*****HELP I NEED HELP GOLD PROSPECTORS solving a problem********

[keepmehumblelord]

Hi everyone I am in the process of starting up a small mining operation with a backhoe loader and going to have a 10ft sluice and somehow put a 6ft box over the sluice with a grizzly. Im going to be mining in arizona so water is a issue because to get to my claim id feel safe hauling no more then 200 gallons in at a time. I am allowed a 10x10 settling pond but anything bigger then my bond permit will sky rocket. I have choosen weaver creek in arizona for my claims. I have 60 acres their and it is all in the weaver creek. Excellent ground. For some reason the old timers left the red pay layer on the sides of the old ancient river bed. gold gold gold all in their. i have sampled and its coarse and wirey gold. anyways im on here for a reason. I have till january to come up with a game plan. i am filing for a reclamation bond to use a small backhoe loader. my issues and problem to solve is this: it costs 3000 to rent a backhoe loader and thats only a 35horse machine. its 3500 for the bigger one. I have to have everything in place before i rent the machine as the cost is riduculous and i have not looked for any other investers besides my good friend who is putting up 10k with his money returned and 5k for putting up the money and a recurring 15% as long as i gold mine. The deal kinda sucks cuz 10% i would be fine with and 10k returned. Hes looking at it from a lossing point of view for his sake. Anyways thats one issue im dealing with as 15% can be a 150,000 in a million a year operation but i will be 100,000 1 year running operation approx. Of course this is a approx could be less could be more. 40 acres of my claim is all pay dirt. other claim is directly 20 acres in the main creek thats flowed over the past 100 years and been worked but not all of it. I also have red pay dirt on approx 5 acres of this claim. their is approx 5 acres of not worthy mining it and 10 acres of good massive gravel beds that have only been poked around on from the old membership club that use to own it. I have already invested all my money 7000 and i bought a 4x4 vehicle a pop up camper and a small highbanker pump generator. well with the 10k i can start and run for 1 month and then the money is out. I figured 4 grams a day would cover cost so 8 grams is the goal per day at first going then i hope to get 3 runs a day for 24 grams a day. I am allowed to dig a 12x12x12 in my permit. thats 8 yds of dirt and i can backfill after dug and move onto next hole. i figure i could do this 3 times in a day before i become efficient enought to do this 5 times. anyways the gold is all over my claim. so with 10 k i can buy all the materials needed to build a small washplant like the atv angus mckirk one. this is the issue im asking your help on. I planned on taking a harbor freight folding trailer and it folds at 2 points. the ball hitch part folds down and the 2nd section folds up as well as the 3rd section. Since you have to assemble it yourself i planned on taking one 4x4ft section and adding 2 45deg post holes to set up as the backhoes grizzly and welding 18 pieces of 1 1/2 inch steel angle giving me a 2-3 inch gap to classife the largest rocks. then the other portion of the trailer that will have wheels attached along with the front ball hitch part that i wanted to build a 5ft box like the atv and place 2in spray bars on both sides as well as top to stir up the claying red material. and then it would funnel to a 2ft or 3ft port with circular grizzly bars i would have to weld on as well. then the slucie would be 90 deg to the massive hopper box. i wish they had a in betweener like the atv and the gold hog monster hog. I will also be using monster hog matting and going to order pre fab sluice box 14 wide and 5ft long 2 of them for 10ft sluice box. I also will be using 3 100 gal rubbermaid bins to recirculate as i have not come up with a idea for a tailing pond as it is pretty darn difficult in the first place to get water out there. (maybe someone has a idea for the water?) Maybe thats why no commercial ops have been back there but the gold is there. JUst wondering if you can help me out with this issue. biggest problems is the water situation and how to efficiently run the dirt and get to my 46 yds running a day at a 1/2 gram a gold per yd material. And maybe you can point me at a better deal to get money as well. I also have a 3000 car a 2500 truck and my 1000 pop up camper as collateral in this deal we are working on. Well any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated. I know how to use the blm lr2000 very well and can tell if someone has put a location within 8 day period. So after the 60 acres are mined up it is easy to find others letting their claims go. The water issue keeps most large scale operations away. I have to run all my pay dirt at once i think otherwise intervenely running would be the water running more and more slurry stirred up. I also plan on taking a auger and hooking it up to a small motor which will fit in pvc to continue the tailing from piling up in the 100 gal containers. ANY SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS OF HOW TO DO SOMETHING LIKE IM TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.

 

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[kazcoro]

Run a huge drywasher. They are out there...

 

[kazcoro]

Can you not drill a well?

 

[smokeythecat]

For a settling pond, are you permitted to use a impermeable surface? EPDM roofing rubber comes in 10' and 20' widths and is nearly indestructible. Maybe pump into one pond to settle and lay a piece of rubber down between the two and put in pond downstream for the reservoir to pump out of. I used to put in garden ponds.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

ive looked into the dry washers but one rain will ruin it for at least 2 weeks and the material i am working has to much moisture in it. i have wanted to do the commercial dry washer and have thought very long on it. If i wanted to use the material i would have to by giant tarps 100x100 to put material on and dry out in the sun. I just dont see turning a decent profit doin it this way. as red dirt tends to be clay like cuz all the minerals. but good thinking i see where you are coming from.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

hey there

Can you not drill a well?

I could apply for it but the cost would be probably twice as much what im already having to for up for the first month. It is a option down the road when money is available but even then i would have to find out how far down the water table is which wouldnt be to big of a problem.

 

[Gold Maven]

Will 1/2 gram/yard pay? 46 yds/ day is a lot for a small operation with limited water.

If so, can you just buy a small hoe? think of it as an investment that you can always sell and get your money back. I bet you could buy a decent older one for 2 months rent of that small one.

I picked up a nice mid 1980's massey rubber tired front loader with hoe attachment for $1500. Good Luck. Post some pics of your operation when you get her running.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

For a settling pond, are you permitted to use a impermeable surface? EPDM roofing rubber comes in 10' and 20' widths and is nearly indestructible. Maybe pump into one pond to settle and lay a piece of rubber down between the two and put in pond downstream for the reservoir to pump out of. I used to put in garden ponds.

I can put any impermeable surface just have to dispose after completed on the claim. Thanks for bringing this up smokey this also leads to another question i need answered is i can have any size of pond i want if its above the ground and just trying to figure out something that the tailing could be removed out of like a kids pool 2ft by 10 or bigger. i could line it with the epdm roofing which is a great idea but to take out the tailing is the issue as well

 

[kazcoro]

ive looked into the dry washers but one rain will ruin it for at least 2 weeks and the material i am working has to much moisture in it. i have wanted to do the commercial dry washer and have thought very long on it. If i wanted to use the material i would have to by giant tarps 100x100 to put material on and dry out in the sun. I just dont see turning a decent profit doin it this way. as red dirt tends to be clay like cuz all the minerals. but good thinking i see where you are coming from.

This probably a bit of a stretch seeing as to your budget, but I have often wondered if this plan would work- Set up a chain of drywashers so that the damp materials from the first runs into the second, less damp runs into the third, etc. You could run as many as needed. Usually, if the gorund is pretty damp, I run my material three times. I know this is out there, but it may get you thinking about what would work for ya.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

Can you just buy a small hoe? think of it as an investment that you can always sell and get your money back. I bet you could buy a decent older one for 2 months rent of that small one.

I picked up a nice mid 1980's massey rubber tired front loader with hoe attachment for $1500. Good Luck. Post some pics of your operation when you get her running.

I would love to get a backhoe with loader attachment for that price. Ive looked but i have come across harbor freight $2500 but i just dont think the break out force is strong enough especially dealing with basketball size boulders and lare softball size mixed in with the red dirt. I was almost going to purchase the HF backhoe which my plant is going to be portable anyways so i could move it around and the water and run just the backhoe and no need for the loader but i dont think a 12in bucket will move the 46 yds of material a day. it might but i have not found any info of anyone using it in rough soil conditions. only 1 feedback on hf website a guy said he bought it for oregon gold mining and loves it. I would like a massey F and have found some for 9000 but i have a 10000 budget to work with. Thats the downfall. Otherwise id have eme a 50hp or better large cab loader/backhoe. Any suggestions where to look for something thats older and under a 4000 price range for the machine?

 

[kazcoro]

I can put any impermeable surface just have to dispose after completed on the claim. Thanks for bringing this up smokey this also leads to another question i need answered is i can have any size of pond i want if its above the ground and just trying to figure out something that the tailing could be removed out of like a kids pool 2ft by 10 or bigger. i could line it with the epdm roofing which is a great idea but to take out the tailing is the issue as well

This is a pretty good idea. But, seeing as how I am a pro roofer, I would suggest PVC or TPO roofing instead. It is a more durable material, and you could choose from either a white or black side. Well, the backside of PVC is grey, TPO back is black, depending on maufacturer. You let me spend a couple of days playing around out there, I could supply the material....

 

[Goodyguy]

I would love to get a backhoe with loader attachment for that price. Ive looked but i have come across harbor freight $2500 but i just dont think the break out force is strong enough especially dealing with basketball size boulders and lare softball size mixed in with the red dirt. I was almost going to purchase the HF backhoe which my plant is going to be portable anyways so i could move it around and the water and run just the backhoe and no need for the loader but i dont think a 12in bucket will move the 46 yds of material a day. it might but i have not found any info of anyone using it in rough soil conditions. only 1 feedback on hf website a guy said he bought it for oregon gold mining and loves it. I would like a massey F and have found some for 9000 but i have a 10000 budget to work with. Thats the downfall. Otherwise id have eme a 50hp or better large cab loader/backhoe. Any suggestions where to look for something thats older and under a 4000 price range for the machine?

Forget the HF trencher, too slow and too underpowered for your operation.

GG~

 

[keepmehumblelord]

This is a pretty good idea. But, seeing as how I am a pro roofer, I would suggest PVC or TPO roofing instead. It is a more durable material, and you could choose from either a white or black side. Well, the backside of PVC is grey, TPO back is black, depending on maufacturer. You let me spend a couple of days playing around out there, I could supply the material....

I would be interested in how much you would want for the material. I have to think more about it. I just thought of a idea using a A fram under sluice box that enters into the bins or a tailing pond and have it steep enough where the gravel 1/8 inch or smaller will fall into the bin and the larger material be discarded of to the sides to later be scooped up and backfill my holes. Does anyone have experience with this.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

Forget the HF trencher, too slow and too underpowered for your operation.

GG~

THanks goodguy i was wondering about that. I couldnt find any feedback. I saw multiple diggings but always just sand type ground. I know you can put a 13hp motor on it to make it very quick there is links on youtube but not sure about break up force. i could leave it attached to a vehicle but i dont think it would do more than 4-8 yards a day

 

[Goodyguy]

Also three 100 gal tanks may not do the job sufficiently. Possibly you may need three 500-1000 gal tanks to run 40+ yards a day. That's equivalent to 5 yards per hour for 8 hours or 200/5 gal buckets full per hour for 8 hours. You will be surprised how fast the water gets saturated with dirt, especially when running the red stuff.
CLICK HERE:1000 gal water tank

GG~

 

[Goodyguy]

Check out this video showing an approx 300 gal recirculating system in the desert, starting 13 minutes and 20 seconds into the video.....
I would estimate they are running around a yard or two an hour.

 

[fowledup]

I'm gonna approach this from a different direction, based on my own experience, take it for what it's worth. Please take some time and re-evaluate your business plan. If your already questioning it listen to your gut! 9times out of 10 it's telling you what you know to be right but don't want to hear. Going for broke can be a fast track for doing just that- going broke! Take a year or two, scale it back, learn and prove the claim, let the claim provide the capital for your venture. As I see it now one trip from Murphy and your done and stuck with a lifetime of debt. Not trying to be a Debbie downer, these are words of wisdom from a man who has been in your shoes. I should finish paying of my rush decisions in another 10 years or so, then I can hopefully think of retiring. Then again this is coming from a guy in Kalifornistan who's going to pick up his new to him 4" dredge tomorrow! LOL! Can't help myself I'm an incurable optimist!

 

[Goodyguy]

According to Angus Mackirk their small washplant is capable of running 5 yards per hour so your 45 yards a day is not out of the question provided you can average that over a 9 hour period.

You are correct to be concerned about having enough water to support that size operation. Does the Creek have any water in it? How close is the nearest water source? Can water be caught during a rain storm or winter snows and then be stored in your tanks? Is it possible to have a load of water delivered by tank truck? Drilling a well may be worth looking into.

GG~

 

[Oakview2]

I think this is and others are some very sound advice. Let the claim provdie your capital, punch one yard holes down the length of your paystreak. Chart every hole, and by the time you get your grubstake, you will have a detailed blueprint of where to mine and where not to mine so that when you put out the cash for a larger operation, you can stay on the gold. JMHO,,, good health and good hunting.

I'm gonna approach this from a different based on my own experience, take it for what it's worth. Please take some time and re-evaluate your business plan. If your already questioning it listen to your gut! 9times out of 10 it's telling you what you know to be right but don't want to hear. Going for broke can be a fast track for doing just that- going broke! Take a year or two, scale it back, learn and prove the claim, let the claim provide the capital for your venture. As I see it now one trip from Murphy and your done and stuck with a lifetime of debt. Not trying to be a Debbie downer, these are words of wisdom from a man who has been in your shoes. I should finish paying of my rush decisions in another 10 years or so, then I can hopefully think of retiring. Then again this is coming from a guy in Kalifornistan who's going to pick up his new to him 4" dredge tomorrow! LOL! Can't help myself I'm an incurable optimist!

 

[Clay Diggins]

No drywashing this season at Rich Hill. Way too wet.

You can get 2,500 gallons delivered where you are on the gulch. You will need that much every week or two where you are working if you plan on running that much material. Ask at the Arrowhead or at the water company on Chittenden in Congress. Build your holding and settling ponds so the water truck can get in and out easily but you can still get your material to the processing plant. Probably the best place is going to be up in the red ground on the Northeast side of your claim.

That's not "ancient river gravel" on your claim. If you look close you'll see that Weaver used to run to the west about 200 feet in that section, that was 70 years ago. This is a desert pediment deposit you are working and you won't find any ancient riverbeds. Most often the gold is in small placers and streaks only a dozen or so feet across and at different depths.

I'm curious how you came to the conclusion you will get 1/2 gram per yard? What sort of sampling have you done? Have you outlined the deposit? 12x12x12 is 64 yards not 8. A 12x12x12 hole is a deathtrap to work in in those gravels. You might want to consider going to a bigger area if you really plan on going down a full 12 foot.

The HF backhoe is not going to work for you. You really need at least a half yard bucket and enough counter weight and horsepower to dig a full bucket. Those trackhoes you see digging up Weaver are over 100,000 pounds with a 30 foot digging reach. You will need about half of that for your 12 foot hole.

Consider about 20% of your week will be setup and adjustments and add another 15% for maintenance, add in 10% getting supplies and fuel for that tiny fridge and your equipment and waiting on parts for your repairs and you will be lucky to get in much more than 4 days of digging or processing in a 7 day work week. Just the reality of mining. You can't dig and process at the same time with a one man operation so you will have to put that into your productivity equation too.

You can succeed down there. It's a pretty good area and if you work smart you can come out ahead. It sounds like you need more of a grubstake than you are working from. Consider what fowledup is telling you. I'd like to see you succeed, you've got your hat in the creek now, good luck to you.

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