Harley boats and other assorted boat shopping questions. HELP!

[ropesfish]

Hey guys,
I have a question that I need some help on. I am trying to get back on the water, but there are so many boats for sale it has just about overwhelmed my senses. I am looking for something 25+ feet that is seaworthy enough to take across to the Bahamas on fair days and big enough to stay aboard for several days at a time for 3 or 4 people. Enough deck space to do some work if need be.
Throw out ideas, advice, or links to the perfect boat for sale. My budget is pretty small, so the actual price (not asking) will have to be in the $6-7K range or less. Nope,,,it is not a lot of money, but it's cash!

Does anyone have any experience with "Harley" boats made over in Barstow, FL?
Apparently all composite - no wood Kevlar construction.
The particular boat I had in mind is a 27 ft cuddy with a couple of Volvo i/o's.

I'm trying real hard to talk myself out of this project:
30 ' Sportfisher I don't know much about 653 Detroits - expensive to fix? Fuel hogs? Help here, please
or this one:
40' Boatel Houseboat w/Twin Diesel I/B's (How seaworthy IS a 40 foot houseboat?) Both of these would be fairly entertaining.
Anyone care to toss out opinions?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

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[bsloan]

now anything about boats. In our fleet of buses, we have had 671, 692, and 50 series Detroit engines. The older engines would get about 1.5 gal per hour at idle, the 50 is .10 gal per hour at idle. If the Detroit is controlled by an ECM, the fuel economy should be better. There is a scan tool you can buy for them to help diagnose problems, and keep track of fuel consumption. Also if you need an extra 20-25 mph, you can use the scan tool to cut fuel to one bank of the engine, which causes a fuel dump to the other bank. Detroit parts are available all over. They can be expensive to change the oil. Filters can be $30.00 or more, and 20=35 qts of oil, depending on pan depth.
One more thing, I was taught years ago that if a Detroit isn't leaking oil, something is wrong with it. With the older engines we had, this was true. The newer engines, not so much.

Best of luck,
Bill

 

[Dell Winders]

Actually there is more to consider in a boat than the make & model of the engines, or Diesel vs Gas, trailerable, or too dang big to haul.

Of your two choices, I would choose the houseboat. It has an ocean going hull so it will hold up in heavy sea as well as the Sports fisherman, with a lot more room and comfort. Two engines are a safety advantage. When one breaks down en-route you can still run on one engine. A second engine has got me out of trouble several times. I'm not enthused about V-drives, but they do save space

Certainly, the soft spots in the deck would be of some concern, but the price sounds reasonable. A survey costs a few hundred dollars but can save you money in the long run.

A flybridge is very beneficial for seeing & dodging Coral heads, especially in the Bahamas. Be sure you always put out two anchors, and carry a 3rd for a spare, and plenty of anchor line. Boats don't have breaks. If you go to the Bahamas, tow a dinghy. As well as being another safety feature, you can save money on dockage by anchoring in a harbour and going to shore, or getting around the corals to the best diving spots in a dinghy.

The wind, and currents don't necessarily coincide while at anchor so there are occasions when a Drogue (Sea anchor) at the stern to slow down the rocking for a better nights rest. It's a whole new world you are entering. I love it, and envy you. Dell

 

[ropesfish]

Thanks for the reply, Bill.
This engine would probably be 1980 something vintage, so I'd guess it likely has no Electronic Anything. Pretty straightforward, I am sure. The thing is in Marathon, 260 miles South and (more importantly) on the other side of the giant mine field that is South Florida. At this time of year, driving down that way just scares my socks off. My old 6-man cab Ford is not nearly as maneuverable as those little imports driven down there. I always feel like someone is taking aim on me from afar if I get much past Jupiter. Maybe I could drive down late at night...I did talk to a kingfish boat captain earlier and he thought that on a 30 ft hull it might get 1.5-2 nmpg at a slow cruise. Not good, but not horrible on a 30 ft boat.
Thanks again!

 

[ropesfish]

Thanks for the reply, Dell. It's always a pleasure to me when someone with as much experience as you have gives your advice. I really appreciate it. We're going to try to schedule a trip to see the houseboat and a couple of others tomorrow around Stuart and maybe one down @ Jupiter. I looked at a couple today that...well...the nicest thing I can say is that they were on nice trailers...
My last big boat was a sports car...now I need a truck with a camper!
I'll report back.
Thanks again!

 

[wwwtimmcp]

Detroit diesel has parts outlets everywhere. the 53 series is a two stroke engine and came in a lot of configurations. the old greyhound buses ran 8 53 detroits and some went over a million miles. they are notorious oil slingers, air sep came out with an air cleaner system that supposedly cured the problem but I have not had any dealings with any to say first hand. I never liked v 6 engines and that is mho. if you keep the filters clean and change the oil they will run a long long time. the 4 53 engine was one of my favorites, keep up with the leaks and add fuel you were good to go. a lot of city buses ran these and did very well. frankly I like 4 stroke engines better they have less leaks and are easier to work on.

 

[FISHEYE]

I have a 1968 36.7 striker sportfish.all aluminum twin turbo diesels 185hp each DAF DS-575 engines with no computers on them.I can go 130 miles and only burn 25 gallons of diesel for both engines running.Plus i can run biodiesel in them if i want since it costs me less than 1 dollar a gallon for me to make.

 

[pvet7521]

Great boat

There's a 1982 Bertram for sale on eBay it's loaded if I had the money it would be mine. The bid is up to 7500. I spoke to the owner, he'll take 10 k check it out its a great deal

 

[ropesfish]

Well, I've been researching and asking questions and listening and have now learned a couple things...Since I live where I do (Sebastian) I/O's are a poor idea due to the rapid marine growth year round and the high incidence of failure when kept in saltwater. Couple that with the sorry fuel burn numbers I keep hearing - no I/Os.
I looked at a nice 27 foot Proline in Sanford. Great looking boat for it's age on a very very nice 32 foot trailer for $6500 with 275 gallons of gasoline aboard to feed to the 2 200 VRO Johnson engines on the back. Fuel burn according to the owner is 1 mpg average at best. OVER $4.25 a mile to move this boat. This removes old thirsty outboards from contention. It is a 9.5 mile boat ride to Mulligan's and back. Lunch would cost wayyy too much. Bethel Shoals and back for a dive or fishing trip...45 miles...$200 bucks. Nope.
We are getting this narrowed down to diesel inboards or late model new technology outboards and the new outboards are not cheap.
Cost of operation is key though.


Hey Tim,
You are right, parts availability is good, parts costs are still pretty high. Everyone agrees that Detroit's are leakers. I guess they sort of have their own built in corrosion protection scheme...a light covering of oil for all parts. A million miles in a start and stop, idling and low speed operation environment is quite an accomplishment for old manufacturing technology. It is hard to imagine how far the newer engines will go.

Fisheye...I had to download the operator's manual for those DAF's to find out what they were...German engineering...nice! At what speeds do you get that sort of fuel usage? Are the DAF's hard to source parts for?


Pvet...that's a pretty slick Bertram. It looks very well maintained. Did the owner say anything about how she is on fuel?
There is a 31' Silverton over at St Pete that looks too cheap:
SILVERTON YACHT 31 FOOT GULFSTREAM IN LIVEABOARD SLIP ST PETE BEACH FL NICE in Powerboats & Motorboats | eBay Motors
What I have come to believe is that with fuel so expensive, these big old thisty boats are too expensive to operate. At the very low interest rates seen today, someone inclined to borrow money on a boat could probably save enough on fuel to make the boat payment.

 

[FISHEYE]

DAF's are dutch.The only part that is german on these engines is the Bosch 50hp 40lb direct drive starter.I don't have a problem getting parts since Paccar bought out DAF trucking a few years ago.Paccar owns also Kenworth and Peterbilt.I can go to the Kenworth dealer here in orlando and get any parts i want for my engines.The only part they don't make anymore is the cast iron tuned exhaust pipe off my turbo's.They mailed me the blueprint for it so i can get it made out of stainless steel.The hull on my boat is designed so when im on a plane i can run on 1 engine and still stay on a plane.The boat is supposed to do 20 knots.Right now it does 12 due to the wrong size props on it that are 24x24.The owner of the striker factory in holland said its supposed to have 22x22's so i got a prop guy lined up to cut them down and re pitch them both.I suspect that with the right size props it may burn less fuel since there wont be much of a load on the engines.

 

[pvet7521]

on fuel

1 mile to the gal anyway you look at it, I know he'll take 10 maybe a little less. I had a silverton just like that . The bertrems a better boat and the condition of that one is exceptional

 

[ropesfish]

That Bertram is a fine boat and if gasoline was $2 a gallon and would stay $2/gallon I'd try to buy it, but I suspect that if gasoline was cheaper boats of that size would be significantly higher in price.
31' Bertram Sportfish, Flybridge, Engines just Redone, Rare Model in Fishing Boats | eBay Motors
With marina gas at over $4/gallon efficiency becomes much more important.
Still looking around...

 

[ropesfish]

Thanks for the good advice and opinions everyone. I've rejoined the ranks of boat owners and home-brewed boat mechanics once again. Thanks to Fisheye and Macblastr for a fair deal and a nice ride. Now....could someone tell me how to set up to receive donations for fuel and parts?

 

[gord]

Seems to me that I remember hearing (about 50 years or so ago) the warning "If you have to ask the price of the boat, I'll tell you right now you can't afford it".