Help me confirm ID and Date on Texas Artifacts

[rbpwrd240]

I would appreciate some help verifying that my information is correct on the following items I have found.

View attachment 1461214
Hand Axe Date: 17,500 BP (16,000 BC)
This is my oldest artifact and it would be Pre Clovis, very little is known about these and the only reliable online reference is in the info link below. You can see a hand axe dated to 16,500 BC from the Buttermilk creek dig which just so happens to be about 3 hours from our dig area. This is an important find as it helps prove that we had earlier inhabitants then the Clovis culture which was long determined to be the first inhabitants in North America.
Info Link:https://www.aaas.org/news/science-artifacts-texas-predate-clovis-culture-2500-years





View attachment 1461215
Angostura Date: 8,000-10,000 BP (6,500-8,500 BC)
This appears to be a rough Angostura found in Texas. I thought it could be clovis but the rough nature leads me to think Angostura.
Info Link: Angostura Projectile Point






View attachment 1461216
Guadalupe Tool (Adzes) Date: 10,000 BP (8,500 BC)
These wood working tools are only found in south Texas mostly along the Guadalupe River Drainage. This is supposed to be a drill of some sort. Half way down the page in the info link you can find more information.
Info link: https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/morhiss/evidence.html






View attachment 1461217
Covington Bi-Face Blade Date: 3,000-4,000 BP (1,500-2,500 BC)
This blade is a bi-face blade type artifact. Due to it bing on the wider side I decided it more likely a blade built the Covington Bi-Faced way.
Info Link: Covington Bi-Face Projectile Point






View attachment 1461218
Base Tang Knife (Castroville) Date: 2,000-4,000 BP (500-2,500 BC)
This is a great example of the Texas Base tang knife, since the tang has deeper notches I am almost positive its a Castroville Base Tang Blade.
Info Link:Base Tang Knife






View attachment 1461219
Montell Date: 1,000-3,000 BP (500 AD- 1,500 BC)
This would be an amazing specimen if it still had the ends of the tips. Unortuanitly they broke off.
Info Link:Montell Projectile Point


Images grouped below are from the next post and dont belong on this post, mods any help here is appreciated. I believe this is also affecting the pictures above and making them just links.

 

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[rbpwrd240]

Marcos 1,800-2,600 BP (300-1,100 BC)
This is a Uni-Faced Marcos and it’s a beautiful example. Delicately made from a Uni-Face Spawl.
Info Link: Marcos Projectile Point






View attachment 1461776
Perdiz Bird Point 1,000-500 BP (950-1,450 AD )
The time period for this puts it in the 1400’s AD. This is truly a prime example.
Info Link: Perdiz Projectile Point




View attachment 1461777
Alibates 1,300-1,600 BP (1150-1450 AD )
Again the time period here puts them at about the same time as the Perdiz Bird Point. These tools show a high skill level and refinement. On the info link you can read more about these under the title Ruins of Early Village threefourths of the way down the page.
Info Link: https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/alibates/




View attachment 1461778
View attachment 1461779
Fishing Weights Bolas 10,000 BP (8,500 BC)
This Huge Bola weight would be perfect for large nets, the whole isn’t perfect but more oblonged and it appears the whole was drilled. These types of weights can date back as far as 10,000 BP
Info Link: None




View attachment 1461782
View attachment 1461783
View attachment 1461784
Spoke Shave Date: Unknown
I believe this to be an archaic period artifact but date is still unknown.
Info Link: None








Grind Stone - Nutter
I think this is a grind stone nutter rock it is fairly sedimentary and it has a definite wear pattern to it. You can see the bottom has been worn smooth and through the pours. The end has been ground to an edge like a celt but it isnt a very hard rock which leads me to believe its a grind stone. Any info on dating etc is greatly appreciated here. The white marks are from being ripped up by a plow.






View attachment 1461785
View attachment 1461786
The last artifact I have is a scrapper, for a while I thought it was a poorly crafted hand axe as noted above but after playing with it I can see that one side is heavily backed and it fits perfectly in the hand for using as a scrapper much like you would a paint brush when making sideways strokes.
Info Link: None



All these artifacts are from the great state of Texas any help is greatly appreciated I am a very very very novice rock and artifact hound.

Thanks in advance,
Alex R.

 

[crj1968]

Very nice- that Marcos point is sweet!

How big is that fishing weight?

 

[arrow86]

None of your pics are loading for me except the bottom group that didn't belong. Anybody else have any issues viewing. Interesting articles ....if you have time maybe try and repost your pics I would like to check them out

 

[rbpwrd240]

All you have to do is click on the picture link. I have tried to reload them but to no avail. Try clicking on the link.

 

[rbpwrd240]

Very nice- that Marcos point is sweet!

How big is that fishing weight?

Very large, about 4-5lbs about 8-10" diameter.

Here is the first page with pics hopefully,

I would appreciate some help verifying that my information is correct on the following items I have found.

View attachment 1461214
Hand Axe Date: 17,500 BP (16,000 BC)
This is my oldest artifact and it would be Pre Clovis, very little is known about these and the only reliable online reference is in the info link below. You can see a hand axe dated to 16,500 BC from the Buttermilk creek dig which just so happens to be about 3 hours from our dig area. This is an important find as it helps prove that we had earlier inhabitants then the Clovis culture which was long determined to be the first inhabitants in North America.
Info Link:https://www.aaas.org/news/science-artifacts-texas-predate-clovis-culture-2500-years





View attachment 1461215
Angostura Date: 8,000-10,000 BP (6,500-8,500 BC)
This appears to be a rough Angostura found in Texas. I thought it could be clovis but the rough nature leads me to think Angostura.
Info Link: Angostura Projectile Point






View attachment 1461216
Guadalupe Tool (Adzes) Date: 10,000 BP (8,500 BC)
These wood working tools are only found in south Texas mostly along the Guadalupe River Drainage. This is supposed to be a drill of some sort. Half way down the page in the info link you can find more information.
Info link: https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/morhiss/evidence.html






View attachment 1461217
Covington Bi-Face Blade Date: 3,000-4,000 BP (1,500-2,500 BC)
This blade is a bi-face blade type artifact. Due to it bing on the wider side I decided it more likely a blade built the Covington Bi-Faced way.
Info Link: Covington Bi-Face Projectile Point






View attachment 1461218
Base Tang Knife (Castroville) Date: 2,000-4,000 BP (500-2,500 BC)
This is a great example of the Texas Base tang knife, since the tang has deeper notches I am almost positive its a Castroville Base Tang Blade.
Info Link:Base Tang Knife






View attachment 1461219
Montell Date: 1,000-3,000 BP (500 AD- 1,500 BC)
This would be an amazing specimen if it still had the ends of the tips. Unortuanitly they broke off.
Info Link:Montell Projectile Point

 

[1320]

You have some nice artifacts however, you have some strong statements regarding the dating on a few, especially the Hand Axe date. Your uniface knife looks like any other ordinary spoke shave and could hardly be considered Pre Clovis unless it was properly discovered below a properly excavated Clovis site. From the picture, your "Bola" looks to have an extremely large hole and the hole doesn't appear to my eyes as having been drilled, hard to say but just from the quick glance, I would call it natural.

The grindstone I would also consider natural based on the images. The scraper I would classify as debitage. I would agree with you on your assessment of the Perdiz.

 

[rbpwrd240]

The hand axe is a Texas only form that most think is a scrapper. I can find very little proof but judging by the
dates of other artifacts found around it the dates fit also the fact that is made of Chert helps a bit. The change in pre clovis dating is due mostly to the Buttermilk creek complex that is re writing history a mere three hours away from us. If youa re familiar with the pre clovis artifacts please fill me in but the best I can tell is that we are onto something big in texas.

In the image in this article you can see a hand axe that was excavated at buttermilk creek.
Pre-Clovis Tools - Early North American Civilization

And another link also claiming pre clovis hand axes
PreClovis Artifacts from Central Texas.

As for the uni face knife scrapper etc, you are coorect I was only making judgments as it was found in amongst items from 8,000BC TO 13,000BC but I am getting mixed dates at that site and I didnt know much about it. Thanks for the info I will look into it.

As for the Bola, the hole has marks from the drilling but Ill check it closely any idea on date if it was real. That would help me eliminate its possibility to be attached to the dig I was at.

Im not trying to make bold or silly claims just get honest answers. Thanks again for the info.

Anyone got any info on the grind stone-nutter....

 

[1320]

I get what you're saying however, it's still a strong statement based on "it looks the same" and "we're three hours away". We all want to find artifacts that are Pre Clovis but the reality of it is, technically as of today, there are no artifacts that are Pre Clovis.

 

[1320]

At some point in the future, I believe a Pre Clovis culture will be confirmed and for arguments sake, let's say the experts name this culture "Diplo". The next thing we'll see popping up on message boards will be post of folks finding Pre Diplo artifacts. The reality remains, more than 99 percent of the artifacts discovered today by amateurs are Post Clovis.

 

[1320]

You did catch the "Possible Pre Clovis" statement with the link you provided?

 

[rbpwrd240]

I understand your sentiment and I will take it into account. The buttermilk creek dig isnt my only proof but you do realize they have dated their finds to 16,500BP correct placing it 2,500 years before clovis culture clearly defining an earlier start then we thought. Also anyone living there would have followed the rivers up to that point from mexico making them pass our ranch.

Also where we are is directly on the trail from mexico into south Texas(even still today) with a huge cash of chert and flint with a flowing river and lots of game. It appears we are easily into the 8,000BP and much older, the Guadalupe tools are proof of that. granted there is still another big chunk of time I will need to prove but this is the very early stages. I want to make sure I am labeling and dating things correctly so that when I go back and perform a better dig I can be more knowledgeable as for what I should be looking for. One odd thing is we only seem to find tools, No arrow heads yet in three quick hunts each only an hour long and only on the surface.

The entire land was clear cut in the 1800's and has been plowed many times so artifacts are scattered amongst each other making dating difficult.

A friend of mine sent pics and info on the hand axe to the new york state museum and short of saying they would need me to ship it to them they did say it "appeared" to be at least early paleo which could still mean clovis. If you can send me a link on hand axes that I could match it to and what period they were used that would be very helpful. However again no one seems to have a hand axe like this outside of early stages in Texas. Again please prove me wrong I would appreciate the info.

As one last fact, the indians that are possiblypreclovis would have definitly been on our trail coming out of Mexico.... All things align to a maybe.... Possibly,,,, Go look....

 

[rbpwrd240]

The grindstone I would also consider natural based on the images. The scraper I would classify as debitage. I would agree with you on your assessment of the Perdiz.

Im ging to see if I can get you better images. The scrapper is definitly not debutage as it has two clear areas where it has been worked and it its the hand way to well. Its even an ambi scrapper. The grind stone may be natural but Id like you to take a second look at more photos so you can see the edge and the wear better.