General metal detector type question(s)

[nopeda]

Hi,

I work for a district water company and we frequently have to turn the water service on and off at a home or business. This is an area where it gets fairly cold in winter so the cut-off valve is buried in the ground and access to it is just down through a small tube with a cap about the size of a half dollar coin. We have a tool that we put down the tube to turn the valve. Often/Usually the caps that should be at ground level get buried under an inch or more of dirt or grass or snow or whatever is in the area and can cover them. We use a metal detector to help find them which sometimes works very well and other times not so well. I'm wondering if there is something we can put on the caps or bury beside the tube to make it a lot easier for the detector to pick it up and maybe distinguish between what we put there and other random junk that happens to be lying around in the area. Or is there a way to get more specific than that like some type of detector that will or can be set to only pick up a particular substance we could put in place that's not likely there is other similar material just lying around the area...something not expensive like gold. I may not have explained what we're trying to work out very well but hopefully you people get the idea and may have some suggestions on how to improve our situation.

Thank you for any help with this!!!

David

 

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[IN DA HOLE]

A couple of Corona bottle caps LOL can never miss them.

 

[ticndig]

I worked for a county public water utility for 20 years .
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[smokeythecat]

You can put a lead disc over it.

 

[ticndig]

the problem with adding something to detect the valve box is the work and material involved. the county I worked for had 85000 customers. I would not want to try and mark all those boxes.

with the proper type of detector you don't detect any bits of trash or non ferrous metals. these utility detectors are far deeper than what we use as relic hunters , 6'' round iron lid is easily heard at 6' or more. manholes 10'. it's about having the right tool for the job.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Aluminum Tape.

 

[SanMan]

I see the problem 100%

Since it's only some of them, and those few can be only an inch or two below ground,........

Can't always find your target because of bits and pieces of,.......
Can't add a big fat washer to each one,.....

I have the answer,.......

A probe.

A long used tool of the treasure hunter.

My advise.

Picture a pole, tubing, 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" dia., 3/32" wall, maybe 4 ft. long,
standing up,.....

The end on the ground, come up about 10" / 12" and weld a piece of angle there.

Like a pogo stick, missing a pedal,.....

For that lower end, have a weld shop / machine shop, turn a cone shape that is a snug
fit to the I.D. of the tube, slides in, and pokes out, about 1 1/2" to 2"......

That cone is an adapter, it has a 1/4" hole 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" deep,
not through hole, comes to a stop, you drill a 3/16" hole through
to fresh air and sunshine.

Through the side, a 1/4"- 28 thread for a set screw.

Fashion up a probe from say,.... drill rod, stainless, what ever is half decent at hand.

Shape it up like a scratch awl, long lean taper, but sturdy enough to take wear and tear.

Stick that probe into the cone and tighten the set screw.

Now you don't have to bend over, knees on the ground,... none of that maddness.
Just place and step on it, move over, try again.

Sometimes you'll be able to do it by just standing there poking here and there.

If you'd like I'll make a sketch and post it here.

Or if you'd like I'll turn one or two out for you.
I have a fully tooled machine and grinding shop.

It doesn't need very weigh much, a bit of a walking stick length.
With a single foot rest.

LOL

 

[CASPER-2]

like smokeythecat says
make a lead cap of some sort - I would make a thin frisbee sized disc out of lead to place on top
would not cost much to make your own
over the years I have helped people find theirs for free cause water co. was gonna ask $75 or more to find
have helped find property markers too - same reason and septic tank caps
good idea to walk off from a tree or from area in yard and write down
one guys yard had large cast iron piece from land fill that went off just as big and his lawn was like
a golf course so I could not just dig it up - luckily I marked off 5 large targets and one I chose
to investigate first was it

 

[ticndig]

All water utilities already own probes , they use them to locate the pipes they are digging up and to help find lids , manholes and such. you can buy probes most anywhere that sells plumbing supplies, even lowes and home depot have them

marking existing public utilities with a metal marker is a waste of time and money because the lids are already made of metal. and you really should not be putting lead in people's yard as it is toxic to children. a water system has thousands of these valve boxes and meter boxes so the only sensible answer is the proper type of metal detector shown above and to raise the box to proper soil grade to speed access in an emergency . that's how the pro's do it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Just find a metal disc that will fit inside the cap. Doesnt really matter what metal its made from, just make it has a little bit of mass (kinda like a thick washer). You wouldnt have to have a program that installs them en-mass, just have the utility crews carry them and install them on any cap they remove but doesnt have it yet. Just find a really good permanent glue to hold it.

 

[ticndig]

the lids he is trying to locate are made of cast iron , putting a washer in them will do nothing. he is using the wrong type of detector . I did this for a living for 20 years and know the situation very well .
the problem is with the wrong detector he is picking up non ferrous trash targets making it hard to find his curb stop box.
with the detector shown above you won't hear any non ferrous and the thing detects crazy deep. curb stop boxes located up to 6' deep. try that with a hobby detector. the problem needs to be corrected as a system wide upgrade so water can be shut off in a reasonable time after crews arrive on the site of an emergency leak. it's not the time to fiddle around while the public watchs you bumble and fumble.

 

[Jason in Enid]

the lids he is trying to locate are made of cast iron .

hmmm, thats not what I got at all from his post. Are you assuming hes talking about standard water meter covers that are the size of a dinner plate and historically cast iron? He said the caps are half-dollar sized.

 

[ticndig]

no , what he is referring to is called a curb stop box. it is a cast iron pipe with a lid that bolts over top of the corporation stop.
the Corporation stop is tapped into the water main. newer systems have the valve at the meter.

it's all iron so no need to add even more metal when what is needed is to discriminate out non ferrous and small items like nails.

the detector I posted does those things. it is the tool used by most public utilities around the country .

 

[nopeda]

no , what he is referring to is called a curb stop box. it is a cast iron pipe with a lid that bolts over top of the corporation stop.
the Corporation stop is tapped into the water main. newer systems have the valve at the meter.

it's all iron so no need to add even more metal when what is needed is to discriminate out non ferrous and small items like nails.

the detector I posted does those things. it is the tool used by most public utilities around the country .

Yes that is what they look like. I'm new to this but am sure the detector we use is what the pros use because the people I work with are not new to it and the detector costs ~$1000. We can change the sensitivity on it. I've talked to other water people in the area and they all use the same method and types of equipment. I was really hoping there was/is something that could be a unique combination of material and detector. Like some unusual type of material that isn't common and likely to be lying around and a detector that would only detect that type of material. Really I was imagining there are such things made specifically for this type of situation, so you can turn the sensitivity way up and wave the detector around and it can tell you what part of the yard to move toward even if it's 50' way, then as you get closer turn the sensitivity down as you get nearer to the target. Maybe it's naive on my part to think there actually is such a system already available, but I don't think there's anything wrong with wishing that there was if there truly is not.

On that same note I was also imagining a depth finding device that can tell people how deep ice is as they move across a lake or river reducing the chance of breaking through thin ice. Again naive I suppose since I couldn't find anything about such a device, but there's certainly nothing wrong with wishing there was such a thing. It could save a lot of lives...

Thanks to all of you for trying to help!

David
Maine, USA

 

[Baldwin]

dear pleas elaborate how many types of detector available and if anyone have detail with their working plz share

 

[Trezurehunter]

When I'm asked to find survey stakes in someones yard, after I locate them I bury a soda or beer can right on top of the stake near the surface. Makes it a slam dunk to find it the next time. I also tie red survey ribbon around the can, and around the stake so if someone pulls the can up, the tape is attached to the stake also.