Gained some new experience this weekend

[Jason in Enid]

This was my first time dredging in fast water! I have been in fast water before, but I always picked spots where the current was slacked. BOY IS IT DIFFERENT! It was also frustrating! My hands and arms are killing me, I've never moved so many rocks in my life. I also never expected the water to behave the way it did.

I started close to shore , made my hole and then worked it out into the current. I could never get more than 4 - 5 feet deep. It was all loose flood material. a 4 foot deep hole needed to be about 10 feet across to be stable. As I worked my hole down, the water pressure kept curling down the down-stream boulders, blasting the sands down the slope to my nozzle. This meant I was spending more time just sucking and less time actually gaining depth. It also meant that it was stripping away everything holding the bolder slope in place. So I sucked for half and hour, gained 6 inches in depth and then the hole collapsed. Spend time heaving rocks out of my hole and keep working down and out. repeat for 2 days. The last collapse was so bad I just called it quits a couple hours early. It would have taken me the rest of my time just to clear it out away.

I have never seen so much black sand. I shot some video but I havent looked at it to see if it shows up or not.

 

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[Hoser John]

Try REALLY fast water that requires 2 weight belts , a tether line to a boat anchor and a small bungee cord to retain your mask as to lift your head and the current rips it off otherwise. Fantastic experience as drop a belt and jet around underwater like flying on your tether. Got fantastic gold but my back is paying the price for such tomfoolery fer sure as 100lb on the small of your back is a tough one.John

 

[Jason in Enid]

Try REALLY fast water that requires 2 weight belts , a tether line to a boat anchor and a small bungee cord to retain your mask as to lift your head and the current rips it off otherwise. Fantastic experience as drop a belt and jet around underwater like flying on your tether. Got fantastic gold but my back is paying the price for such tomfoolery fer sure as 100lb on the small of your back is a tough one.John

Holy cow! How fast was that water moving?! I thought 50 pounds of lead was a lot, 100?!?!?! That makes my back hurt just thinking about it. You are the man Hoser, I don't know if I could handle that much!

 

[NeoTokyo]

Just behind Keswick Dam on the Sacramento river are some excellent holes with ounces upon ounces in them.
BUT The water is ridiculously fierce and fast and you have to be 30-40+ Feet down and you have to be tethered off.

I would not doubt that John has been there.

 

[Hoser John]

GO TO JAIL-DO NOT PASS GO-PAY MANY $100S A DOLLARS IN FINES. Keswick is off limits and a huge portion dredged by the EPA to remove sludge from Iron Mountain mess. Rucky-Chucky highwater, SF American down from Coloma highwater,downriver from 49 bridge again highwater mostly from dam releases. Gotta have a low water-am usually-and a pm setup out in the river. When conditions are horrendous the gold is usually righteous be it fast water,rapids,vertical cliffs ,just go where no mans' gone before RECENTLY that is as virgin ground is rare as a honest politician-John

 

[Jason in Enid]

When conditions are horrendous the gold is usually righteous be it fast water,rapids,vertical cliffs ,just go where no mans' gone before RECENTLY that is as virgin ground is rare as a honest politician-John

It makes sense. The fastest water sweeps all the little stuff away, leaving big boulders and big gold. I have always read that big rocks = big gold. I just wish bedrock was reachable in this river. Next year I plan on spending a longer trip. Maybe if I keep pushing forward, I can get the hole deep enough.

John, I'd love to get your thoughts on dealing with HUGE volumes of BS (black sand, not govt bull scat ) . My sluice is staying clear of cobbles, under and over riffles are staying about 1/2 full of BS, every time I come up. I have watched bullets, sinkers and shot go up my hose and they are always found in the cleanouts, so I hope the BS in the sluice is staying fluid enough to be holding the majority of the fine gold that goes in. But like I said the volume is incredible, and I know the majority is flowing out the end of the box. Every day I clean out I get about 2 1/2 gallons of cons and it is mostly bs, but I have -100 gold in it. would you do multiple cleanouts, or just let it run as long you can still see the tops of the riffles? Your thoughts?



This is the cons straight out of the dredge into the bucket.

 

[Reed Lukens]

The black sand will strip your box of the fine gold. Clean out every hour or more if needed. If it's mostly magnetite, you can run magnets up front with a damper to lengthen the clean out times. Dealing with black sand is difficult because if the box fills up in 30 minutes then you have to get it out of the box somehow. The more black sand that is allowed to choke off the riffles, the more gold will flow over them and out. If you're not using 100lbs to 150lbs of weight to hold you in place then you are not in fast water.

 

[Jason in Enid]

The black sand will strip your box of the fine gold. Clean out every hour or more if needed. If it's mostly magnetite, you can run magnets up front with a damper to lengthen the clean out times. Dealing with black sand is difficult because if the box fills up in 30 minutes then you have to get it out of the box somehow. The more black sand that is allowed to choke off the riffles, the more gold will flow over them and out. If you're not using 100lbs to 150lbs of weight to hold you in place then you are not in fast water.

I was watching a video today of a guy dredging in the same area and he was doing hourly cleanouts and had very good gold recovery, but was also using a different catchment in his box, but I may have to try the hourly cleanout (or however long it takes to see it begin to load with BS) next trip and see what happens.

100 - 150 pounds? I'm starting to think some of yall crossed the line of sanity in search for gold!

 

[Hoser John]

Not the line of sanity, just where men go for the real gold. Actually being a single parent(4) and putting kids through school/college was the real chore that forces you into doing the unthinkable. I'd have to see pics of your box setup, as anyone would, to comment and assist in your recovery. Every hour is not doable for any production as time and extreme labor of such actions will kill ya off and no production=not enough gold. Any box can be made to deal with situation. In Clear creek a" FULL" 5 gallon bucket of pure blacks each and every day did not hamper my recovery in any way. Show and tell all components as layed out please. John

 

[Jason in Enid]

My dredge is still a just a stock Keene 4" with over/under, so not much else to say about that. My only mod so far was to put a 1.5" bar under the box head so I could get a proper drop slope without putting the bottom half of the sluice into the water, and I run full throttle. I was happy my box never loaded up with cobbles, never seemed overloaded with bs yet was never stripped clear from the flow. I'm just always wondering if there is something I can do better next time.

I know it's said they aren't good for fine gold as manufactured, and my original intent was to be doing a head-head test. I built a custom 3 inch for my son with small expanded over ribbed rubber in the bottom (from the pop-and-son design) and large expanded over nomad up top, but I had a last second problem with the motor/pump so it didn't get to go this trip.

I have seen people strip their Keene box and put in just vortex, or just gold-hog, or all ribbed rubber and small expanded and claim to do very well. The results they show look good but I'm more of "show me" kind of guy. I want to see for myself. The problem is that if I make changes to my keene box and do better or worse next year, was it my changes or was it the location.

 

[Hoser John]

2 way or 3 way---flared header,smash crash or semi flare. Expanded metal wire in header or punchplate,how far down the box does it go. MANY forms of animal and ALL make a huge difference on how to operate. Engine size,pump too. T-80 or righteous GAST(they take more hp away from flow) BUT great air pump. Header flap-thickness and how far down the box too. It all matters. John

 

[Jason in Enid]

2 way or 3 way---flared header,smash crash or semi flare. Expanded metal wire in header or punchplate,how far down the box does it go. MANY forms of animal and ALL make a huge difference on how to operate. Engine size,pump too. T-80 or righteous GAST(they take more hp away from flow) BUT great air pump. Header flap-thickness and how far down the box too. It all matters. John

Ah.... 3-way, flare, punch plate over under-sluice, down about halfway. Honda gx200 (6.5 HP) with P-180 pump and T-80 air. Flap goes about 1/3 down, probably about 1/8" thick.

This is exactly what my box looks like. I go back and forth between using nomad over carpet, or just carpet under the riffle rack.



This is the under-sluice set up.

 

[Hoser John]

OMG no wonder--I'll fire up ol'puter and try to post pics. NEVER ever on a dredge do you have expanded metal(stream sluice only) under a riffle-shine a light on the box-see the light UNDER the riffles-that's where your gold goes out out out and back in the creek. That insipid 3 way steals over HALF your classification and wire removes any ability to control your under current in any way shape or form. You lose your separation sheet between the over under and hence no controls. One of the worst dredges made as classification for the under MUST start the second the flow enters the box and NOT 60% way down the box as velocity,inertia have taken over by then. John

 

[Jason in Enid]

OMG no wonder--I'll fire up ol'puter and try to post pics. NEVER ever on a dredge do you have expanded metal(stream sluice only) under a riffle-shine a light on the box-see the light UNDER the riffles-that's where your gold goes out out out and back in the creek.

I tried your idea. I shined a light under the bottom riffles and there is no light coming through. The riffle bars have a flat section that seal over the small expanded metal. Even with that, I'm not convinced that tiny expanded is really helping anything down there.

That insipid 3 way steals over HALF your classification and wire removes any ability to control your under current in any way shape or form.

OK, I'm completely lost on this statement. How does the large woven wire screen at the head disrupt the underflow?

You lose your separation sheet between the over under and hence no controls.

Are you saying I should remove the punchplate screen over the under-sluice? I'm confused about no control? The 2nd-stage plate slides back - front to control flow to the under sluice, is this what you are talking about?

One of the worst dredges made as classification for the under MUST start the second the flow enters the box and NOT 60% way down the box as velocity,inertia have taken over by then. John

Agian I'm confused. The inertia of the slurry coming out of the flare begins to immediately slow the moment it hits the sluice and spreads out. Are you saying to remove the 1st stage riffles ? I thought the idea of the woven wire was to classify the big stuff away and let the smaller stuff fall through, and then the punch plate let the -1/8 fall to the undersluice. Are you saying it would work better without the woven wire, or to replace the punchplate?

 

[Reed Lukens]

You know how John is Jason, he's an avid Keene lover

 

[Jason in Enid]

You know how John is Jason, he's an avid Keene lover

Hahaha, I could FEEL the love!

 

[Jason in Enid]

OMG no wonder--I'll fire up ol'puter and try to post pics. NEVER ever on a dredge do you have expanded metal(stream sluice only) under a riffle-shine a light on the box-see the light UNDER the riffles-that's where your gold goes out out out and back in the creek. That insipid 3 way steals over HALF your classification and wire removes any ability to control your under current in any way shape or form. You lose your separation sheet between the over under and hence no controls. One of the worst dredges made as classification for the under MUST start the second the flow enters the box and NOT 60% way down the box as velocity,inertia have taken over by then. John

I tried your idea. I shined a light under the bottom riffles and there is no light coming through. The riffle bars have a flat section that seal over the small expanded metal. Even with that, I'm not convinced that tiny expanded is really helping anything down there.

OK, I'm completely lost on this statement. How does the large woven wire screen at the head disrupt the underflow?



Are you saying I should remove the punchplate screen over the under-sluice? I'm confused about no control? The 2nd-stage plate slides back - front to control flow to the under sluice, is this what you are talking about?



Agian I'm confused. The inertia of the slurry coming out of the flare begins to immediately slow the moment it hits the sluice and spreads out. Are you saying to remove the 1st stage riffles ? I thought the idea of the woven wire was to classify the big stuff away and let the smaller stuff fall through, and then the punch plate let the -1/8 fall to the undersluice. Are you saying it would work better without the woven wire, or to replace the punchplate?

John?

I was hoping you could help clarify the post for me and give me some pointers as to how I should be modifying the sluice box.

Advice?

 

[okbasspro]

Jason that's why I went with Proline simple over/under and the gold is so purty. How are you did you get all the silver out of your cons from K River.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have "misplaced" those bits of wire silver somewhere in my garage. If I can find them I will finally get them melted and test them. OR if I can get back to the river, it was flooding all damn year!

 

[okbasspro]

Jason I don't think I've been back since that trip with you. I got a spot close to home a decent spot in Texas and some claims in Arizona.