to the new world, for what purpose ? They had limited procreative possibilities and the order would soon be incapbable of maintaining the establishment's purpose in Creating or maintaining a religeous base. No public to preach to.? ?

Not necessarily true. What was needed on water was the exact time difference from a known longitude to your current location, hence an accurate clock. On land you needed to determine the distance from a known longitude, or use a clock.
For instance, if your noon reading is one hour later then your noon reading at home you are 15 degrees of longitude west of home.

Also, I don't think the Templars were in the business of preaching.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi lokiblossom, you are quite correct. At sea you definately need an accurate clock. On Land it is invaluable also, but on land you can make a noontime shot by determining the relative exact time for the sun to reach its's apex. You then can interpolate from your last sight and estimated distance traveled --not nearly as accurate or efficient as with an accurate clock.

Incidentially, accurate navigation came long after the knights. They only had quaterstaffs and no watches.

 

[lokiblossom]

hi lokiblossom, you are quite correct. At sea you definately need an accurate clock. On Land it is invaluable also, but on land you can make a noontime shot by determining the relative exact time for the sun to reach its's apex. You then can interpolate from your last sight and estimated distance traveled --not nearly as accurate or efficient as with an accurate clock.

Incidentially, accurate navigation came long after the knights. They only had quaterstaffs and no watches.

I have been arguing for years that the Templars could accurately measure latitude and I appreciate that you agree with me on that point. I'm sure you would also agree they had the compass.
While the early Vikings did not have a means to accurately determine latitude their great experience gave them the ability to guess their approximate position North to South.
Cheers, Loki

 

[treasure1822]

Hmmm Treasure 1822, for your information longitude could be fairly established on land by using a noonday shot. Interesting theory never the less. No clock is needed.

So the Templ;ars sailed to the new world, for what purpose ? They had limited procreative possibilities and the order would soon be incapbable of maintaining the establishment's purpose in Creating or maintaining a religeous base. No public to preach to.? ?[/QUOTE

I do agree that they could have made a more accurate "guestimate" on the longitude I still have to ask my self "How Close" is acceptable. As a design engineer I utilize "Deviation Allowance" and in the determination on how much would be acceptable towards their navigation I am in mind to be a little more forgiving in the longitude if the latitude was a closer. In this particular case the Latitude was within 10 minute of a degree and in the area of the longitude they had gave a "range" and if the were 1 degree more east it would have fit in the range.

 

[lokiblossom]

Hmmm Treasure 1822, for your information longitude could be fairly established on land by using a noonday shot. Interesting theory never the less. No clock is needed.

So the Templ;ars sailed to the new world, for what purpose ? They had limited procreative possibilities and the order would soon be incapbable of maintaining the establishment's purpose in Creating or maintaining a religeous base. No public to preach to.? ?[/QUOTE



I do agree that they could have made a more accurate "guestimate" on the longitude I still have to ask my self "How Close" is acceptable. As a design engineer I utilize "Deviation Allowance" and in the determination on how much would be acceptable towards their navigation I am in mind to be a little more forgiving in the longitude if the latitude was a closer. In this particular case the Latitude was within 10 minute of a degree and in the area of the longitude they had gave a "range" and if the were 1 degree more east it would have fit in the range.

That was the point I was making, when sailing over open water in the 14th century it was very difficult to even guess at longitude. The only possibility was to estimate how far or fast you had sailed. Later navigators (Champlain for one) would include the compass variation from true north in their logs which could give somewhat of an indication of longitude, but highly inaccurate.

 

[treasure1822]

That was the point I was making, when sailing over open water in the 14th century it was very difficult to even guess at longitude. The only possibility was to estimate how far or fast you had sailed. Later navigators (Champlain for one) would include the compass variation from true north in their logs which could give somewhat of an indication of longitude, but highly inaccurate.

On that coastline of Nova Scotia near Overton is a stone carving. To me it is a depiction of a Native American medicine wheel representing the "Four Direction" of the earth. The center of this particular wheel is different being the ends of the cross are flared as to me meaning "Templar Cross". Look at the feathers carved to the upper right of that wheel, To the native Americans the Eagle Feather was considered to be a great gift from the gods. The other thing is the placement of the feather to the quadrants of the wheel. "North East" seems to be the direction indicated and there is also a "Crescent moon" carved. Now the crescent moon has numerous meaning in cultural symbolism's. I believe in this particular case it is referring to time. The "Waxing Moon" or about 4 days journey. That put us in the area of "Oak Island, do you thing that the "Templar's" might have placed a gift from their "God" in that area?

 

[lokiblossom]

On that coastline of Nova Scotia near Overton is a stone carving. To me it is a depiction of a Native American medicine wheel representing the "Four Direction" of the earth. The center of this particular wheel is different being the ends of the cross are flared as to me meaning "Templar Cross". Look at the feathers carved to the upper right of that wheel, To the native Americans the Eagle Feather was considered to be a great gift from the gods. The other thing is the placement of the feather to the quadrants of the wheel. "North East" seems to be the direction indicated and there is also a "Crescent moon" carved. Now the crescent moon has numerous meaning in cultural symbolism's. I believe in this particular case it is referring to time. The "Waxing Moon" or about 4 days journey. That put us in the area of "Oak Island, do you thing that the "Templar's" might have placed a gift from their "God" in that area?

I have seen that carving before but didn't pay much attention to it. It does seem to represent a Templar style cross although to me it looks a little too fresh. Can you post the exact position, ie, latitude and longitude, and do you know if anybody has researched the carvings age?
Btw, I have been to the medicine wheel in Wyoming's Bighorn Mountains (just off highway alt14) and I don't see any resemblance. What is it that makes you think it depicts a medicine wheel?
Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

Could these symbols be Alchemist?

These symbols show similarities to "Freemasons's" 17th Century Alchemist Symbols.

The Cross - No. 81. Diluted Vinegar
The Feather - No. 40. Aluminum
The Reversed Moon - No. 14. Silver

View attachment 1149809

 

[treasure1822]

I have seen that carving before but didn't pay much attention to it. It does seem to represent a Templar style cross although to me it looks a little too fresh. Can you post the exact position, ie, latitude and longitude, and do you know if anybody has researched the carvings age?
Btw, I have been to the medicine wheel in Wyoming's Bighorn Mountains (just off highway alt14) and I don't see any resemblance. What is it that makes you think it depicts a medicine wheel?
Cheers, Loki

Well, as far as I can tell no one has really investigated this carving or the Norumbega Vinland stone or the Westford Boat stone. Experts have looked at it through pictures and made off the cuff opinions but I believe that they based on "There is no real reason for them being where they are so they must be a fake". Look into the Native American representation of the earth and the four direction. Basic representation is a circle with a vertical line and a horizontal line reaching to the diameter dividing the circle into 4 quadrants.

There is a dot at the end of each end of the lines representing the 4 directions of the wind. North,South,East and West.
I will find the exact coordinates of that carving, I'm not really trained in the judging of stone carvings but I would believe that a few major factors have to be brought into the equation such a type of stone, depth of original carving, exposure to elements. Look at the same quality of the Boat Stone and Norumbega Vinland Stone oh, and the "G" stone on Oak Island and they seem to have the same amount of wear.

 

[treasure1822]

These symbols show similarities to "Freemasons's" 17th Century Alchemist Symbols.

The Cross - No. 81. Diluted Vinegar
The Feather - No. 40. Aluminum
The Reversed Moon - No. 14. Silver

Remember the "Templar's became the Freemason's. Let me ask all this question, "What does the Westford Boat Stone, The Stone Carving in Overton, the Norumbega Vindland Stone and Noland's property on Oak Island all have in common? Answer....The all have the symbol of "Christianity" on them...THE CROSS........The Templar's belonged to a Order that predates Christianity, a order whose members who sat at the right hand of God.

 

[lokiblossom]

These symbols show similarities to "Freemasons's" 17th Century Alchemist Symbols.

The Cross - No. 81. Diluted Vinegar
The Feather - No. 40. Aluminum
The Reversed Moon - No. 14. Silver

Remember the "Templar's became the Freemason's. Let me ask all this question, "What does the Westford Boat Stone, The Stone Carving in Overton, the Norumbega Vindland Stone and Noland's property on Oak Island all have in common? Answer....The all have the symbol of "Christianity" on them...THE CROSS........The Templar's belonged to a Order that predates Christianity, a order whose members who sat at the right hand of God.

The symbol of the cross was well used by almost everybody, but it would be an interesting study to see if any of these are connected.

The early 12th century beginning of the Templar Order is very well documented. What information do you have that says otherwise?

Cheers, Loki

 

[treasure1822]

The early 12th century beginning of the Templar Order is very well documented. What information do you have that says otherwise?

Cheers, Loki

Sorry, i'm not understanding the question.

The "Cross" that seems to stand out for me is the Norumbega Vinland Stone, the cross is on the back of "Sigurd". But this is a Old Norse legend and was before "Christianity".

 

[treasure1822]

The symbol of the cross was well used by almost everybody, but it would be an interesting study to see if any of these are connected.

The early 12th century beginning of the Templar Order is very well documented. What information do you have that says otherwise?

Cheers, Loki

Sorry Loki, I understand your question now. I meant the Templar's belonged top a Order that predated Christianity in a somewhat "Figurative" way. I am referring to the people of the Bible who were supposedly favored by God. Enoch, Methuselah, Lemeach, Noah, Moses, ect. To be at the "Right Hand" of God. Remember that the Templar's did not pledge their dying devotion to Church or King. It was to God and then to their brethren.

 

[casarachi]

I actually thought the original post was about what they left behind as evidence... to prove they were on the island in the first place. Wouldn't there be some average every day relics, like things they might have left behind or lost in the woods. Maybe something like an ax... some tools, maybe pewter cups.... wine jug spicket.. something. A sword would be a treasure in itself if it were from the Templars! What they've found so far, that hasn't went missing, has revealed little.

I would think a crew of metal detecting folk (hint) could comb those woods and beach and find out what the deal is. There has to be evidence. You don't have an operation like that and not leave something.

 

[n2mini]

As many people that have been all over that island everything that was just laying around has been found I'd think. Was much easier to find stuff back 50-100 years when there wasn't near as many tress as there is now.. Granted might be stuff buried and or in the tunnels..

 

[treasure1822]

Finding things on the island now is almost impossible. The area around the “Money Pit” has been turned upside down. None of the original markers are in place and I don’t believe they even know the exact spot of the original “Money Pit”.

When I brought up the “Expected Clues” it was in reference to future generation to follow. It’s like playing “chess”. An effective player tries to anticipate his opponent’s moves, as does a military leader. I am in the belief that the Templar’s were smart enough and did give extensive thought to the possibility of their fortune or religious relics being sought by less favorable people, ie: King Phillip IV and or the Church.

Now, a good Templar strategist would assume that King Phillip IV or Pope Clemont V would have knowledge of the Templar order and their belief of “Enoch”. A great strategist would use that to his benefit. There is something to be said for the “Book of Enoch”, it talks of a “Vault” that was built below the ground in honor of God, but it also talks of a great dark abyss found at the end of the world where the fallen angels were kept and the dissevers. It was Enoch’s description that prompted “Dante’s Inferno”. What was the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] level of Hell called, “Treachery”. What was found at the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] level of the “Money Pit” or 90 feet down? A stone tablet that tells them 2 million pound was 40 feet deep. What happen when they went deeper? FLOOD!

What is the one deadly “Sins” that the Templar’s were counting on? GREED…..

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I agree with the above - at least the first paragraph. ;-)

Our "minor" metal detectors would be fun but ineffective. There is nothing on all of Oak Island that hasn't been tossed, buried, redug, drained, graded, flooded and just generally contaminated and destroyed in all of the operations that have gone on since the 1800's. If you did find something (like the "pirate" coin on TV) it was probably disturbed from where it was originally dropped.

On the other hand, I'd love to find a pocket spill from someone there in 1795, or even 1822, digging away at dreams. There's been a lot of traffic on that island.

 

[Upnorth42]

I live in the area of the "Overton Stone" so decided to go out and have a look. Its very easy to get to only a 500 or so metre walk from a parking spot. A few things bother me about its authenticity. It is right at the location of what used to be a popular spot to go for sight seeing an picnics called "the churn". I have spent most of my life in this area and no one has ever mentioned it. There is another well known stone here called the runic stone. It is known by most people here. Some of the older people here say the stone (overton stone) has been there for many years. Not the carving though.

I suppose if you were an explorer though its a logical place to put a marker because it is the most westerly place in Nova Scotia. Its actually not but its very close. The more I ask around about this the more I think its a hoax.

Tom