Gold Coins - Tax / Income Questions

[Limitool]

Somebody posted the below quote on another thread and it got me to thinking or wondering.

Cite Cesarini v. United States, 296 F.Supp. 3 (N.D. Ohio 1969), is a historic case decided by the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Ohio, where the court ruled that treasure trove property is included in gross income for the tax year when it was discovered.

QUESTIONS:

1. If someone found a few hundred gold coins from the 1850-60's under a rock would this go on their taxable yearly income?
2. Would the taxable amount be the face value of the minted coins?
3. Would it be based on the gold worth now?
4. Would it be the collectable amount?

Anybody know?

And anyone who ever did find such a trove would have to be an IDIOT to show the world until much time had passed. Now the folks in California who found the old tins on their property filled with gold coins told the world. And I still wonder how such a fine is "taxed" based on the 4 questions I just asked. I'd like to think face minted value only...?

Anybody know?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[galenrog]

You are going to get several, perhaps several dozen, opinions on this. Nearly all, in whole or in part, will be wrong. In the end, a qualified tax professional is the only person who can answer this question.

 

[worldtalker]

It's NOBODY'S BUSINESS but yours!

GOD Bless

Chris

 

[Limitool]

You are going to get several, perhaps several dozen, opinions on this. Nearly all, in whole or in part, will be wrong. In the end, a qualified tax professional is the only person who can answer this question.

I wouldn't doubt your answer at all. As I stated I truly believe you'd have to be an idiot to even show/claim such a find. But I was just curious how its "value" would be estimated concerning taxable income.

 

[Mackaydon]

I should have such a problem........or in my words: I pray for just one chance to show that money can't buy happiness.
Don...

 

[Argentium]

There likely is some obscure" gobblety gook" in the tax "code " of the Infernal Revenue Disservice - that pertains to valuables found ,
and the tax implications applicable thereto . I'll ask google the question and get back to you .

 

[RotGrub]

Somebody posted the below quote on another thread and it got me to thinking or wondering.



QUESTIONS:

1. If someone found a few hundred gold coins from the 1850-60's under a rock would this go on their taxable yearly income?
2. Would the taxable amount be the face value of the minted coins?
3. Would it be based on the gold worth now?
4. Would it be the collectable amount?

Anybody know?

And anyone who ever did find such a trove would have to be an IDIOT to show the world until much time had passed. Now the folks in California who found the old tins on their property filled with gold coins told the world. And I still wonder how such a fine is "taxed" based on the 4 questions I just asked. I'd like to think face minted value only...?

Anybody know?

In my opinion the answer to your first question would begin with the ownership of the coins... Due to the Antiquities Act where and how the coins were found is important. If they were found on private property you have a chance of retaining ownership. If they were found on public lands you will have a big problem if or when reported. If taxes were to be paid they would be based on the current value of the treasure (not face value). It is also my opinion that finding gold coins is different than finding raw gold when prospecting. Gold found during prospecting is usually only taxed when turned into paper money. Fame or Fortune... You can have the fame.

 

[Turbo21]

It all depends. U.S. Coins. Are always the subject of hot irs debate. They are legal tender. And you can get $20 in gas for a $20 gold coin. But if you sell for the gold value you will be taxed

Check this story out of a business man that Paid his employees in gold coins. Great idea. But looking at hard time

http://m.reviewjournal.com/news/employers-gold-silver-payroll-standard-may-bring-hard-time

 

[lastleg]

PM stackers probably don't know IRS treats sales the same as any collectible, usually a higher
tax rate. It would be funny to file a tax form declaring the sale of a $1 gold coin as a gain of
$1. That would crack them up before seizing all your real assets.

 

[Turbo21]

PM stackers probably don't know IRS treats sales the same as any collectible, usually a higher
tax rate. It would be funny to file a tax form declaring the sale of a $1 gold coin as a gain of
$1. That would crack them up before seizing all your real assets.

That's exactly what has been fought over in court many many times. You are looking at gold coins. But let's say you want to buy a candy bar using pennies. One of those pennies happens to be a 1909 vdb s

The store only has to accept the value as
1 cent even though the value is way higher


Where is the difference with any other coin. All coins regardless of composition have a numismatic value. Where does it stop?

The article I posted above shows exactly this reasoning. Pay someone a $1 a day for work. And pay them every 20 days with a gold coin. It is legal tender and worth $20

The only way to truly stop things like that would be to remove the legal status tender from gold and silver coins

 

[Msbeepbeep]

You can sell real estate or an auto for $1. It is understood you are getting rid of it for less than market value.

For gold coins It depends on how good your lawyer is as to how much tax and the rate you would have to pay on gold coins.

A coin collection I believe is taxable when sold and you can deduct what you paid for it first.
Jmo.

 

[Keppy]

It's NOBODY'S BUSINESS but yours!

GOD Bless

Chris

.. worldtalker ...Is right it is nobody's business ... The only way it could be taxable is ...IF YOU WERE SO DUMB You went and told that you found it.

 

[hvacker]

Question. As gold was supposed to be turned in to our Gov way back when, are they legal to have?
Are they still considered legal tender based on the the demand they be turned in to our Gov?
If our Gov determine they weren't legal tender? Did the Gov change their mind?

 

[Limitool]

.. worldtalker ...Is right it is nobody's business ... The only way it could be taxable is ...IF YOU WERE SO DUMB You went and told that you found it.

I totally agree... DUMB X10.....

If ANYBODY was ever that lucky I was only asking (not what not to do) but whether face value, gold value or collectable value would be used to determine it's value toward Govt. taxes?

 

[Limitool]

I should have such a problem........or in my words: I pray for just one chance to show that money can't buy happiness.
Don...

Amen Don.... Your so totally right!!!!!

 

[Turbo21]

Question. As gold was supposed to be turned in to our Gov way back when, are they legal to have?
Are they still considered legal tender based on the the demand they be turned in to our Gov?
If our Gov determine they weren't legal tender? Did the Gov change their mind?

The act was repealed in 1974


Quote:
The limitation on gold ownership in the U.S. was repealed after President Gerald Ford signed a bill legalizing private ownership of gold coins, bars and certificates by an act of Congress codified in Pub.L. 93-373 [1] [2] which went into effect December 31, 1974. P.L. 93-373 does not repeal the Gold Clause Resolution of 1933, which makes unlawful any contracts which specify payment in a fixed amount of money or a fixed amount of gold. That is, contracts are unenforceable if they use gold monetarily rather than as a commodity of trade.

 

[Frankn]

1-The thing is to sidestep the whole problem. There is no required record keeping for dealers that buy gold.
2- You don't find gold. Then you go to the gold purchaser and sell him the gold you didn't find.
That's how I do it. LOL Frank

 

[BosnMate]

Several years ago I asked a tax man, and he said the coins in the collection I inherited had no tax value until sold. You go to your mine and dig gold. The gold has no tax value until sold. The cost involved with digging and smelting etc. is deductible from the final amount of the sale. But while the gold is hidden under your bed there is no tax value. My cows had calves, each calf had a value, and the value of my heard increased with the birth of each calf. I paid no tax on any of the livestock until it was sold, then the value was established less the cost of raising them and maintaining their mothers. The 1909 s vdb coin mentioned by Turbo21, was declared by the store owner as 1 cent when it was included in his gross sales, but if he squirreled it away and sold it later for collector value, then the coin is taxed once again, at the value he sold it. If I found a cache of gold coin, nobody needs to know about it but me. The fact the found coins are American money, you might have to declare face value as income, but you really open a can of worms when talking about finding lots money, because the greed in people and corporations comes to the surface. Personally, I would shut up and only sell found gold coins as I needed money, and the money from that sale would be taxable. Those coins would make wonderful gifts for birthdays and Christmas to the kids and grand kids, and when they sold them, once again taxes become due on their tax return. Unless there has been a recent change in tax laws, I think what you find has no value until it is sold, then that amount is added to your gross income and is taxable. I'm not an attorney, and if you take my advice and put $3.50 with it, you can purchase a small frozen mocha at Dutch Brothers in Roseburg.

 

[Argentium]

The current precious metal value , or numismatic value (whichever is greater ) would be taxable at point of sale ,
but if you found a cache and decided not to sell it , but somehow thought it wise to report the find , I assume you
would be liable for the tax at the next tax payment schedule. Since a find of this nature would not meet the definition
of earned income (or even technically a gift ), I think it would be proper not to burden the Govt. with a report as such !
( They seem pretty overwhelmed as it is )

 

[Msbeepbeep]

It used to be you would not be taxed on the clad coins you found till you spent them, but I've read on here somewhere that you now are suppose to declare the clad the year it was found...but if you "collect" the clad in a collection of your "found clad" does that still apply? It is a "collection" like gold, silver, and foreign coins, or anything else that is collectible and not taxable till sold.
I am assuming this taxable found coin thing does not apply to the corroded zincs, since the issuer, banks, and stores do not consider them legal tender as found, and will not accept or exchange them for you.

I say we should get to write off all of our finds as part of our hard work cleaning up and removing trash from the environment. All these people littering metal trash everywhere! What the heck! Do they know how heavy that gold trash is! We need hazard pay!

As with anything Limitool, the gold coins would be taxed at what ever rate they thought could get away with.