Harassed by the Police tonight...

[FooserPaul]

Hello all...

I was detecting in the front of a school tonight.. a school I've been hunting for 2 years and have 20-25 pieces of silver from... I was about to call it and a white car stops and a man starts waving for me to come here... I took off my headphones and asked him what he wanted... He came around the car and was still motioning for me to come to him, but I stood where I was... then from the left... a town police car stops and 2 uniformed policeman walk over as he was approaching me...

They asked me what I was doing... As much as I wanted to say something smart... I calmly explain that I am metal detecting, and they asked for clarity... They asked me for my written permission from the school superintendent or the board of education to be digging up their property... I explain that I was not digging up their property and explain how a target is recovered... I told them I've been doing this for years at this school. There are not rules concerning metal detecting. They explain that they had the right to ensure that the grounds were safe for children and a child could possible trip and fall from what I am doing and they would be liable as would I if they did not doing something about it... They asked me to leave and obtain written permission to come back... I explained that I would leave and just stick to the city parks... and they told me that I would need written permission to detect there as well... I asked why I needed permission to do something there were no rules for... It was a no win no win no win spot to be in...They never asked for my name or to see ID... Just said I should move on and not come back without written permission...

Ignorance about detecting is frustrating....

I hope everyone had a better night than I...

Paul

 

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[Dano Sverige]

Should have told them "ok i'll leave,but next time you decide to harrass me...have written permission!"
(Just remember to mention that your girlfriend is in that apt across the street with a video cam! lol)

 

[deepskyal]

I don't know....something stinks. Telling you that you can't do parks either. Sounds like they stepped over the bounds just a tad.

You can complain to their boss...then probably be harassed everytime you sneeze wrong, let it go and when they catch you again they write you up for disorderly conduct...bring it to someone in authority's position ...then they outlaw detecting...hmmm

What to do, what to do
A rock and a hard place.

Al

 

[watercolor]

It's interesting that they did not ask for your liscense or other ID. . . that's usually SOP.
Probably too much paperwork for running a check so they mentiond the first thing that came to mind.

Check the village web site for park regulations. . . if nothing is on the books, then I would say you're good to go.

 

[Coin Digger]

That's the problem with cops, they think their god and are never wrong.

Depending on the size of town you live in I would cool it for a while, if not the rest of the year. Give them time to forget about it.
Then next year I would get permission to hunt the school and not worry about the park if there's no rules against it.

In the mean time go to other town parks.

 

[Saturna]

Oh well, at least you took a little heat off of the drug addicts and car thieves for a moment.

 

[jeff of pa]

So.. Do you Know the Police ?
are they New ?
is one New ?

Seems to me somone on the police force
is showing off, or somone in that part
of town is.

written permission is very hard to obtain
from somone who hasn't approaced you to detect.
mainly because nobody wants to take risks
with their signature.

I would go to the school maintenance person
first, if you can catch him outside mowing grass.
Ask him if you can hunt it on weekends.
IF He says yes, ask him his name & Say
Thank you (Name here) Do I need written
permission ? & Go from there.

If he says no to written permission,
Drop his name next time approached and Tell
the *&^%$'s to go talk to him.

IF He says no to hunting,
Go over his head to the school Office.
Don't mention he said no,
just ask again.

if they says yes , ask if
you need Written permission.
IF They say no,
Just say Ok !
Thank you !

& tell the police, you were told you don't need wriitten
permission from the school. you pay taxes

on the parks
Unfortunately they don't need laws.
you almost have to obey the police
and leave if they tell you to.

unless you have money to pay a lawyer,

they can charge you with disorderly conduct,
disobeying them, destruction of property
(destruction is pushing it, but Wanna Fight it ? )
and probably a few other trumped up things
if you show them your not their pet project.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I'm just curious - where do they get the money to have those parks? Is it the town you live in? I'm assuming there are no swings or anything there that could hurt you, right?

I know I have a real attitude about who owns public lands, and why do you have to be doing a certain activity to participate in the use of those lands, but, as the years roll by, there are more and more places that are off-limits for ONLY us.

I hope none of the police ever wants you to find something for them.

B

 

[Bum Luck]

Sounds like a slow day....................

Someone is in charge of their budget. An alderman or council member.

You elect him.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Fooser-paul, let's cut to the chase: From your own text, of what they said, you can see that metal detecting is not the issue here. You can see they think you are: ".... digging up their property..." Now obviously, as long as you leave no trace of your presence, and don't leave divots, scars, etc.... then in our mind, we are not "digging up their property", right? But who do you think is going to win that debate?

I have even heard of people who *distinctly* only use a teensy probe, *only* for shallow clad (they aren't even angling for deepies). And ....... if they run into a busy-body, will try to differentiate between "popping" "probing" digging" , etc... and even those timid people can loose the debate, as silly as it sounds. Why? because public officials are tasked with interpretting the laws, as they see fit, to fit a variety of situations that may develope. So while there may be no specific prohibitions, they could morph something absolutely silly, to apply to you. (ie.: don't disturb the earthworms, or you might hit a sewer pipe that's buried 8 ft. down, etc....). And if you try to argue with them...... it's usually useless. "Image" is everything, and "reality" is almost nothing.

Therefore, I like 19blockhead64's advice: just cool it for awhile, in just that one area, and I bet they forget about it. I too have had nosy busy-body cops or gardeners say something. I just "move on", and avoid just that one park, or just that one gardener, for a year or so, and then return. Then after that, it's like before: you go un-bothered, and again, no one ever cares again.

You could certainly try to get written permission, as this cop says you need (he's wrong BTW), but the problem there will be, is you might get an arbitrary "no", from a desk-bound clerk, simply because her image is geeks with shovels. Or simply that the mere fact that you are standing their "asking her permission", simply implies that something is inherently wrong with your hobby, that you had to "ask", to begin with (ie.: would you have asked to fly a frisbee?). Then with that inference in mind, you simply dictate your own answer. Not all the time, mind you, but I have heard of it happening. And it can happen in places where, previously, no one ever had a problem before (so why did anyone feel they had to ask, is beyond me).

Let's face it: we're in an odd-ball hobby, that draws the stares of the curious. And there'll always be kill-joys out there in this world, that don't like it when others have fun, or that you might leave a mess, etc... If occasional encounters like this bother someone, they've probably picked the wrong hobby. Because it's bound to happen. Heck, I've even had it happen on the beach, where someone objects that I'm sending frequencies out that might affect their pace-maker, or that I bothered their dog, blah blah blah. You've got to have a tough skin, and keep a low profile. It's gotten to where I hunt at odd hours (even at nights), JUST to avoid busy-bodies. Sometimes it's better just to be discreet, and not make waves.

If you say you've hunted there for years prior this, un-bothered, then just hunt somewhere else, in neighboring towns, for awhile, and I bet it "goes away". For example: you say a civilian was also there (who probably called the cop, to begin with?), then I bet that "civilian" must live nearby. Thus, this probably won't happen elsewhere in that same town, as it's not in line-of-sight of his house Also make note of the shift this happened on. So for example, if it happened in the late afternoon, then that particular cop's shift is probably afternoons, eh? So go in the AM's, elsewhere, for the time-being

 

[FooserPaul]

Good point all... Their biggest concern seems to be that I COULD make a tripping hazzard for the kids...

I moved on and will detect elsewhere... and give that place till next year... plenty more public place to hunt at...

Thank you all for your time and effort in the replies... It had me down a little last night... but that was last night... I am going back to the place that has been yielding the 1700-1800's coins tonight... hopefully to recover anyther goody !!

SmilingPaul!

 

[Chug And Red]

Im bad , maybe the Idio oops person i the first car detects that area and called the police to get you out of his area!!!!

 

[LM]

I'm generally pro cop (you have to be, living in my neighborhood), but yeah, I too have had situations myself where otherwise well-intentioned cops were fast to fabricate non-existent 'rules' to back up what they were saying.

If you put themselves in their shoes, though, you have to be a little considerate. Metal Detecting is a non-standard thing. It sticks out... Further, it's a good thing that coppers are particularly protective about schools. If someone's meandering around my kids schoolyard, I want that person checked out whether he's carrying a metal detector or not.

If there are truly no rules prohibiting what you're doing, then simply articulate this to them in a friendly way- that you're a lifelong metal detecting hobbyist, quite familiar with all associated laws and regulations and there are no statutes prohibiting you from being in whatever public place you happen to be in... maybe suggest that you understand their wanting to look into it, but perhaps they should 'call this one in' and verify for themselves.

Yes, sometimes, cops can be huge egomaniacs and don't take too kindly to being informed that they're 'wrong', but as long as you're not confrontational about it, then the ball is in their court. If they press the issue by forcing you to leave- or, worst case scenario, trump up some bullshiit FTG (failure to grovel) charge and actually arrest you- you'd probably have some significant sort of after-the-fact recourse, presuming that you're correct in that you weren't breaking any laws and they were just being idiots.

Of course, there's a difference between the actual absence of restrictive rules versus "I've been doing this forever and no one has ever cared before..." even though there are rules prohibiting it.

 

[Treasures Down Under]

Checking out the questioner

Is it an Election year in your area?
Alot of times when this happens it may be a new council member or board member of the scholl that thinks he has the duty to make an issue out of nothing that concerns him to make it look like he is doing something for the pay he gets for being on the council or board. If he even gets paid for it. I would nxt time get all the names of the people asking questions and do some inquiring yourself on who they are. You willl find the underlying issue at hand. If I get confrnted by some one like this I usually show them some of the garbage I have been cleaning up and they usually say hey thanks for keeping our play grounds and parks cleaned up. I will even keep some dangerous lookin (nails,pins or even a razor blade) in my pouch to show what I pull out of the ground.
Good luck,

TDU

 

[GopherDaGold]

They should have checked your ID. It's obvious that you, and anyone w/out a badge is a terrorist.
<----- for the cops

 

[kenley]

Driving over the road for 35 yrs, I was ask to sign a form relieving the warehouse of liability in case I was injured on their property, or giving them permissin to search my truck, even not to dring soda pops from aluminum cans ( a bottle making plant)


My tactic when ask to sign my name : "Ben Dover"
No one ever paid any attention to it.

 

[bigscoop]

I think someone probably brought up the issue of liability, as they were correct in suggesting that you or the school could possibly be held liable for any injury/accident/event caused from the activity. (By liable I mean, targeted/blamed/held accountable.) Everyone is worried about being sued these days and I suspect that fear runs fairly high within the school system. Best solution, go straight to the source and ask what the deal is. Best to deal with the people who can make or break you directly.

 

[Old Town]

Scoop, what you say makes perfect sense but it's pretty certain you'll get a desk jockey unable to make any decision but No.

This is why I never ask on public land. I even detect National Parks and do not get bothered. Probably my contempt for Brown Shirts is palpable. So far nobody has ever bothered me. Better to be aggressive I find. Not confrontational, but go about your business like you belong there because you do.

OT

 

[bigscoop]

Scoop, what you say makes perfect sense but it's pretty certain you'll get a desk jockey unable to make any decision but No.

This is why I never ask on public land. I even detect National Parks and do not get bothered. Probably my contempt for Brown Shirts is palpable. So far nobody has ever bothered me. Better to be aggressive I find. Not confrontational, but go about your business like you belong there because you do.

OT

I agree to a point. But since he's already been approached I think it might be best to go see what, if anything, brought it to the forefront. I know several cops and they will all tell you that they couldn't tell someone they would need written permission unless there was something in the book of rules to support their warning. The ones I know would also tell you that they wouldn't even bother addressing such a petty issue unless someone in the chain of command told them to. Given that, I just think he needs to find out what the real issue is. Could be nothing, might be something? But at this point it might be best to find out. After having been warned it might be seen as a direct challenge if you go back without at least investigating things a bit, especially if you have no knowledge of a law or regulation that might actually be in place. Just my two cents.

 

[Old Town]

Scoop, I agree you should not get into it with a cop. Even if you are correct you will be wrong. When I was a kid in the 70s, police seemed human to me. Never had a bad time with police until they started going to full tactical web gear, semi-auto pistols, SMGs, weight training, and steroids in the late 80s. All it seems we have now are musclebound bullies who lack the common touch. I avoid them at all costs.

That said, I'd still pull the paper ruse on any one of these rubes. MIT and Harvard never loses any students when the police academies fill up in the fall.

Old Town