GTI 2500 and Sunray probe - New Evaluation

[Monty]

I had a long phone conversation last night with the good folks at Sunray regarding the trouble I was having with my Sunray pin pointer/probe. Both of us were disappointed in the results I was having and my first evaluation. I was given some operating tips that I had not known about and I agreed to give it another chance , test it a few more weeks and see if I had better results. That seems fair to me so I agreed.
I tried it out for a couple of hours yesterday before a cold front came roaring in and had much better results. I will post in detail over the next few days and weeks and see if I get different results. I am kinda' rushed for time right now but will post more details this afternoon. Monty

 

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[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Re: GTI 2500 an Sunray probe - New Evaluation

Monty,

thanks for the info. Keep us posted.

Interested in what the "special operating tips" are, when you get the time.

have a good un..........

 

[Monty]

OK, here we go. In order to reevaluate the GTI-1 there are several basic bits of information I feel I must cover. The GTI-1 will operate on any and all of the Garrett GTI series of detectors, not just the 2500. Some call it a probe and some call it a pinpointer while it is actually neither. Basically, what it is is a mini-coil that can be used as a pinpointer or a probe depending on the users requirement. It is however not an imaging coil. Being a miniature coil, it can perform any of the operations of the regular 9 1/2" coil except the imaging feature. That being said, you have to change your mindset when using it. You cannot looking at it as a pinpointer or a probe, rather as another coil, miniaturized and capable of getting into small spaces such as the hole where the plug has been cut when recovering a target. You have to remember that it can be utilized and operated on any one of the many functions just as a normal coil. Clear as mud? OK, then here is where I was erring in trying to use it with my GTI 2500.
Assume the GTI-1 is installed and you are searching an area in any one of the discrimination modes on your GTI series detector. You find a target that is indicated as a coin at 4" and you pinpoint it with your normal 9 1/2" coil. Be sure and make a mental note of the size and depth of the target. Now you want to precisely pinpoint the target with the GTI-1. First of course you switch the GTI-1 to the on position with the toggle switch. Then you place the tip of the GTI-1 coil near the spot you have pinpointed with your detector. In order to precisely locate the target, you need to press and hold the pinpoint button on your detector while running the mini-coil over the spot pinpointed by your detector. (This is what I was not doing correctly). If you do not press and hold the pinpoint button on your detector you will be operating the mini-coil in the discriminate mode. It is not designed to operate in the discriminate mode and you will not be able to attain the depth needed to pinpoint the target! This is why I was getting only 2 or 3" in depth as reported in my original evaluation. This was the big flaw that was causing me to get such poor results and I want to reiterate, it was a matter of operator error, not the Sunray product!
Keeping in mind the information I just divulged, I took my GTI 2500 with the GTI-1 and my standard 9 1/2" coil out for a new test spin. I went to a grassy center median dividing a boulevard in one of the older parts of town. My first target was an indicated size B coin at 4" as indicated by the imaging feature on my GTI 2500. The icon scale was indicating a penny at approximately 5". After pinpointing with my detector, I switched on the GTI-1, pressed and held the pinpoint button on my detector, and slowly ran the mini-coil over the target area. Just as with my larger coil on pinpoint mode, I got a tone that became louder and peaked right over the target, precisely identifying where to dig. Using my Gator tool I dug a very small plug in the small area indicated and soon found a zinc penny at precisely 4". This indicated to me that the mini-coil used properly was dead on accurate at a depth of 4". Covering an area of about 20 feet long and approximately 8' wide I continued to recover coins at various depths from as little as one inch to a maximum depth of seven inches. Each time the GTI-1 was dead on accurate! I know it was able to identify a target to at least seven inches, but I did not locate any targets deeper than that so I don't know precisely how deep the signal from the GTI-1 would penetrate.
I tested the GTI-1 in another manner this trip just out of curiosity. I found an area about 2' square that had several coins right at the surface just barely covered by grass or leaves, not into the ground at all. I used the mini-coil in the discriminate mode rather than pinpoint to locate several of these coins. In each instance it found the barely covered coin and rang out loud and clear with the Garrett unique bell tone signal. I was able to hold the mini-coil up out of the grass about an inch rather than having to scrub it in the grass and leaves as would be necessary with my Automax II probe. This should prevent wear and tear on the GTI-1 and you don't have to nearly touch the coin or target to locate it when on the surface.
On the way home I went by a playground in a small park and decided to stop and test the GTI-1 "in the chips". I found several dimes beneath a playground toy using the GTI-1 to finely pinpoint the location. As most of you know it is easy to dig up your target in the chips and not realize it. I did this on a couple of pennies and lost the target in the hole that indicated to me I had already dug it up and it was somewhere shallow outside the hole. From my previous experience at locating coins on the surface, I used the GTI-1 in the discriminate mode and easily found them at or near the surface. This may not be the proper way to do it but it worked well for me, a tip you might make a note of.
The only problems I ran into was not necessarily the fault of the GTI-1. Since I am partially disabled with a back injury, it is hard for me to hold the pinpoint button in with one hand and use the other hand to operate the mini-coil. I use a back strap with a bungee attached to take some of the weight off the detector and the bungee kept pulling the detector back toward me where it was difficult to operate the pinpoint button. I will experiment on where to attach my weight assist strap so it doesn't interfere with the operation of my detector and GTI-1. Also, twice I got an indication of a target identified as an "A" size, or smaller than a coin. One was a bobby pin and the other was a very tiny piece of copper that looked like part of a bullet jacket. My detector coil picked it up easily but I could not locate it with the GTI-1 mini-coil. I found both targets with my Automax II probe, but it must be noted that the tip of the probe had to touch the objects before it would vibrate. This is noteworthy only in that in the past I have recovered a couple of very small silver rings that fell into the "A" category. Perhaps I could have found the two tiny junk targets with the GTI-1 if I had tried putting my detector in the all metal mode? I will talk to Sunray about that and see what they can tell me.
Well, that about sums up the first phase of my new evaluation. One trip out does not make a definitive conclusion, but it must be said that by following Sunray's directions in the proper use, the results were much better! So much so that I think you can discount my first evaluation. At this point I would have to rate the GTI-1 very satisfactory! Testing to continue...............Monty

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Monty,

thank you very much for the info.

Think you know I'm looking at the sunray.

Keep us posted.

have a good un.............

 

[hollowpointred]

yeah mont, thanks for the nice update. it has been a really interesting read.ill be curious to see what you think after a few more times out with it.

 

[Monty]

Unable to get out and test as there is 4" of sleet and snow on the ground right now. Stay tuned. Monty

 

[Monty]

I've got out twice since the bad weather cleared out. New record of 92 was reached Tuesday!
I got a set of instructions for my GTI-1 probe that I didn't have originally and the information I was missing was in the literature. For some reason I only had the first page.
The results were pretty much as originally reported in the reevlutation. I found many targets with no problem using the pin point feature on my detector. The ground was slightly damp on all outings and it seemed to help in getting depth. It will pick up any and all targets up to 4". Deeper targets, it will usually find but not the really small items. My deepest target has been 7" but I haven't tried to pinpoint anything deeper since. It works extremely well in the "chips" and loose sand around playground equipment. This time I was able to retrieve a tiny costume jewelry earring that was identified on my GTI 2500 as being smaller than a coin. It was at approximately 2". I have been meaning to try it in the all metal mode instead of the pinpoint mode, but keep forgetting. It seems to me that it should work just as well since the pinpoint mode is actually an all metal mode. The only difference is that the coil doesn't have to be moving to pick up a signal in the all metal mode. Perhaps I can give it a try if I get out a bit this afternoon?
Monty

 

[Monty]

I went to a "hunted out" park just to do some more testing of the Sunray GTI-1 probe. In about an hour I picked up several coins, all clad along the edge of the jogging trail without too much effort. The coins ran from right on the surface to about 4". I had no trouble precisely pinpointing where to dig with the GTI-1. The problem I am having....if you can call it a problem is that the GTI 2500 pinpoints so precisely that I don't need the probe very often to locate a shallow target! Invariably when I locate a target with the detector, the target is precisely where it tells me it is and the depth is never over half an inch off, usually right on. Where the GTI-1 probe/coil really pays off is when the target is 6" or deeper. What I have found that is most convenient for me on deep targets is to simply drop the probe into the hole and punch the all metal button. That way I don't have to use both hands to operate the probe and it doesn't have to be moving to locate the target. If you do that with the detector in the discrimination mode you will lose most of your depth, so that is a no no. Be sure you are holding the pinpoint button in or have put the detector in the all metal mode. Putting the detector in the all metal mode isn't something recommended by Sunray, but I found it works well for me and there doesn't seem to be any loss of depth. Perhaps that's something Ralph at Sunray might want to explore and see what results he gets?
I am still having trouble finding the target on the edge of the plug, or picking up a stronger target very near the one I am digging and getting fooled into thinking it is my original target. Since no one else seems to be having that problem, I feel I must need more practice or I am not doing something right? I am going to phone Ralph for some suggestions and see if I can work that out.
So, on reevaluating the GTI-1, would I recommend buying it? Yes, especially if you are not very good at pinpointing with your detector or if you are losing deep targets. If you are going to spend the $$$ to buy a top of the line detector like the GTI2500, you might as well go all out and get any aid that is available. I also recommend getting an arm brace or one of the other aids to working with a heavy detector. The GTI 2500 is a heavy but well balanced detector to begin with and with the GTI-1 attached it is much easier to operate with some type of aid. Monty

 

[hollowpointred]

how heavy is the GTI 1 monty? just curious to see how much added weight we are talking about. you are right, the GTI 2500 is plenty heavy already.and to get off topic a bit..............did you just say that the temp in your area was 92!! its friggin freezing here!!

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Monty,

after I dig a plug and cannot locate the target with my
handheld, in either the plug or hole, I stand up and
check both the plug and the hole, (with my 1500) to see where I'm
at. (my handlheld has to be almost on the target to register.)

Have you done this prior to having the Sunray?

Have you eliminated checking the hole again with the main
machine now?

Hope I made myself clear

Trying to get away from the up and down.

have a good un............

 

[Monty]

The GTI-1 is not al that heavy, I think it's more of a balance thing than anything else. I have a really bad back and any little amount of added weight is a problem for me.
While you are down digging the hole with the GTI-1 you won't have to get back up and recheck the hole with you detector. Since the GTI-1 is a mini-coil , run it around the lip of the hole and all the way to the bottom. If there is another target in there , say within 4" or so , it will pick it up. You have to remember, it is not an imaging coil so if the other target is trash, you won't know until you dig it. I have found that if the secondary target is within a couple of inches, you can switch over to discrimination mode and the detector will sound off just like with any other coil, which helps. IE: belltone if silver colored coin or sometimes a copper penny, regular tone if trash, gold, pop tab or other. Monty

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Monty,

thanks for all the information, it really helps.

have a good un..........

 

[jharris473]

Monty, are you referring to the new Sunray probe GI-1 Invader? I wasn't sure - you mentioned it was the "GTI probe". I just want to make sure.

James

 

[Monty]

Mine is labled GTI-1 and it's the only one they make for the GTI 2500. However I was told by Ralph it would work on any of the GTI Garretts. Monty

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

JH,

it's the Invader. Works on any GTI Garretts machine.

Picked one up for my 1500; verdict is still not in with
me. Powerful sucker, but still have problems locating
once I get in the hole. Still learning, and it is getting
better and time will tell.

have a good un............

 

[hollowpointred]

quick question......how much weight does it add to the machine? as you already know the gti 2500 is on the heavy side to start with.just curious.

 

[Monty]

Don't know I've never weighed it! Let me see if it says in the literature. It doesn't say! It's not a whole lot though. Probably less than a pound? Monty

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Hollow,

the probe and cabel weigh approx. 6 oz.; the switch box,
connectors, cable and two probe clips, approxx 5 oz; total
weight of approx. 11 oz.

have a good un............

 

[Monty]

Re: GTI 2500 and Sunray probe - New Evaluation - Final Evaluation

Thanks Sherm, I guessed close huh? I suppose it's time I did a final evaluation on this bit of equipment since I've had a chance to use it most of the winter.

For the sake of expediency, I will refer to the GT1-1 Invader as a "probe", although it is really a tiny coil that can be used as a probe. I have not only done my own independent evaluation but have corresponded with a couple of other very knowledgible users who tend to agree with me. I have explained pretty much how the probe works so I will skip all those details and get right to it.

The Sunray GT1-1 Invader probe is a very handy accessory for the Garrett GTI 2500 that is already endowed with many bells and whistles. My only big problem with it is that the GTI 2500 is so good at pinpointing, you don't use the probe or need it as much as you might on some other brands or models of detectors. At the same time it is very handy for finding those weak or iffy targets that you might otherwise miss. It is great for locating other or additional targets that might be found in the same hole. For example, you get a signal for a quarter sized coin and on rechecking the hole you find additional coins. With the probe, you can do this without getting up and down and running your coil back over the hole, thus saving a lot of wear and tear on us old farts! It also saves time for you youngsters.

You can get an undug object signal at about 4" max where you have to almost touch the target object to get a signal with a standard electronic probe. The bigger the target of course the deeper it can be read. I was able to find a quarter at 7", but in comparing my data with that of others I find that that is an exception, 3" to 4" being the norm. I have not consistently found targets beyond that range.

While the Sunray GT1-1 is not an imaging coil, that is not a handicap as you can read the target's size and depth on your screen with your main coil. Also, the tones remain consistent with the main coil. Otherwise the GT1-1 will read everything the main coil reads......since it is really a mini-coil!

Two of the GT1-1 users reported they had a little trouble finding an errant target once the hole was dug, especially a coin. One explained that since the shaft of the probe is not shielded he experienced problems locating the direction of the errant coins. I had that problem at first until I figured out the tip of the probe is very directional oriented and you must point the tip directly at the target and listen for the loudest signal. I found myself digging the the plug just a little larger than usual in order to have room to manipulate the probe, especially in deeper targets. With use and experience this becomes easier.

Overall I would have to say the Sunray GT1-1 Invader probe is a worthy buy. Although a little steep it is no more expensive than some of the aftermarket coils that are becoming more and more available. It will also work on any of the Garrett GTI series of detectors.
Those of us who are not very good at pinpointing will find it invaluable. Those of us who have problems getting up and down so many times on a hunt will find it handy. If I had to rate it on a scale of say one to ten I would rate it about an eight. Monty