✅ SOLVED Help with mid 1800s farm house Pendant or Pin

[deadbird.81]

Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I found this Sunday at a mid to late 1800s farm house. My buddy also found one but it was bent in half. Theres a clean spot in it where I rubber it with a cloth and soap. That spot looks to be silver or maybe pewter. There is a crook and key crossed over a bundle of hay theres also a sickle. Any help would be appreciated.
Before cleaning

After cleaning

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I realize this is all conjecture on my part. But I just can't help but wonder why such a similar image would show up on Grant's ribbon when the Grange was only about four months old and still wet behind the ears? So if there is a possibility that the wheat image on Grant's ribbon wasn't aimed at the Grange, then where did it come from, and why? Or was it just a generic farm image? Heck, maybe the Grange stole the idea from Grant? So many questions, so few answers!

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with everyone. I thought it was kind of interesting.

SBB

All good questions but you realize the image on Grants ribbon does not match the image on the OPs item. We only have one image match so far and that is the Memoriam ribbon that they appear to have made millions of them. I would like to know what clues members want to connect the OPs item to a coffin or a graveyard find other than the words "In Memoriam" and possibly a sideways logo?

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I found this: What does the sheath of wheat represent at a funeral?
Sheaf of wheat is symbolic of the harvest. Death, in many cultures is known as the reaper, the harvester of souls. The wheat has been harvested and so has the dead persons soul

I guess there may be a connection. These memorium pins were probably worn by every member, put on flowers possibly, even pinned to the chest or coffin of the deceased. I think its more likely (at this point)that several family members returned from a Grange funeral than to think that the OP has dug up an old cemetary. But its only my opinion and everyone has one.

 

[deadbird.81]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

This item was found 40yds from the back door. Also there is a outhouse 15 yards above where it was found. I don't believe we were in a cemetary or near coffins. It was only 4 inches down. Someone mentioned to me that possibly these were used to seal grain bags or seed bags??

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Cy ~

I agree about the best match so far as being that of mojjax's ribbon. The only reason I mention the Grant ribbon again is to point out that the likelyhood of it being in any way connected or aimed at the Grange is very slim. The Patrons of Husbandry were so new at the time, indications are they probably weren't organized enough yet to even have an official symbol. So what I am suggesting is, it is more likely that the Grange adapted the idea from Grant than Grant adapting the idea from the Grange.

I like doing little side histories like this because it can oftentimes produce a clue of some kind that might not have been uncovered otherwise. And because of this, I even support deadbird's idea somewhat of the pin possibly being intended for something other than an ornament. I feel that thinking outside of the box is what will eventually solve this riddle. With my latest re-worded guess being ...

"Grange Mourning Ribbon Pin"

Gracias'

SOAPBOXBOB

 

[mojjax]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Hey Bob, the package of stuff arrived . I love it .
I'm heading out the door to go boating - when I get home , I'll post some pics to show everyone what you sent me . Thanks so much for your kindness

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

This item was found 40yds from the back door. Also there is a outhouse 15 yards above where it was found. I don't believe we were in a cemetary or near coffins. It was only 4 inches down. Someone mentioned to me that possibly these were used to seal grain bags or seed bags??

Since this is mid to late 1800's farm house and Grange started in 1867, I would think its Grange related but we cant prove it. The only other possibility is a pre-Grange item and Grange later assumed the logo for Memoriam ribbons.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

An idea popped into my head this morning that might lead to something or it might just be another wild goose chase. So if any of you are so inclined and think it is worth researching, please take a look around and see what you can find. I have only skimmed the surface on this idea so far, and could use a little help.

It partly involves my comment earlier about the item seeming "really big" for use as a typical ribbon pin. That's when I decided to take a closer look at some of the pictures I had saved and discovered that Grange members, especially officers, often wore more than one kind of ribbon. In the pictures that follow you will see examples of Grange members wearing what are called shoulder "sashes" like those worn today by Miss America candidates.

I'm not sure how these sashes were attached, whether they were tied or secured with a pin, but I wonder if our mystery pin had something to do with them? I discovered these sashes were primarily worn by officers, but, as you will see in the pictures below, were also worn by youth members.

So what do you think - out of the box - or out of my mind?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

And just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water, here's another out of the (cereal) box, and into the "bowl" mystery I stumbled onto. This may very well refute my earlier theory about the "sideways" image being death related. That is, unless the sideways image on this bowl represents a "mourning bowl" of some kind? But who ever heard of one of those? I haven't!



The only thing I know about this bowl is that it was made by "The Carr China Company."

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Lastly ...

If all else fails, maybe it would help to contact these folks. Surely they know a thing or two.

National Grange President: Ed Luttrell

National Grange of the Order of the Patrons of Husbandry
1616 H Street NW, Washington, DC 20006
(888) 4-GRANGE - (202) 628-3507 - Fax: (202) 347-1091

E-mail the National Grange

Visit National Grange's Website: www.nationalgrange.org

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

After being granted permission by deadbird.81 to do so, I have contacted the National Grange Organization with an inquiry about the item, along with several pictures of it. I will let everyone know what they have to say if/when I hear back from them.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Here is the copy/pasted inquiry I sent to the National Grange Organization, which included three attached pictures.

SBB

Hi ~

Attached are pictures of an item found at what was said to be a mid to late 1800s homestead. It appears to be Grange related, but I am just not sure. I was hoping you might recognize it and help identify it. If so, anything you can tell me about it, including what it was used for and when it might have been made, would be very much appreciated.

It is described as follows ... (Also, please see attached pictures).

1. It's made of some kind of thin, but as yet unidentified metal.
2. It measures 2 5/8" long x 7/8" wide at the widest points.
3. On the backside is what appears to be the remains of a clasp/pin.
4. The image on the front is of a wheat sheave - sickle - key - shepherd's crook.
5. It was found in corroded condition.

The three attachments are ...

1. Front before cleaning.
2. Front after cleaning.
3. Backside with clasp/pin remains.

If you have any questions about it, please contact me.

Thank you in advance for your time and interest regarding my inquiry. If you do recognize the item, and happen to have a picture of one in your photo archives, that would be fantastic for me to see also!


(Signed appropriately with my full name and address).

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

After being granted permission by deadbird.81 to do so, I have contacted the National Grange Organization with an inquiry about the item, along with several pictures of it. I will let everyone know what they have to say if/when I hear back from them.

SBB

Thats a great idea. I hope they have a historian. I think finding the bowl was also good work. It kinda fortifies the theory that this image is Grange related.

Its easy to give up but I see you are still working on it. I hope it produces a happy ending with a positive ID.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I haven't heard from the Grange people yet, but am hopeful of that occuring in the next day or two. In the meantime I did a little research on the Carr China Company of Grafton, W. Virginia, and discovered they were established in 1916 and closed in 1952. Which tells us that the sideways wheat image was still be used as late as 1916 by some Grange organization somewhere. This doesn't necessarily date deadbird.81's item, but it does suggest the "possibility" that it may not be as old as we think. Here is a snippet about the Carr China history ...

Carr China 1916-1952

Under Thomas Carr’s leadership, Carr China made vitrified China for hotels, restaurants, institutions, clubs, hospitals, steamships and the military. Its thick, rolled edge China was available in both banquet white and decorated with under-glaze line treatments, prints, crests, monograms, decals and custom designs.

Carr China Link: http://www.carrchinacompany.com/history.html

 

[Bramblefind]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Here's an interesting ribbon attachment - unfortunately the pic is so small.

http://www.museum.wabash.il.us/clubs grange.html

Below: Patrons of Husbandry Ribbons are show left. At right, Illustrations of titles for officers badge bars for the Patrons of Husbandry, Grange. Each office had a symbol, as illustrated.

The craftsmanship of pieces of jewelry used to adorn club members speaks of an age of craftsmen gone by. Each item seems to be a work of art and was clearly worn with pride for the organization. Grange club members could order their ribbons, charms, and pins. These illustrations are all taken from a National Grange catalog and from an 1884 B.N. Norris & Co. jewelry catalog (donated by Marge McCullough).

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Its pretty close to the shape considering its an artists drawing.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

And here is a full image comparison ...

Bramblefind's find has a P and H on the ends. I can't quite make out the center part.

{P ( ? ) H}

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

And here is a full image comparison ...

Bramblefind's find has a P and H on the ends. I can't quite make out the center part.

{P ( ? ) H}

Yea its not the same. Only similar in shape.

From Bramblefinds link. I wish I could see and read the third symbol down. The B.N. Norris & Co. jewelry catalog, where Grange club members could order their ribbons, charms, and pins, may solve this. Does that say "Grange Button-Hole Emblems and Pins"?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

Cy ~

The word "buttonhole" threw me off for a minute, but I'm sure it does say what you indicated. Which probably had a cufflink type of clasp or solid button on the back for a tight fit.

I don't want to confuse the issue, but thought I would show the two pictures below anyway, as they may help connect some of the dots later. The first picture is from Bramblefind's link where it shows some P of H items in a display case. The second picture is a close up of a "similar" item, and is described as follows ...

~ * ~

LARGE & ELABORATE FRATERNAL BADGE - PATRONS OF HUSBANDRY “P. of H.” Formed in 1867. Related to the Grange and concerned with service to rural communities. Heavy badge, gilded brass, 3 ¾” tall. Two piece. Top bar has oak leaves flanking the pierced letters “PH”. The pendant has a large frame with the surface made to look like a tree trunk with bark on it. Inside are the entwined letters “GK” with the same surface. GK stands for Gate Keeper, which is an officer's position. Badge appears to date C. 1900, and is quite scarce among fraternal badges.

It's possible the square frame was generic and they attached a specific emblem later according to whatever level of "degree" was achieved.

Note: Since I/we have been unable to find an exact picture of the item, my latest phase of research involves possible "worded" descriptions and/or just about anything that ties in a date for various items. (I've had to decipline myself lately and limit my research to no more than about an hour a day - this stuff is addicting).

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I fully realize that "opinion polls" are never considered positive identifications. But if a poll were taken, I have to believe the resulting "majority opinon" would be that the item in question is some type of ...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Grange pin.

If so, then all we have left is to fill in the missing blanks. Which is still the $64.00 question!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Help with mid 1800's farm house Pendant or Pin

I actually stumbled onto this the other day, but as I wanted to check it out first, I decided to keep it to myself until now. But as it turns out, my computer and I just don't do very well with having to download pdf/document type files. In fact, I hate them! But if someone else has more patience and the proper software to deal with this sort of thing, the following link will open to a 1894 Grange catalog. The top picture below is an example from a similar one. I was directed to the site while searching for antique Grange jewelry and similar items. So I know there is a jewelry section in it somewhere. The problem is, I just don't have what it takes to view it. Maybe someone else would like to try it and see if our mystery pin is in the catalog somewhere. If so, please let us know what you find, if anything.

The bottom pisture is of a 1926 Grange catalog. The answer to our mystery may be in one of those old catalogs. If I/we can just figure out how to access the contents.



Thanks.

SBB

Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/33873476/1894-Grange-Wholesale-Supply-Catalogue