Florida is essentially eliminating Treasure Hunting July 1, 2012

[biggmike]

I think we all know the intent of the new laws. After Odyssey Marine Exploration found the $500 million in the 17 tons of silver and gold coins they scooped up off the ocean bottom that there needed to be laws in place. I always thought we had to turn over stuff like that to the state anyways. "When you little scamps get together, you're worse than a sewing circle."

 

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[ron lord]

Aquanut is pushing this way out of shape.This new law or amendment is to protect 9 Archaeological sites that the State already owns.Remenber this 99% of all artifacts in Fla. are made out of clay,shell or wood, not metal. One other thing you all need to think about , Coins do not belong to the State of Fl. ,but to the U.S.A. A 1950 penny might be an artifact but the State doesn't own it.So now calm down ,go hunt and relax, this law will not effect MD hobbist.Stay away from Archaeoloigcal and Historical sites.

 

[Reef Dawg]

RON LORD, with all due respect, you are dead wrong. This is only the very subtle (although to some, not so subtle) way for the State to start and shut down this industry. It starts off small, an amendment here, a change there, and before you know it, the entire industry will be re-shaped and only the "big boys" will have access to this enterprise, most of them being educational endeavors with "holier than thou" marching orders.

The Odyssey case was the quin-essential catalyst for this movement. It was ruled on legally to set precedent that would forever change what we knew as this industry or those involved and at what entitlement, or lack thereof, was to become the future of treasure hunting and who would be involved.

These pieces of legislation are a testing ground for future changes. And many have seen that the proposed language creates broad interpretation and discretionary tactics of enforcement that will lead to further future amendments, and before you know it, treasure hunting will be illegal in any form or enterprise through private entities.

There is also buzz at the BAR, that certain near future legislation will include retroactive clauses and could be a cause to serve notice of seizures on past finds and claims.

Nothing that has been done or is being talked about on TreasureNet will have any effect. There is no real concentrated or unified effort, or legal challenge at the moment. Letters, no matter how abundant, will not be the kind of numbers that will suffice a reversal of this ideology.

I stated years ago, that only a Federal and State in parallel legal challenge/action, or injunction will work. But to date, not one single line of legal wording has been written, filed or begun to abate the inevitable.

 

[RiverRat3]

Maryland has a similar law on its books. Are beaches owned by the state or is it considered public land in Florida? In Maryland if its state property you cannot detect but there are exemptions. Any navigatable waterway in Maryland that the land underneath is not privately owned then its ok to use for whatever recreational activity you enjoy. Only exemption would be areas around state owned boat ramps or conservation areas. Some politician did not think of the ramifications this bill is going to cause to the tourism of the state of Florida.

 

[lookindown]

I thought Florida already had a law saying you couldnt keep anything over a certain age. If your caught with an old item tell them its your good luck charm and you found it before the law was changed. You are allowed to posses old items, so there is no way for them to enforce this law. They would have to see you dig it, and you could still tell them you were going to turn it over to the state. The law doesnt say, no metal detecting, so keep doing your thing.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Sandman, you say:

" It states no detecting on the beaches period"

Actually, no. Lookindown is right, it never actually says that (the words "metal detecting", or "metal detectors", etc...). Yes it can be CONSTRUED to apply to us, but ONLY if you are looking for, or finding, "archaeological specimens". Therefore it would dis-clude modern coins, modern jewelry, etc... Oh sure, someone could try to say you were "attempting", I suppose, but so too could someone accuse anyone nearly walking down the beach of "attempting". Because it has verbage for non-excavating (ie.: picking things up off the top of the ground).

While I know this seems silly (afterall, why hunt if there ISN'T a potential to find old coins, right?), but not really: I hunt beaches all the time, even when there is no prospect of finding old coins, because the sand I'm hunting is perhaps entirely of the last decades sand-fill-in. We have a certain touristy beach here, for instance, that has scarcelly given up any more old coins after the beach was ravaged during the 1982-83 storms that hit CA. Ever since then, aside from occasional flukes, it's entirely modern losses (I guess, unless we get a storm that scours down harder and deeper than those 1982-83 storms did!). Yet we local guys continue to hunt there when subsequent erosion occurs, because of jewelry potential. Whenever mother nature starts grouping clad into zones, to the point where we start getting 30 to 50-ish clad, we slow down and work it hard. NOT because of any old items, but because of the jewelry potential, since this is a warm-water touristy swimming beach!

So it need not be some sort of "subterfuge" when you say "I'm only looking for modern coins". There are actually beach hunting conditions where you may *truly* have no goal, or even potential, for "archaeological specimens", yet still want to hunt.

 

[ron lord]

Everyone is " BITCHEN " about this law ,but know one but a few have read the law and can under stand English.

 

[hobbit]

Everyone is " BITCHEN " about this law ,but know one but a few have read the law and can under stand English.

It is abundantly clear who can read and understand English. The proof is in the pudding. And in the writing.

 

[lookindown]

Everyone is " BITCHEN " about this law ,but know one but a few have read the law and can under stand English.

Yep, the whole thing was a misunderstanding, check the new posts that are being put up....the sky was not falling...everything is fine.

 

[biggmike]

Everyone is " BITCHEN " about this law ,but know one but a few have read the law and can under stand English.

Yep, the whole thing was a misunderstanding, check the new posts that are being put up....the sky was not falling...everything is fine.

I bet everyone on here that is saying we can't hunt after July 1, 2012 will be right out there hunting with us on July 2nd......

 

[Bobbypins]

The biggest problem with this whole bill, being vague or not, comes down to one thing....

If metal detecting isn't explicitly EXCLUDED for the hobbyist, then it's implicitly INCLUDED to mean such.

Interpretation of the law isn't OUR job... That's left to the ticket writers.

But the biggest indication that it's a personal attack on metal detecting is that there are enough laws on the books to protect those sacred grounds involving shipwrecks. The question to ask is WHY this bill has to be passed? What's in THIS bill that isn't covered elsewhere.... and I think you'll find that it's the vague underwriting.

 

[seeker41]

update...........................



from Jerry Hitson (FMDAC):

Update from Alan Hayes:

The effects of SB 868 have been misunderstood. This bill simply extends current law to areas in which the State currently does not have jurisdiction. The extension is very small in scope in order to cover areas such as those depict. These are pictures of land owned by Lake County Water Authority, a political subdivision/special taxing district created by the legislature within my district. As current law is written, when this type of damage is done to the property, law enforcement’s hands are tied and they cannot take action to enforce preservation of the land or the artifacts recovered. As you can see from the pictures, the bill is addressing unauthorized excavation and exploration on these types of lands.

This bill does not impact private lands, the ability of individuals to use a metal detector on our beaches, or any of the activities these hobby enthusiasts legally enjoy now.

My office has been in contact with staff from detectingrights.com. and clarified what the bill actually addresses. Hopefully, if you belong to that organization, you will be receiving an email soon. I would also encourage you to visit the updated post on their website at detectingrights.com and look at the tab which states items requiring immediate attention.

I understand where some of the confusion on this bill may have originated. The original language of the bill had a drafting error that was caught and corrected during the first committee stop. The bill originally read “any lands” when it should have read “any state owned lands”, so it was never my intent to prohibit anyone from doing anything on their own land. It was never my intention to create overly burdensome regulations, and I do believe in keeping government small, but when I see in my own district where our shorelines are being washed away by someone with a “borrowed” garden hose, or holes are being dug deep enough for someone to stand in, and all this damage must be repaired, I need to take action.

I do appreciate the posts and your letting me know this concern was out there and that word was spreading regarding the potential impact of this bill. Hopefully, I have been able to address your concerns and create a better understanding of what this legislation is all about.


Staff Analysis for SB 868
[www.flsenate.gov]
/Fc8PqfZE=PL=7glAi5D5WcObC2RU74=%7C11/Public/Bills/
0800-0899/0868/Analysis/2012s0868.pre.bta.PDF
News updates from Task Force For Metal Detecting Rights Foundation

 

[Bluetangclan]

Seeing as I just bought a detector a couple weeks ago with the intent of beach hunting, detecting on beaches is still kosher? I was about to get really ticked and write another letter to Scott.

 

[mad4wrecks]

If you are on Facebook, please join this open group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/162198840565602/


Apologies if this was posted elsewhere.

Thank You, Tom

 

[Bum Luck]

"The effects of SB 868 have been misunderstood. This bill simply extends current law to areas in which the State currently does not have jurisdiction."

Read that statement again, until it sinks in.

We have those areas in Wisconsin. Two years ago the DNR archie decided on his own that there would be NO detecting on state controlled properties. That, because of a legal principle called the "Public Trust Doctrine". He is the officer of that Public Trust, and so prohibits metal detecting on state controlled properties.

That includes ALL waters in the state; rivers, streams, lakes, and marshes.

As well as state parks, state natural areas, state recreation areas, state forests, and probably shorelines. Here's a link to that discussion:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=215494.0

Why won't that happen in Florida?

Archies are irritated that anyone but them can dig in the dirt, "their turf". It's that simple. They watch TV and see the shows and they see stuff we dig up (in Wisconsin it's copper points), and it violates the "Public Trust Doctrine". They are its cops. It's envy and jealousy and job protection (and the nagging question of why THEY'RE not finding much). Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

 

[seeker41]

chanel 9 news brevard county, just did a report on the tresurehunting ban. it might air again on the 6pm or 11pm broadcast.
chuck.

 

[lostcauses]

chanel 9 news brevard county, just did a report on the tresurehunting ban. it might air again on the 6pm or 11pm broadcast.
chuck.

the written version
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/treasure-hunters-worry-about-state-regulation/nLKNx/

 

[Tom_in_CA]

lost-causes, thanx for the link. Interesting.

 

[lostcauses]

Tom I think we see this mess as over hyped.

It is creating a great deal of attention to the Mders though, which I don't see as good.

 

[Bum Luck]

Tom,

Maybe now you can see what's going on here. BTW, anyone that's spent any time on these pages knows that most of the stuff said about Bob is untrue.

We've been called "pot hunters" and "Grave robbers" for years by these guys, but it's plain to see that the fight now has been ramped up by some stealth campaign.

I've worked with and known archeologists, both as a surveyor and as a metal detectorist, and I've got to say most of them are unproductive (a polite term for lazy), arrogant, dogmatic, and self-important. Remember, these were the guys who said there were no Vikings in the New World for years after the L'Anse aux Meadows site was uncovered - by a lawyer-explorer. I have actually known a few that were hard-working, honest, diligent, and worst crime of all - open minded and curious. Together with them a lot of work has gotten done.

These have been a joy to work with, and it's no surprise that the good ones are shunned by the bad ones, and threatened with discreditation, a sort of 21st century witch hunt with their careers in the hands of the academic establishment.