florida shipwreck treasure salvage changes.

[signumops]

Brad:
The database is probably in 16 bit dBase, which can be imported to several existing host programs such as ArcView or a number of spreadsheet products. Load the file into a programming editor and examine the headers. It could also be a COBOL product. When examining the file in a programming editor (I use ConTEXT myself) if the contents are in machine code, then an appropriate interpreter will be needed once the source is identified. There is a remote possibility that the data is in a format appendable to AutoDesk's DWG format, but I doubt it. Government has generally opted for shapefile information storage in these venues which use dBase files for annotation (all the text descriptive data) combined with spatial declarations for position.

 

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[ScubaFinder]

CLOBBER - Coalition for Less Obtrusive Bureaucratic BS and Excessive Regulation :-)

 

[Booty Salvage]

How can we help?

 

[bikerlawyer]

I'm having trouble locating the CD from the State

 

[Salvor6]

"I'm having trouble locating the CD from the State"

It probably self destructs after 30 days.

 

[huntsman53]

I'm having trouble locating the CD from the State

If it was older than 50 years old, the State of Florida probably confiscated it!


Frank

 

[G.I.B.]

There are a lot of folks here with talents that may be of benefit in supporting a collaborative effort to enact the changes you seek.

I've seen organizations make changes with our laws, but it takes a focused effort along with some unrelenting and persistant attention.

I'm willing to help-

 

[seeker41]

did anyone even know this was being attempted?? FPAN statement on the proposed Citizen Archaeology Permit (CAP)

also read the following and note how they try and justify their worth,................."Florida Governor Rick Scott and Anthropology, one year later".

chuck.

 

[GatorBoy]

Yes..knew all about that.
That was a timely subject and link on the treasurebeachesreport blog. Wasn't it?
Not Coincidence.
Please read FLNative's responce.

 

[Jon Phillips]

That was me that responed as "FL Native". That was the "Citizens Archeological Permit" that I referred to in this thread. Besides some talk on a couple of forums, the only thing I could find on it was that woman "railing" on it like it would be the end of the world on several blogs, and newspaper editorial sections... That's why I said that I don't even know if it is, or was, a real thing.

 

[seeker41]

Yes..knew all about that.
That was a timely subject and link on the treasurebeachesreport blog. Wasn't it?
Not Coincidence.
Please read FLNative's responce.

hmmmm.....I totally missed it if tg had it on his blog!!!! yes, I took notice of fla natives comments and some of the other sides as well!

chuck.

 

[Jolly Mon]

If nothing else, you have to love FPAN's chutzpah.

Here they indict the old isolated finds program and reference the South Carolina hobby diver program as being a failure:



But here is a snippet from, Marine Archaeology, a Reader of Substantive and Theoretical Contributions. The snippet is from Chapter 7 of the book, written by Christopher F. Amer and Carl Steen. Christopher Amer is a marine archaeologist and was head of the Marine Research Division of the South Carolina Institute of Archaeology and Anthropology until his retirement in late 2012.
Maritime Archaelogy: A Reader of Substantive and Theoretical Contributions - Google Books


Isn't it funny that FPAN doesn't mention that the marine archaeologists most knowledgeable about the South Carolina Hobby Diver License Program support is wholeheartedly?

 

[LM]

Coordination and motivation are the to keys to legislative success.
Without both, you get nothing.

We have motivation, we have no coordination.
We're also up against the phenomenon known as 'Tragedy of the Commons'.

Here's a list of our state House reps.
Florida House of Representatives - Representatives for Regular Session 2014

This is an issue that, for the most part, is ideologically neutral and has no inherent political bias. One man in each district, acting on behalf of a coordinated effort, could be enough to break the political inertia and actually get motion on the issue, in our favor. The first group who gets coordinated enough to mount an effort will be the group that defines treasure salvage.

It's either us, the people who believe history should be actively recovered, or them, the people who believe that history should be left in the ground because theoretically, they may one day decided to go look for it.

 

[GulfDiver]

Good point, but the other side could counter with the notion that "I always wanted to practice medicine but never took classes to be a doctor-- I don't think I should be punished for that." I don't think I would like an amateur doing surgery on me, regardless of how much they thought they had a right to.

I think a good candidate to start the legal team would be Biker Lawyer here on TNET. Brad is a great guy and I believe his heart is in the right place. He was instrumental in getting the helmet laws reformed in the state of Florida so he already knows about going after faulty policy, and he's a treasure hunter now to boot!

As a side note, Kyle Kennedy, CEO of Seafarer, Inc. recently went head to head with the B.A.R. and basically won. He had Gov. Scott and the State Attorney General on his side. I don't know all of the details exactly, but Kyle caught the state archaeologists in some sort of mess, it caused people to step down and now Kyle seems to be able to get what he wants as far as permits and leases go. When Judd Laird passed away the Juno Beach lease was handed over to SFRX, a few months later SFRX was given a dig and identify lease at Lantana Beach, and recently a 3rd exploration permit was issued as well. Kyle would make a great adviser for the project, as he has already been in the trenches in Tallahassee and came out smelling like a rose.

I would be glad to help with the effort in any way that I can. I know a lot of people want to light torches and storm the capital, but that would accomplish nothing more than generating bad press and further entrenching the state to hold their position. If we go in with facts based on the financial impact of relic hunting and the loss of tourism under the current rules, the loss of the archaeological record via unrecorded finds, and the FACT that state archaeologists have done less ARCHAEOLOGY in the last 10 years than we have done in the last 10 DAYS, we might get the ear of the governor.

The round table meeting is a good idea, getting input from everyone is important but as we all know when you have an OPEN forum, you get ALL of the crazy over-zealous types and only a few of the focused, logical types. I think to be successful, you need a "board of directors" for the effort made up of logical, practical people. Hear from everyone, but present with only a few who can keep the emotion out of it and stick to the facts and figures that matter to politicians. The second this starts sounding like a witch hunt or a conspiracy theory you will loose the higher ups who can make change happen.

I agree with LM's thoughts too, I love the Fisher's but they will fight for laws that help large salvage companies. I'm not saying Taffi wouldn't help and support us, I think she would. I'm saying i don't think large salvage companies look at this the same way you and I do. I am literally addicted to searching for historical sites, whether shipwrecks, battlegrounds, Native American sites, fossils, meteors anything lost that might be found...I'm looking. I couldn't stop looking if I tried, and under the current rules I am a criminal for following my passion for history and the inherent human desire for exploration, knowledge and discovery. Had I realized how powerful that drive was when I was 18 looking for arrowheads and choosing a path for my studies I would have gotten a degree in archaeology, but I didn't. I don't think I should be punished for that, and that is basically what is happening now.

 

[ScubaFinder]

So in your mind, doing surgery on a live human being falls into the same category as picking up a 500 year old arrowhead? If that was all they can come up with as a counter point this would be easy.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Good point, but the other side could counter with the notion that "I always wanted to practice medicine but never took classes to be a doctor-- I don't think I should be punished for that." I don't think I would like an amateur doing surgery on me, regardless of how much they thought they had a right to.

Not really. There's a huge difference in a human life and some artifact that hardly anybody cares about except a few select people who love history.

It would be more akin to saying that Michelangelo shouldn't paint on the Sistine Chapel ceiling because he doesn't have a college degree let alone a Master of Fine Arts degree.

 

[LM]

It would be more akin to saying that Michelangelo shouldn't paint on the Sistine Chapel ceiling because he doesn't have a college degree let alone a Master of Fine Arts degree.

That is, literally, the perfect analogy for this entire situation.

 

[Darren in NC]

I am sad to see the effort in this thread came to a halt. I thought it was worthwhile to hold the state accountable for public disclosure.

A couple of years ago I did a FOIA request to the State, after a bit of haggling back and forth and some $ they gave me a CD but the format was so old I couldn't make heads or tales out of it. I'll see if I can find it and give it to Terry or whoever else is a guru and see what it shows.

I'm having trouble locating the CD from the State

Since bikerlawyer never found the CD, maybe he or someone else that lives nearby can request it again to continue this effort?

 

[Darren in NC]

Nice update to this thread...brought to you, and made possible by both the public and private sector. Imagine that.

Treasures From the State of Florida Collection - 1715 Fleet Society

 

[MPH200]

Very well said Jason. The state artifacts belong to the people. They shoud be accessible & on display for public viewing, not kept in a locked safe somewhere. Old thread but still pertinent.