Help Needed - New Find

[Badger Bart]

Cooper42, welcome and good luck in your endeavor. You might start with the blue plate sold to a collector, it could well tell you what sort of wreck is imvolved. Gets the facts from your father down on paper if possible, then do the same with his friend who verified the find. Try to locate the collector who bought the plate and rsearch it. Hope that helps.

 

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[Peg Leg]

Well my friends all the advise in the world is good to a point and there has been what I consider some sound advise but lets cut to the chase before all the broadsides start. It is up to cooper42 to make up his/her own mind and I will put this as blunt as I can SOMEONE WILL DISCOVER THIS WRECK ONE DAY and if you do not decide what you want to do then not get a thing and this I can GUARANTEE 100%.
Peg Leg.
My cannons are loaded and ready to fire.

 

[mariner]

Doc,

Re your reply #28 (In essence it has been interpreted to mean that Spanish wrecks in U.S. water preceding the treaty belong to the Spanish Government)

I should point out that the 1902 Treaty specifically covers Spanish wrecks in US waters "whether belonging to the State or private individuals". The wrecks of ships that were privately owned at the time of sinking do not belong to the Spanish Government, but to the rightful heirs and successors of the then-owner, unless title passed to a body such as an insurance company as a result of some kind of claim or settlement.

Mariner

 

[diggummup]

Good Morning Doc,

I have to assume that a "troll" is obviously an insult. I do not know you so I am surprised at this remark. At first I was a little angry over your comment but now I think I understand a little better where you are coming from. I have signed more disclosure statements than I care to remember on behalf of the salvors requests. These disclosures still bind me from talking about wrecks I worked on 10 years ago even though most of the salvage companies went belly up. I do have some friendly advice for you; I have never met you or seen you in the field so I cannot say if you have been involved in this game for 2 years or 20. The world of treasure hunting is very small. The world of State and NPS persons who actually help the treasure hunter's cause and OK applications are even smaller. Do not insult the academic people who try to help salvors no matter what "bad" experiences people have had with the state archaeologists or conservators.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors.

C

I assumed, when asked by a third party to supply the questioner with a definition of "Troll" that it was an insult directed at myself. If I was wrong I do apologize.

Doc

If? welcome coop-good luck on your endeavor,I wish you the best.Keep every detail as close to you as possible. Don't divulge anything until you've covered all your bases.Conservator-its good to know your still with us.Your one of the only archies that is on our side from what i've read in the past.So the next time i'm in Sarasota,i'll try and look you up.Good research mariner.Good luck again cooper.

 

[cooper42]

Sincere thanks for all the help, guys! Y'all are a trip to watch in action. Anyway, I'll be offline for the next few days while I'm deciding what to do with this find. I'll be gathering details about it, and if I can pass along any info or news when I get back, I will.

Once again, thanks, and I'll catch y'all later.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

diving doc

TROLLS are internet surfers whose sole purpose is to disrupt and antagonize people who are seriously engaged in searching for answers
******
I am not Doc, I am just a modern Till Eulenspiegle.

snicker

Tropical tramp
.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

diving docWe all know that Jose.
*******
&([:>D )-=======+ doc!

p.s. nice to have one's work appreciated even by you, snicker

El Saint Tropical Tramp

 

[Peg Leg]

Question
What if the ship that cooper42 is talking about was a PIRATE SHIP?
Peg Leg

 

[wreckdiver1715]

If it's a Pirate ship it's fair game, but permits are still required as long as it's in Florida waters. Now this is were the research that we talk about comes in. If you can find good documentation that a Pirate ship met it's fate at that location, then you could make the case that it is not a warship of any nation covered by one of the treaties, or that pesky UNESCO crap.

Q

 

[Peg Leg]

I am in agreement. The first thing that has to be done is to recover a few artifacts and go from there. Most Pirate ships were stolen but they also had different cannons stolen from other ships they sunk. This is a clue is it not?
Then is the type of cargo it was carrying which I believe may still there considering the fact this wreck is still in the mud AND the fact that there are NO records that show a Spanish ship went down anywhere near the West coast of Florida. If it did there was no one left to tell the tale. The Indians on the West Coast were BAD to the bone.
But again lets look at the Hurricanes of the past. Most that entered the Gulf Of Mexico would turn toward the East. If a ship was caught up in the storm it would be driven toward the East.
A lot of research IS required.
Peg Leg

 

[Peg Leg]

Thanks Doc,
This opens up a different approch that I feel must be done before anything else is done or CAN be done.
Peg Leg

 

[Badger Bart]

Doc... So at this point it matters very little who's ship it was when it sank, correct? The necessary paperwork must be in place before anything alse can be done lawfully. I understand now that the plate artifact found and sold years ago may or may not indicate anything as to the ship's origin, but it is a start, and will at least indicate an age of some sort. And it is something to do while the bureaucrats waste money and do their job of shuffling papers and flapping gums. If you were in his shoes, what else would you do at this point?

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Well said Doc, Most treasure hunters will take the high road in these matters. However, it only takes one more diver on the Treasure Coast to make life harder on the honest law abiding folks.

 

[Peg Leg]

The first thing that has to be done is to get a PERMIT to explore the area and once you have that then you try to estiblish who owned the ship to begin with.
Am I correct?
Peg Leg

 

[diggummup]

I was just wondering,if this is or was a rogue pirate ship how does one go about establishing an identification without a dive to the actual wreck for some type of clue to its past or its cargo? Where does he go to get the proper permits? How much money is involved in the permit process? This is out of my league.

 

[cooper42]

OK, guys,

I'm about to move forward on this and am getting a little nervous about protecting myself. You guys say not to sign papers unless you meet and trust the people who you're doing business with. I've been talking with one of you and am on the brink of committing to a deal, but the problem is that since I'm so new to the scene, I don't trust anybody (nothing personal, you-know-who, since I do trust you somewhat). I feel like signing a deal while still having a few reservations is better than waiting and losing everything.

I know that's not much information, but do y'all have any further thoughts on this whole non-disclosure dillemma? The only realistic way for me to move forward is to disclose the location, but how likely is it that once I do this I'll be bulldozed by imprecise language in the contract, etc.? I know that it comes down to the person I'm doing business with, and I guess I'm stuck in some circular reasoning...

Maybe one of you might have a sample ND/NC contract that I could review to see if it matches the one that I've already seen? I've suggested modifications, but I still feel that I'm missing so many things.

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

[spez401]

cooper, If you want a general copy of a non-disclosure agreement, send me a pm or an email, and i'll get you a sample copy. But as previously stated, they do need to be fairly specific. I'll be happy to help you out on that end, but i also think the previous suggestion of contacting wreckdiver is a good one.
steve

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Cooper42, I sent you a lengthy PM concerning this matter.

To all else, Unless you have all the resources needed to conduct a shipwreck search and salvage mission. I would strongly suggest that you contact a Maritime Lawyer before you sign or do anything, or before giving the location of the wreck to anyone, and that goes double for the attorney (nothing personal to our attorney friends on TNet).

 

[Peg Leg]

CONSERVATOR,
I am in need of your services.
Please contact me by pm and lets talk.
Thanks
Peg Leg