Gold Washington Dollar cache: clue inquiry

[Copperhead]

goldenrule farm,

Ok, I'm ready to let this go too...but since you seem to have more info of this then what I have read here, can you clear up a few things?

What were, who wrote, these letters in the Hartford Courant in 1951?

Did anyone actually find (within the last 50 years) any gold coins in this area?

If so, do you know what kind they were?

If not, thank you..this story will no longer occupy any space in my limited mind.

 

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[goldenrulefarm]

What is in a name: I had live at a home for boys, 1956 - 1961, name
Golden Rule Farm, in Northfield, New Hampshire, where we had cows. I live in Connecticut since around 1964 when I got interested in coin collecting and treasure hunting. You may want to find out if France minted the coins in 1799. The story started in 1951, when a women wrote letters to the hartford Courant, was printed newspapers back then during the Rev. War.,
and still printing newspapers. As stated before, the authors did not mention this story because they know the story is false. There is no one more them me who wish the story was true. I am looking for true stories about
Connecticut. I live in Bridgeport and looking for buddies, and happy to advice people. I am 64 years old. Sent pictures for payment.

 

[tommyl]

To Goldenrulefarm and other skeptics:

Wow! What negativity and skepticism. Where is your sense of intrigue and determination? I know the world is flat. It must be, right? I can't guarantee you that the Washington Gold dollar story is real or not at this point. I can't show you a coin. I can't speak with Lemuel Bates either. I live in CT and am intrigued by this story. I also love the story of the Pirate gold hidden in East Granby in the same vicinity. Ever heard of that one? Probably not and it may not be true. But maybe it is. I just know this....there is always some truth to legends, be it turned around 180 degrees or so, but something did happen there. Probably a lot of things. The family of Bates would be the last people to find out believe me. As someone said, maybe we find a box of Higby coppers in our travels. Think they are worth anything Mr coin collector?

Look, research is hard work. People spend years looking and maybe find one clue. Then another. Maybe they don't search at all because it's not put right in their lap. I don't care because I know a couple of other things. East Granby is old...1700's That means lots of stuff to be found. Also, for all you folks there are at least 10 articles that have been in the
Hartford Courant newspaper on this topic over the past 60 years. Maybe more beyond. Can't rely on their archive system. Also, try the Enfield library near Granby. You may find some info there, because there is. By the wayFannie Warfield Hayes who wrotew the 1951 article, must be very old now or maybe dead. But I have a feeling her passion over this for a very hidden reason, is what drove her. Oh yes, truth be it, I was 12 years old when i read a letter in East Granby, handwritten and old, from a soldier at Newgate prison, right there in east granby and it said something about a revolutionary payroll, stolen. Men overcome and killed, several wounded and the money never found. It also said he wasn't getting paif for awhile. I remembered this all these years and I am 58 years old.

One more thing. During my research on this topic, I have uncovered at least three other leads on other things that are pretty exciting to me IN THIS SAME GENERAL AREA!

So before you rain on someone else's parade, please think about the big picture.
Tom L.

 

[Copperhead]

Hey Tom, Thanks for the info about the letters and the good points about researching. I wish I were closer to the area and had more time to take advantage of the local sources. It's frustrating being so close yet so far. Anyway, don't listen to what anyone has to say, me included. I'm sure from your point of view the picture looks different. Like I said in my previous post, it's occupying space in my mind and maybe I'm just looking reasons not to let it. Regardless, good luck and keep us updated. For now, I'll return to my previous position when I first read about this...on the fence.

 

[starsplitter]

Greetings:

TommyL, I can see your point - the allure legendary treasure stories and such. However, never take secondary information as gospel, or anything approaching fact. As for newspaper accounts: I recently did quite a bit of research on Braddock's Gold - the bulk of it from primary resources. Turns out that the "legend" was born out of a newspaperman's fascination and was 90% yarn. A yarn that was respun with each subsequent retelling. Guess a treasure story is always a good fall back on a poor news day.

Starsplitter

 

[goldenrulefarm]

Tom L.

For all people who believe the 13 wagons loads of gold coins rob at Bates Tavern, during the Rev. war . I highly recommend that you read The Hartford Courant newspaper, the years of 1799 - 1800 for info. So far, I have not received pictures of the coins, which I am paying $100.00 for. My biggest concern now is what metal detector to buy and looking for people in and around Bridgeport for coin shooting. I am older then Tom L.

Golden Rule Farm

[email protected]

 

[TreasureTales]

Personally, I don't want to rain on your parade. I'll add a little sunshine to it, if you don't mind. Here is what Thomas P. Terry wrote about the gold coins in his treasure leads collection - United States Treasure Atlas, Volume 3 (page 223).


"48A. During the Revolutionary War, $2 1/2 million in gold coins was on loan from France to the
colonies to support the cause against the British. After arriving at Boston, the treasure was loaded
on wagons for the trip to Philadelphia.

The party stopped overnight at the tavern of Captain Lemuel Bates in East Granby Center. During
the night, a band of Tory renegades overpowered the guards and drove the wagons into the wooded
hills about 1 mile from the tavern where the hoard was buried. In their effort to escape the scene,
all were killed with the exception of one man, Henry Wooster, but he refused to tell where the gold
treasure was hidden. Wooster was jailed, but escaped and fled to England.

Searchers found the wagons and horses in the woods, but the plank boxes containing the gold coins
were never found."


"48B. After the War, Henry Wooster wrote his mother and included maps to the gold cache. She
secretly sent 5 or 6 men to recover the hoard, but all were killed by Indians."


"48C. In the 18th century, Newgate Prison was built over an abandoned copper mine that had a
honeycomb of caverns extending in all dirctions. It has been suggested that the gold treasure was
hidden in the abandoned mine tunnels."


"48D. In 1951, a researcher claimed that the hoard of gold was buried in a bright and babbling
brook. If this is the case, it is surmised that the bank has fallen in since the early days and
covered the site."


As I stated from the beginning, if any coins have been found in the stream, that is the place to start the search. And remember that creeks change their channels frequently. Get an old map and go from there. Also remember that E. Granby was once part of another city and county.

Some things to ponder: How did Mrs. Wooster know the men she sent to recover the gold had been killed by Indians? Did her son really return to England, and stay there?

 

[goldenrulefarm]

I am happy that you don't want to rain on my parade. In the sixty, I interview Willaim Bates who since Lemuel Bates live the tavern. He told me that the treasure was bury near a brook, since it was easy digging. William is a story teller. Years later, I had interview his son in law, who was living in the tavern. He told me that William really didn't believe the story and that the family didn't hear about the story until they read the letters that a lady sent to The Hartford Courant in 1951. During the Rev. war, The Hartford Courant never wrote about this story, and Hartford is close to East Granby. Henry Wooster had rob a house with his friends, he went to England and came back to visit his mother. I am sure that many treasure hunters had search for the coins. There are many stories about Captain Kidd bury treasure in this state, but, not have been founded. I have no takers to receive $100.00 for pictures of these coins. No coins - No treasure.
Golden Rule Farm.

 

[tommyl]

My belief is that the family knew nothing.I feel bates was in on the heist. He was a Captain in the army for the cause and Torey sympathizers killed the guards. Where was he and why didn't he help find the gold, killers and all. He had to know all the townspeople who at that time totaled less than 150. By the way the year is supposedly 1779 not 1799, a twenty year differance. Bates died at age 91 in 1820. He was 50 years old when the robbery occurred. Here is a passage from a book, "Out of the bitter church controversy referred to there grew a topographical map of ancient Simsbury. This map shows that about 1780 there were living in the parish twenty-eight families, -- twenty-three east and five west of the mountain."

Also, Washington's image is supposedly on the coins. No evidence they were dollar coins. Could have been larger than that. Bates Inn was on the north side of a north and south road. Two existing main roads at the time N/S and E/W, but they would have had to go.5 mile N or S before going E or west. Due west are fields, mountains. Due East are fields, swamp. more info to come

 

[BuckleBoy]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, and I think I have heard enough from both sides now to interject my hunch here.

After hearing about the primary documents concerning the missing payroll (by the way, SOMEONE needs to track these documents down!), I think that the story could very well have been greatly exaggerated. Now, here's what that means.

1. Goldenrule--I would believe you are right to think that a heist of the reported amount of gold should appear somewhere in a newspaper or enough reputable primary documents to vouch for its truth in some part. If this story is greatly exaggerated (and we've only heard about a "payroll" from a primary document so far on this post!), then there was a smaller cache stolen--certainly not the amount of vast amount of gold reported in the paper 150 years later. This story from a primary document may have laid the basis for the exaggerated story about wagonloads of gold. And in that case, there is no telling whether that payroll was ever recovered by the theives or not.

2. Goldenrule--I agree with you that whomever pursues this tale should want to see these found coins first. I would look through the newspaper articles and find the name and info on whoever found the last one of these and politely ask to see the coin or a photo of it. That would settle some questions quickly, and the last one was supposedly recovered only 20 years ago or so. Get on it, folks! The thing that is perplexing about all of this, Goldenrule, is that the first coin was supposedly found in the stream the 40's--before the newspaper article about the treasure was printed, and before the Bates' even knew about such a story . So we can't write this story off as entirely fabrication at this point! This last fact does allow us at least the possibility that the story has some truth to it.

3. I, personally, am perplexed about the continued reference to "Washington Dollars" in the info on this post. Now, of course, we have Washington Dollars minted our country, but never has there ever been a gold "Washington Dollar." After doing some poking around...if these were indeed French coins (regardless of how many of them there originally were--and I suspect a greatly smaller number than what the account says), it is possible that the first person (in the 40's) to find one of the said coins looked at the date of it (late 18th century) and saw the portrait on the front and ASSUMED that the portrait was of Washington himself. After all, as you'll see in the photo there is nothing on the coin that identifies it as specifically French. The inscriptions consist entirely of abbreviations in Latin:

But it is still troubling that something would be identified as a "dollar" if it was gold. I would think the accounts of found coins would be much more likely to say something about these coins being gold if indeed they were even gold in the first place. Hence, some other contemporaneous coins--close in size to the U.S. silver dollar and likewise made of silver: First, the French ecu:

Second, the 8 reales:

All of these international currencies could have been used for payroll purposes, and any of them could have been likewise mistaken by a novice.

4. Tommy--I agree with you that the pursuit of this, even if it turns up dead ends, could put you onto some other great sites and leads. So I don't feel that it is a waste of time. (There might be a payroll still stashed somewhere rather than wagon loads of gold). But I would think that talking to the people who found the coins in the creek is first priority. One could speculate about this treasure endlessly, but actually laying eyes on said coins would greatly help this tale's reliability.


Regards,

Buckleboy

 

[goldenrulefarm]

I find it odd that this year the mint is making washington dollars. The tavern was the home of Captain Bates and his family at least up to 1965 when I interview Willaim Bates.
I read Coin World that have rare coins for sale in auctions. The 15 1804 dollars are worth more then a million dollars each. There are suppose to be around 5 of these so call coins. How much do yu think these coins are worth. This story is in Lost Treasure magazine every year going back to 1964 or before, with the author was Howard Duffy. Remember him. I agree that researching one story could find leads to other true stories. So, Tom L. good luck. Have you see any one in a picture holding one or more of these coins with a big smile on their face? Not me. I would think there would had been pictures in newspapers and magazines other then treasure magazines. I still offering $100.00 for pictures of these coins. What can I tell you? Golden Rule Farm. [email protected]

 

[tommyl]

Great feedback from both Buckleboy and Goldenrulefarm. You guys are definately pros. I am excited that there may be other possibilities such as a small payroll, or the coins being of a differant "look". Good info.

I need to spend a couple of solid days in the libraries near that area. I need to find out who found the coins supposedly. That is a key I also believe, but you know what, I think I will also swing the metal in afew places I have hunches on over there.
Tom

 

[TreasureTales]

Oh, and I'm what? Chopped liver? Gee, thanks so much.

 

[tommyl]

Sorry Treasure tale and all others. No slight intended. Lots of good feedback and i was just replying to the last couple. But after reading all of the replys over again, I can only say the pros and cons from all are important. All comments have value to me.It sometimes is the extra set of eyes that makes the differance.

 

[goldenrulefarm]

I been reading Lost Treasure magazine since 1964. I never read that any of these treasures been found. There are so many stories about Captain Kidd bury treasures in many places in Connecticut, but, none of his treasures has been found. Do you want to guess how many people are looking for his treasures? I can't count that high. As of the Rev. War story. Most of us agree that most of the stories in treasure magazines are false. What date do you want to start with. 1779, when the coins were suppose to be rob. If true, how many people look for it. One had find it, then and now. Do you want to start with 1951, when the woman wrote letters to the Hartford Courant. How many people since then, look for it? Do you want to start with 1964, when I first read the story in Lost Treasure magazine. How many people read the story every year and been looking for it? As far as five coins being found, how come no treasure hunter has find these coins? I got no reply to my $100.00 offer for pictures of just one coin. Every day, Lost Treasure Magazine publish a story on the internet. How many do you believe are true. For people who believe the Rev War story, go for it. Even tho The Hartford Courant never wrote about it back then. I called this story the Lost Duthman Mine of the East. There are so many people looking for this mine, thinking that God want them to find it. It is the same thing with this story.
Golden Rule Farm. [email protected]

 

[FlamingoFergie]

Just have to throw in my 2 cents. I didn't read every word from this thread but you did say you were using old maps. How old? River/creek beds change greatly over the decades. And old maps are not the most reliable depended greatly on the skills of the person making the map.

So, does it really matter if the treasure story is real? Don't we all hope to hit 'the big one'? Isn't that why we're out there? I would question any one who said they never had the thought of coming across a great cache. Keep looking. Who knows what you will find!! And if you never find it, at least you know that you tried (and I'll take that over the pontificating of the impossibility of success any day)

 

[TreasureTales]

Yep, I agree with FF about trying to find the treasure, even if it doesn't exist. You will always kick yourself if you don't give it a try. I spent over 20 years looking for a specific treasure based on a legend and some old primary materials, never did find it (if I had I wouldn't be sitting here at home). But I have the memories of the adventures that arose from my search. And I found a few things worth keeping in the process of looking for the treasure legend. It's all good. GO FOR IT!

 

[Potter Poker]

I agree with you "Treasure Tales", I am faced with the same kind of situation up here in Potter County, Pa. Three major "treasure tales"...people been lookin' for them for decades. Doesn't discourage me in the least. I plan on being out in the forests and hills all this summer along with some other guys. At the very least we will find someting worth hanging onto, get some good pics of the areas, and contribute to the overall research that has already been done. Hope to dispell some of the misconceptions about the treasures, add some additional insights, and have a lot of fun doin' it. Along the way might just find some heretofore undiscovered sites to do some MD'ing, get some new leads and accumulate a lot of experience. What elso would a treasure hunter want outside of the "Big Strike".

 

[jeff of pa]

No that's what it's about.

Positive Thinking !

& alot of Fun.

 

[jrf30]

I've read this thread, but didn't respond because it is similar to too many just like it. A story is read about, it "must" be true, and the search begins. Detractors exist, and the battle goes on.

But, in this one, there is one thing that I thin k could make or break the answer.

<<From what i have read, in 1944 a hiker found one in a stream. Called it a Washington dollar. In 1958 three more were supposedly found near a brook and they were supposedly identified as Washington dollars. In 1987 one more was found by a woman and it was identified as a Washington dollar. it also was near a branch of a stream. These accounts were all found in a book written by WC Jameson>>

ALL in ONE book. Okay, instead of researching the story from 200 years ago, research the story that is RECENT. FIND the people that found these coins. Do they EXIST?

it is easier to determine if THES E people exist than if coins 200 plus years old exist! SO, CHANGE your research, and look for these people.

See if you can find an article in the appear about a woman in 1987 finding a coin. That wouldn't be too hard to do. Then go back to 1958 and also 1944. If you can find even ONE of these stories, with (as someone already said) a photo of a person holding a coin and smiling, then you have something. If your research shows up NOTHING o ANY of them, then a quesion needs to be asked. How could WC Jameson find out about ALL THREE if you can find out bout NONE? And the answer would be that he COULD NOT. He made it up.

Yes, change your research. IF this is true, there MUST e a way that Mr Jameson found out about the three finds. And that research could be duplicated.

Personally, I think this story is NOT true. For all the reasons that were given above. I look at both sides of the argument, and see on one side a preponderance of facts that say the coins did not exist, the tavern owner's family say it never happened, the papers never covered it at ALL, the letter supposedly written confessing to it was shown to write about some OTHER robbery (a BIG red flag to this one being true!), and lots more. ON the other side, I see hope and faith, but nothing factual. And insults hurled at the ones discussing the facts that contradict the story ("you think the earth is flat?"). But, you know what? It DOESN"T MATTER what I think, or others think. What matters is research. FIND THOSE PEOPLE. Find ONE of them, and you can be extremely convinced that this story has SOME truth to it. Find NONE Of them, and Mr Jameson probably found none either, and made up dates and numbers to go with his "tale".

Start there, and let us all know what you find. And, even though I think this one probably doesn't exist, I'll still cheer you on in your research and rejoice with you if you find one of those people. :-)

John (Oh, and I've written over 70 stories for W&E T and LT ... plus Treasure Facts and a few others no longer in business. But, stories mostly on "How To" instead of on specific lost caches. Even as a writer, I believe a majority of the cache stories are rehashes of past false stories. IF they were all true, there would be more coins lost and buried than were even minted!)