Gold dregging .. seems the cause is long lost or is it ?

[H-2 CHARLIE]

We had quite a bit of Buzz about the dredging cases and all that going on just seems to fall out ever since Trump won in office so much quietness on this dredging did everybody just plain and simple give it up ?

 

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[N-Lionberger]

If they succeed to secede then we can have the State of Jefferson right? Would get dredging back and be able to keep using the 50 star flag.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

No law is going to break California in half or thirds . At least in my lifetime .
Well has the attorneys from the mining industry actually tried to get ahold of trump and write him a letter man I bet it would probably work to get the ball rolling up top .

 

[Goldwasher]

Just like the XX

There will be no California secession.

The dredging situation in Ca. is stalled at the SWRCB

They were supposed to get back to us and set the next workshops this summer. The website now says spring 2018

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Reminder we do not have grammar police here.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Terry Soloman]

There will never be legal dredging in California, ever again. The small miner's rights organizations sucking money out of weekenders, small operations, manufacturers, and wannabee's all know it.

Too harsh for you? Life's tough. Stop whining about the laws and be a sly pirate.

 

[winners58]

The dredging situation in Ca. is stalled at the SWRCB

They were supposed to get back to us and set the next workshops this summer. The website now says spring 2018

wanna hear my theory why they are stalling?
it doesn't fit into their schedule, there is legal confusion as to whether suction dredging falls under CWA 402 or 404
challenged in 2009 the miners in Oregon won, sort of, they can only apply one or the other
unless they can use some extraordinary wording to separate what is covered.
well California has been quietly removing suction dredging from 404 dredged and fill permitting and will be submitting to the APA soon.

its listed as activities excluded on page 12 of the draft rules; https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/cwa401/wrapp.shtml
so if they were just going to issue a letter permit for suction dredging they would have, so my thinking is you will be getting an NPDES
like Oregon or Idaho it will only cover a few areas and if the timeline of from draft in the spring 2018 then the APA process
there should be a SWRCB permit in 2019

Tom Kitchar 2010 presentation "how 402 does not apply"
http://www.waldominingdistrict.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/toms-presentation.pdf

 

[Bejay]

Oregon's Threatened and Endangered Species Regulatory Framework Early On Opening Position

"It is the State of Oregon's policy "to prevent the serious depletion of any indigenous species" (ORS 496.012), and in 1987 the Oregon Legislature enacted the Oregon Endangered Species Act (ESA). The Oregon administrative rules for threatened and endangered species (OAR 635-100-0100 to 0130) are intended to help implement these policies. In accordance with these rules, species can be classified as "threatened" (any native species likely to become endangered within the foreseeable future throughout any significant part of its range within the state) or "endangered" (any native species determined to be in danger of extinction).
The rules also identify general steps that may be taken to recover these species. the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW) maintains a list of threatened and endangered species. The state ESA requires state agencies to develop programs for the management and protection of endangered species on state lands. For threatened species, state agencies are required to comply with survival guidelines adopted by the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission.*ODFW coordinates with other state and federal agencies, tribes, and conservation groups on efforts to survey, manage and protect threatened, endangered and sensitive species. Copies of the Oregon Endangered Species Act and administrative rules, the Sensitive Species rule, and updated lists of the threatened and endangered or sensitive species are available through the*ODFW*or may be requested from ODFW by writing to:
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife."
3406 Cherry Avenue NE
Salem, OR 97303


U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's Threatened and Endangered Species Programs
Under federal law the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration share responsibility for implementing the federal Endangered Species Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-205, 16 U.S.C. 1531), as amended. In general, USFWS has oversight for land and freshwater species and NOAA for marine and anadromous species.
Protecting endangered and threatened species and restoring them to a secure status in the wild is the primary objective of the endangered species program of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Responsibilities of the endangered species program include:
Listing, reclassifying, and delisting species under the Endangered Species Act
Designating critical habitat for listed species
Consulting with other Federal agencies and providing biological opinions on Federal activities that may affect listed species
Working with landowners on restoration activities that support the recovery of federally-listed threatened and endangered species on private lands
Developing recovery plans and overseeing recovery activities for listed species
Providing grants for critical research needs and to assist with endangered species conservation efforts
Current Threatened and Endangered Species Lists

State List
Federal List

 

[Bejay]

Oregon's Original Supportive Position

2015 ORS 274.025¹
Jurisdiction over submersible and submerged lands generally
Text
News
Annotations
Related Statutes

"(1) The title to the submersible and submerged lands of all navigable streams and lakes in this state now existing or which may have been in existence in 1859 when the state was admitted to the Union, or at any time since admission, and which has not become vested in any person, is vested in the State of Oregon. The State of Oregon is the owner of the submersible and submerged lands of such streams and lakes, and may use and dispose of the same as provided by law.
(2)
No person shall acquire any right, title or interest in or to the submersible and submerged lands of any such navigable lakes, or any part thereof, by reliction or otherwise, or by reason of the lowering or drainage of the waters of such lakes, except as provided by statute. [Formerly 274.420)."

==========================================================

The jurisdictional authority is DSL (Division of State Lands). DSL was the permit tee for suction dredge permits prior to the "Anti Dredging" legislative actions,

 

[winners58]

There is a big long laundry list of things the environmentalist have been steadily changing
state vs. fed ESA listings
removing/changing 303d listings / removing TMDL's for in-stream mining
denying 401 certification for USACE nationwide permitting.
applying surface mining laws to small operations.
challenging vested water rights.
and a host of other things that that would affect any mining in the future.

the only real thing I can see that will help is a complete change in government for Oregon and California.
So get out and VOTE them OUT...

the other option is a well placed disturbance to a fault line and drop southern California into the pacific ocean.

 

[Bejay]

Many years ago I fought the State and the Enviro groups on a different issue. I founded and presided over a non-profit group that gained public support; as we successfully challenged the "anti crowds"
Successful meant being invited to give informative public presentations via a number of venues....(colleges, radio/TV) etc . To do so meant creating "The Good Ship Lollipop" that "saved" something.
My current observation of creating that "Good Ship Lollipop" is adapting the "removal of lead and mercury" from the streams and rivers. Without getting into great detail I think many can understand the concept. The old saying: "fight fire with fire" works.

THEN AND ONLY THEN MIGHT THE POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE IN OREGON CHANGE AND THE "VOTE THEM OUT MIGHT OCCUR": As the major metro areas in Oregon control all the vote. Rural Oregon has no say in what happens.....rural always tries to vote them out.....unsuccessfully.

If Oregon's public wants clean water and fisheries then get on the band wagon and show them how dredging is: "That Good Ship Lollipop" . A task worthy of consideration/action

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

 

[Bejay]

Adronomous fisheries are a prime target for fisherman....and as seen; the lead is most common on river/streams with "FISH".

The Oregon dredge ban applied to adronomous fishery drainages.

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While the video is great it lacks some presentation qualities that must occur: (as the presentation shows understandable bias)

Rhetoric is the practice of organizing, writing, and delivering speeches. If you study speeches from years past you will find tried and true methods of good delivery. These methods will make you:
Appear more trustworthy
Make it easier for people to remember what you said.
Making a good speech is really difficult. That is why there is a whole study devoted to it. There are colleges that offer this as a major. There are professors who have their PhD in it. It’s an art and a science.

 

[Goldfinger450]

The State of Oregon should be Paying people to dredge to remove trash/lead and other contaminants, Instead they restrict, then charge you for a permit that pays THEM to come harass,You some More in your hobby. I removed at least 15lbs of lead from Graves creek alone, it crosses under I-5 above Grants pass, a lot of Gold still in the area.

 

[Goldfinger450]

The Commercial Dredging up and down All Coastal waters is unbelievable, I worked on a dredging Ship-the Eland out of Oregon, we dredged the Mouth of the Mighty Columbia,, Scary stuff, when the sea anchors rip the side of the hull out in a storm, anyway, the price that is charged to dredge out bays and harbors/channels is astronomical, California does a lot of dredging so it is not forbidden to dredge like that, why should a 4-6" dredge be a problem? The Problems are Made up BullSquirt.

 

[mendoAu]

...algae not to bad in the creek this year and won't take too long to pressure wash it and tarp it for next year....oh, wait>>>there's a moritorium?

 

[mikep691]

The way I see it, you have to beat them at their own game. Since California was kind enough to list the components of what a suction dredge is, then operating a device without all of those components, technically is not operating a dredge.
I'll cleaning the environment with a gravity fed mercury and lead removal system.

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