Hard rock on placer claim?

[desert-rat]

Is it legal to mine hard rock on a placer claim and vise versa? I found some gold containing Quartz that's on a placer claim and definitely don't want to take anything that isn't rightfully mine or legal. What are the common rules of curtsies on this?

 

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[kcm]

If the rock you are looking at can be packed out without blasting, prying or otherwise digging, then it would fall under Placer. If it is attached to the Earth, then it would be Hard Rock. Permits are good for either 1 or the other. If it's hard rock, you'll need a hard rock permit.

There may be slight variances of interpretation from area to area, so might be best to get a questionable answer verified locally - meaning, how big does a rock have to be to be considered Hard Rock?

From my best understanding, some would say that if you have to break the gold out of rock, then it's hard rock. However, there are specimen pieces that are mostly rock with a tiny bit of gold. So who's to say for sure? ....Specimen's anyone??

 

[robert2b]

directly from the BLM

Lode Claims

Deposits subject to lode claims include, classic veins or lodes having well defined boundaries. They also include other rock in place bearing valuable minerals and may be broad zones of mineralized rock. Examples include quartz or other veins bearing gold or other metallic minerals and large volume but low grade disseminated metallic deposits. Lode claims are usually described as parallelograms with the longer side lines parallel to the vein or lode (see Figure 1). Descriptions are by metes and bounds surveys (giving length and direction of each boundary line). Federal statute limits their size to a maximum of 1,500 feet in length along the vein or lode. Their width is a maximum of 600 feet, 300 feet on either side of the centerline of the vein or lode. The end lines of the lode claim must be parallel to qualify for underground extralateral rights. Extra lateral rights involve the rights to minerals that extend at depth beyond the vertical boundaries of the claim.

Placer Claims

Mineral deposits subject to placer claims include all those deposits not subject to lode claims. Originally, these included only deposits of unconsolidated materials, such as sand and gravel, containing free gold or other minerals. By Congressional acts and judicial interpretations, many nonmetallic bedded or layered deposits, such as gypsum and high calcium limestone, are also considered placer deposits.

Placer claims, where practicable, are located by legal subdivision (for example: Township 10 South, Range 11 East, Section 9, SE1/4). The maximum size of a placer claim is 20 acres per locator (see Figure 2). An association of two locators may locate 40 acres, and three may locate 60 acres, etc. The maximum area of an association placer claim is 160 acres for eight or more persons.

The maximum size of a placer claim for corporations is 20 acres per claim. Corporations may not locate association placer claims unless they are in association with other private individuals or other corporations as co-locators.

The above came from the BLM web page.

So in answer to the question of whether it is legal to mine hard rock on a placer claim the answer is no. If you found some quartz float with gold in a river or drywash that would be fine, but if the quartz you found is part of a vein or lode, that would be hard rock. If it is part of a vein then by all means stake a claim. A lot of folks I know cover themselves by filing both types of claims over a given area so that they can mine from the lode as well as the surrounding creeks or drywashes.

 

[kcm]

By Congressional acts and judicial interpretations, many nonmetallic bedded or layered deposits, such as gypsum and high calcium limestone, are also considered placer deposits.
Cool. I had no idea about that. Thanks Robert.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Are you asking whether you can work a lode deposit (hard rock) on another person's placer claim or on your own? Two very different questions with the same answer.

Let's start with the basic answer from the 1872 Mining law Section 3:

Locators... shall have the exclusive right of possession and enjoyment of all the surface included within the lines of their locations, and of all veins, lodes, and ledges throughout their entire depth

So that's the simple rule. If the land is under claim it doesn't matter whether the deposit is lode or placer the claimant has the exclusive right to the minerals.

You can't even prospect a claim without the permission of the claim owner. You can work lode deposits on your own placer claim and you can work placer on your own lode claim but no one else can unless you invite them.

IF you do invite someone to prospect your placer claim and they discover a lode deposit the rules change but that is another discussion for another time.

Heavy Pans

 

[desert-rat]

From what yall are saying im going to conclude its not legal to be safe. The stuff I found is a few quartz veins in a wash wall along with wall rock on each side. it is not loose material it has to be beat apart which requires quite a bit of effort. The samples I took didn't contain enough to gold to mess with it just made me wonder about the rules of this giant game of hide and seek.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

I had a former mining partner who thought he would make some money by claiming lode on top of someone else's placer and then selling the claim. That was one of the reasons he's a former mining partner and not a current mining partner. If I can't look a man in the eye on a business deal, it isn't for me.