has montezumas tomb been found ...?

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Parker: Have you read my motto under my Avatar??

" I Exist to Live, not Live to Exist" Nothing more needs to be said, except that I am still puzzled over your remark -->

"As long as I have one good hand I will always be playing with myself".

Explain please, remember that I have had a very sheltered life and am not up to this modern life. sooo.


Don Jose de La Mancha

Yes Sir.....i have read your motto !
THE REMARK
"As long as I have one good hand I will always be playing with myself" was posted by ED T.........and he was joking with BB when he said that.
But if there was something i said you need me to explain i will be more then happy to accommodate

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Cubfan64]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Yah, you're right on where the "photo discussion will go," but it's interesting to me nontheless. The thing about monuments and markers out there that would always concern me is verifying the authenticity of them.

Keep in mind, in the last 100 years+ since Waltz died there have been hundreds of people out there following God knows how many maps and directions - many of which claimed identifying markers (stones, cacti, etc...) - I don't think it's a stretch AT ALL to assume that if authentic markers were found by treasure hunters, the majority of them were destroyed - afterall, if a treasure hunter thinks he's on the right path due to a marker he found, the first thought would be to remove that marker so nobody else could possibly come across it.

I'm absolutely positive there have not only been numerous instances of that occurring, but on the flip side, I'm also absolutely convinced that "new" markers have been put in place over the years in many areas to try to move searches away from things and into different areas.

How one determines the authenticity of a REAL monument/marker seems like it would be a nontrivial matter.

That said, I'm still curious about what you found and whether anyone else has ever come across something similar out there.

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Cant make out anything there in your pic ! Could be just a play of shadows....Ive never came across any pyramid shaped monument's out there on my trek's aside from trail marker pile of stones.

 

[djui5]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Don Jose,
You found my secret ingredient!!

BB,
ahem, that isn't a monument. It's a mountain behind the tree that your photographing through. If you took the picture on the other side of the tree it wouldn't look like that. Not that I need to explain that here, I just didn't want people buying into your "pyramid monument" theory.

Parker,
We should go hiking sometime this fall

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Parker,
We should go hiking sometime this fall

Certainly..........

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

its not a thoery at all its just something that looks out of place if there was not a stone wall near it i would out right agree with you ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings Randy and everyone,

Don Djui5 wrote:

Don Jose,
You found my secret ingredient!!

BB,
ahem, that isn't a monument. It's a mountain behind the tree that your photographing through. If you took the picture on the other side of the tree it wouldn't look like that. Not that I need to explain that here, I just didn't want people buying into your "pyramid monument" theory.

Dang Randy now I have to ask – was there experimenting before arriving at the secret ingredient for your camp coffee? Just thinking of the experiments necessary brings back some un-savory memories!

I know that your reply is for our amigo Blindbowman but it brings up a rather odd phenomenon that exists in the southwest (and the west in general really) that is for people from the east, there is a tendency to underestimate distances when in the west. The distances can be deceptive, and a US military study in the 1800s found that most easterners would underestimate distances in the west by a factor of three. Sometimes the underestimate was vast, judging a mountain to be a few hundred yards away when it was actually more than twenty miles away. I grew up in the east and had difficulty in guessing range when I first went west so have made misjudgements myself. As we know that Blindbowman has had eye troubles ever since his accident, it is understandable (somewhat) if he made a distance mistake – though in this case it seems quite a stretch. For that matter I can’t even make out the pyramid in the photo so have to take your word on it as to what it really is.

Just making note of the odd bit, please carry on gentlemen…
Oroblanco

 

[djui5]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Dang Randy now I have to ask – was there experimenting before arriving at the secret ingredient for your camp coffee? Just thinking of the experiments necessary brings back some un-savory memories!

I'm sure there was, but the problem is I don't remember them!!! WHAT DID I DRINK??

I know that your reply is for our amigo Blindbowman but it brings up a rather odd phenomenon that exists in the southwest (and the west in general really) that is for people from the east, there is a tendency to underestimate distances when in the west.
Oroblanco

Well now that is interesting! I'd believe it too. See the reason being that in the East there are lots of trees and you can't really see far. When you come to the West, where it's all desert (relatively speaking), you can see for "miles and miles". People from the East wouldn't be used to that, so their depth perception would be thrown way off.
Thanks for sharing that info!

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

i wont be on the web much tonight , i cook dinner tonight and no one can move ...lol .. great food .. started with a spicy thai chili with real hom mali rice and a sesame chicken ...and portobello mushroom stuffed rigatoni .....its like heaven on earth .. very rich food ....great flavors ....

 

[CarolinaDigs]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

i wont be on the web much tonight , i cook dinner tonight and no one can move ...lol .. great food .. started with a spicy thai chili with real hom mali rice and a sesame chicken ...and portobello mushroom stuffed rigatoni .....its like heaven on earth .. very rich food ....great flavors ....

BB finally something I can relate to Coffee and great food

 

[djui5]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Did MB post? Did I miss it?

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Randy,

I believe Ed was calling you.....Mesa Buddy.

Joe

 

[Old Dog]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Mesabuddy's post was #409

 

[MesaBuddy]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

No CJ he wasn't , Ed made a rather humorous comment about something , and I had to let him know that it cracked me up the way he said it
As you can see I try not to get involved with inter net talk
MB

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

how are people going to flert with you that way ....lol

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

think about it , potery was used for cooking and arrow heads and clovis pionts were used to gather game for cooking , gardens were away to gather food , so lot of a culture is centerd around collecting and cooking food ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Sorry M.B.,

It's getting hard for me to follow this thread. Easy to see why someone might get mixed up. Hard for me to remember what I had for breakfast this morning, let alone a casual comment with that much fluff in between.

No offense meant.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[MesaBuddy]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

No apology needed Joe , I know what you mean
Best regards ,
MB
p.s. Ed , thanks for the laugh , that was a good one , never have heard it put that way

 

[kanabite]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

hi mesa , good to see you . got to go before i get yelled at .take care mi amigo.

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

nother peice of the puzzle :


"Gonzalo de Salazar (b. Granada, Spain; d. ca. 1564, New Spain) was leader of several councils that governed New Spain while Hernán Cortés was traveling to Honduras, in 1525-26.


Early life
Gonzalo de Salazar was born in Granada to Doctor Guadalupe de Salazar, a famous converso physician who served the royal family. His wife, Catarina (aka Catalina) de la Cadena Maluenda, was descended from Mossen Truchas de Calatayud. Her family also converted and assumed the surname "Maluenda" after the town where they lived. Catalina's brother was Antonio De La Cadena Maluenda. All three arrived in New Spain (Mexico City) in 1525. At a young age Gonzalo began serving the Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella as a page. He fought in the Castilian War of the Communities, opposing the rebels against Emperor Charles V. For this, Charles rewarded him with the position of factor (tax collector) of New Spain.

He became an encomendero (holder of an encomienda) in Tajimaroa (Michoacán) and elsewhere.


Temporary government in the absence of Cortés
In 1524 Governor and Captain General Cortés left Mexico City for Honduras. He put the government in charge of Alonso de Estrada, royal treasurer of the colony appointed by Charles, Rodrigo de Albornoz and Licenciado Alonso de Zuazo, with Estrada at the head. The transfer of power occurred October 12, 1524.

When Cortés left Mexico City he was accompanied by Gonzalo de Salazar and Pedro Almíndez Chirino as far as Coatzacoalcos. Salazar and Almíndez used this opportunity to convince the conqueror that they should be included in the government. Cortés sent them back with two decrees. The first decree directed that they join the already-formed government of Estrada, Albornoz and Zuazo as its fourth and fifth members, provided that the two groups could reconcile their differences. The second decree directed that Salazar and Almíndez replace Estrada and Albornoz, and continue governing with Zuazo.


Government of Salazar and Almíndez
When Salazar and Almíndez arrived back in the capital, they suppressed the first of these decrees, and made known only the second one, thus taking over the government. This took place on December 29, 1524. However, they made the mistake of admitting the deception to some friends. This resulted in a scandal, and on February 17, 1525, Estrada and Albornoz were admitted to the government, which now included all five men mentioned by Cortés. In order of importance, these were Salazar (tax collector), Almíndez (inspector), Estrada (treasurer), Albornoz (accountant) and Zuazo (justicia mayor).

The expanded governing council was the work of Zuazo, acting as an arbitrator based on the first decree received from Cortés. The two factions, however, were not really reconciled. Estrada and Albornoz objected to the arrangement. On April 20, 1525, Salazar and Almíndez proclaimed that no officials were to recognize the authority of Estrada and Albornoz, on pain of 100 lashes and confiscation of property. This proclamation was signed by Zuazo, Cervantes, de la Torre, Sotomayor, Rodrigo de Paz (a member of the ayuntamiento, or city government), and the clerk Pérez. Estrada and Albornoz left Mexico City to seek out Cortés and present their case to him.


Despotism
The council continued with three members (Zuazo was still a member) until April 20, 1525. In the middle of the night, Zuazo was arrested in his home and taken under guard to be sent back to Spain. He went as far as Santo Domingo, where he spent the rest of his life, dying in 1527.

Zuazo was a respectable, educated man, a friend of Cortés, and apparently incorruptible. His arrest freed Salazar and Almíndez from all checks on their authority, and they began to govern despotically. They made it known that Cortés (untruthfully) had been killed by Indians. On August 19, 1525 they tried to confiscate his property. They arrested Rodrigo de Paz, whom Cortés had left as majordomo of his property. Paz was tortured to find out the location of Cortés's hidden treasure. He provided some locations, and then was hanged in the plaza.

Salazar sent out agents to extort treasures. When refugees were forced to leave a church, Father Valencia protested the violation of sanctuary by excommunicating Mexico City until the prisoners were restored.


Overthrow
In early 1526 a messenger (Martín de Orantes or Dorantes) from Cortés arrived in Mexico City. His instructions were to replace Salazar and Almíndez in the governing triumvirate with Francisco de las Casas and Pedro de Alvarado. In the absence or incapacity of Las Casas and Alvarado, Estrada and Albornoz were named as replacements. Orantes entered the city in secret and made contact with members of the opposition.

At daybreak on January 28, 1526 Orantes and other opponents of Salazar and Almíndez left the convent where they were staying, marched along the streets shouting "Viva Cortés", arrested Salazar, and succeeded in getting the ayuntamiento to execute the orders of Cortés. Estrada and Albornoz rejoined the government, because Las Casas and Alvarado were absent. Almíndez was arrested later in Tlaxcala, and brought back to Mexico City. Estrada and Albornoz governed from January 29, 1526 to June 24, 1526, or just short of six months. Cortés returned and took up the government again (very briefly) on June 25, 1526. Salazar and Almíndez did not return to the government again.


Afterwards
Salazar and Almíndez escaped the fate of many of their enemies; they were not killed, and later were freed. Salazar returned to Spain, to the Court, where he was reappointed to his position as factor in New Spain. He returned to the colony in 1540, and died there, probably in 1564.


See also
List of Viceroys of New Spain

References
(Spanish) García Puron, Manuel, México y sus Gobernantes. Mexico City: Joaquín Porrua, 1984.

External links
Spanish Conquest 1492-1580 by Sanderson Beck

i will keep defineing the dates to a given center piont ...