Hit it hard on Native Silver - field trip

meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Just got back from a weekend detecting in Northern Ontario for silver. It was really hot - both in temperature and results.

On the way up, I dropped into an old gold/silver/copper mine that was hand mined in the early 1900s. I had tried to find it once before - typical problem is the location info is not accurate in the mining reports. This time, while I did not find the main mine, I stumbled across a shallow trench and tailings in the woods. All of the rock was dark brown stained with minor amounts of quartz and calcite - the majority were hot rocks. It did not look like it had been detected before (no holes). With the Gold Bug, I found 4 large rocks that I thought worth further investigation and humped them back to the truck. When I smashed one at the site, I could see/smell the chalcopyrite. I will play with them more at home.

I arrived at my final destination with about 2 hours of daylight remaining and went directly to a silver mine that I had detected once before. It is the most dangerous spot that I know. The hillside is laced with deep trenches and shafts, "protected" by crisscrossing woven wire fencing that is mostly rotted and collapsed. Beside each of these deep holes are piles of loose tailings where one miss-step could result in a slide and a "bad day". Of course, my dog Daisy busted a partridge and decided to chase it up. Luckily, she is a good dog and listened when I called her back.

I detected around one 100' high tailings pile with poor results, so climbed to the top where there were the remains of a number of old structures. One must have been a refinery because the tailings nearby were mixed with small pieces of slag. Slag are the true "uglies", but some actually seem to contain silver. From my last trip, I had sliced one that the detector loved and it appeared to be solid silver inside. I found about a dozen similar this time for the collection pouch. I was mostly detecting on exposed bedrock, looking for smaller-shallow items and got a few 1-3 inch rocks with silver and nickel (green stain). These little guys are heavy and give a great bang on the detector when shallow. On my way out before the sun set, I got a screamer. It was a very strange looking thing from about a foot down. It looks like a concrete homemade anchor, except this looks to be melted silver (instead of lime) with chunks of 3/4 crush. It is about 8 inches wide with a smooth rounded bottom of solid metal. I am thinking it was from a large crucible.

The next day's plan was to meet Sheldon later in the morning at the same site, which gave me an opportunity to explore/scout a different location that I had mapped out. I don't think I found the correct road for the mine, but noticed a trail to a hunt camp where they had used mine tailings to fill in the low spots. Out came the detector and between the road and edge of the private property, I found 8 pieces of high grade silver. The largest was perhaps 5 pounds and some of the other was solid chunks of pure silver vein material. Most of it was right on the surface and required no digging! This must be what it was like to be the first guy with a metal detector. Of course, there was some junk like tin and blasting caps, but what a joy! Just before leaving, an old fellow stopped who thought I was bear hunting and gave permission. So, off to see Sheldon...

I got to the mine site and there was Sheldon carrying out a 30 lb rock containing a nice vein of silver. I was so excited about my new spot and there he was doing spectacular on a chuck of ground that I had previously walked by at least 4 times. All of the targets in that area were deep, so we exhausted ourselves until the afternoon digging both junk and silver. I put on my Go Pro after getting two nice rocks and prior to digging the next good signal. I will post the video:

to be continued.
 

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cryptic

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Happy holidays everyone! It was great being able to detect up to almost the end of December. I think the snow is here to stay now. Hit a few mine sites a while ago and was fortunate to discover some nice samples including this 12 pound dendritic native silver in calcite piece.

IMAG1512_1.jpg
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Way to go! That is a great rock. What a way to finish the season. I am sorry to hear it is over. I already have cabin fever
 

Jim Hemmingway

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Season's Greetings Sheldon... that is a very handsome and rich native silver specimen... we don't see much silver like that nowadays. Congratulations and a hearty whack on the shoulder are in order... betcha it was a happy moment when that piece surfaced. Good creamy white calcite too!!! YEEEHAWWWW!!!! :D

Jim.
 

cryptic

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Thanks! Here are a couple of pieces from the same spot as the last picture I posted. It is the same dendritic silver. About 10 pounds. The smaller piece has a drill hole going up the side of it .We had considerable winds the other day and I am saddened to say that the the top of the Lawson shaft has finally come down. Very unfortunate that these historic mines are not being preserved.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

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Jan 26, 2008
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Sheldon... two comments... re: the Lawson property... the only option that occurs to me is to contact the local historical society. They may be interested in a remediation project if they have the wherewithal to do anything about it. It may be beyond their reach, but might be worth a phone call.

Outstanding silver you’ve posted above, anyone would be very happy to include those two samples into their personal collection. It makes the commitment, the time and effort all worthwhile when such pieces surface. Not only fine examples of dendritic structure, but just loaded with good purity silver. Congratulations Sheldon, you earn and deserve these results… well done. :icon_thumleft:

Jim.
 

Lanny in AB

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Jim - thanks for the info. Last time I used acid, I was impatient and destroyed the samples. I have some good pieces to try to clean up and since I have all winter, will take my time.

I was playing with some of the smaller silver that the Gold Bug sniffed out. Here is just under 3 oz of nuggets that I cleaned up a little bit:
View attachment 1252348


View attachment 1252347


View attachment 1252346

I'm loving this thread! It looks like you had a great time chasing the silver!!

Thanks for the pictures, videos and write-ups. You've done a fantastic job.

All the best,

Lanny
 

Lanny in AB

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Apr 2, 2003
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Thanks! Here are a couple of pieces from the same spot as the last picture I posted. It is the same dendritic silver. About 10 pounds. The smaller piece has a drill hole going up the side of it .We had considerable winds the other day and I am saddened to say that the the top of the Lawson shaft has finally come down. Very unfortunate that these historic mines are not being preserved.

Wow!! Booyahh!!!

You're livin' the silver hunter's dream for sure.

All the best,

Lanny
 

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meMiner

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I found this video, taken by drone over a the Townsite Mine in Cobalt Ontario, which as its name implies is right on the edge of town (arguably within the town). I have never detected here, but think I might see Sheldon's footprints in the snow? LOL
 

cryptic

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Nice video! The road beside the mine headframe collapsed +15 years or so ago. They called it the worlds largest pothole. I'm surprised the whole town hasn't collapsed yet from all the tunnels underneath it .

I don't think they are my footprints because there are no detecting holes along the way but if you check out Google maps you can find my truck in two different metal detecting spots at the same time. 3 if you count my old driveway .
 

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meMiner

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This picture is 1.4 OZ of what I thought was polished native silver, with the idea that these unique pieces are suitable for jewelry. The long narrow one is nickel, silver and dolomite. The crazy thing is the fat smooth one acid tests as 80% silver and platinum. The black and silver nugget acid tests as platinum. I will have to get a second opinion before I get too excited...

Native Silver Nugget 2.JPG native silver nugget 1.JPG
 

Lanny in AB

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Let us know what you find out, you've got me interested to know the results.

All the best,

Lanny
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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I am still learning, but here is what I have found so far and any corrections or additional info are very welcome.

There are 3 tests that can be done at home (ignoring the specific gravity test):

The simple one is called the ice test. Very fun. Take a piece of silver at room temperature and place it on an ice cube. Silver will melt an ice cube quickly. When you pick up the silver afterwards, it is freezing to the touch. I tried this with copper, silver, gold and platinum scraps and the silver melt was noticeably faster than the other metals. Of the three pieces in the picture, the one with a mix of metals/dolomite was definitely slower. The other two acted like silver should.

The second test is acid. I was using acids from a kit that was designed to test jewelry (to confirm silver, platinum, 10kt/14kt/18kt or 22kt gold). It takes about 30 seconds (max) to get a result. You can either file a sample (tiny file was provided in the kit) or scratch the item on black slate (provided in the kit). The silver test works well to differentiate a high content silver ring from junk (eg stainless or copper), by looking at the color change in the drop of acid (from the bottle it starts as a dark amber). In my test, the acid turned the stainless streak a clear green and copper a blue, whereas 925 silver turned bright red. Less silver content should be light or dark brown. Gold and platinum did not cause a change color. Then I tried my samples from the picture above and they were much more difficult to access - I think the resulting color was dark to light brown-ish. Warning - I find it easy to confuse any nuggets containing some nickel, because that turns the solution green. There is an additional white napkin test, where you dab the remaining acid and I especially like this test. The dab was light brown on the napkin and in seconds turned clear with some red specs that I could see with a jeweler's optic (ie. what is not silver goes clear, and what is silver is a bright red minute spec). Next I tried the platinum test. On a silver ring, the acid immediately dissolved the streak on the plate (it just disappeared). There was not change in the platinum streak. Just for fun, I put this acid onto some calcite and it bubbled and disappeared. So the million $ question: what happened when I used the platinum acid on the streak from the nuggets in the picture? The streak somewhat disappeared but not completely. My conclusion - (1) I still need a second opinion. (2) for sure there is silver, but not sure the % because color is a bit subjective. (3) these items may have some amount of platinum (the portion of the streak that that did not dissolve) OR my acid is old and not as effective as it should be. I suspect at the end of the day that this is indicative, but not conclusive, when testing ore or nugget.

The third test is fire. It may ruin the sample. Hear up the nugget with a torch to red hot and observe the reaction. Silver will melt at 962 C but platinum needs 1,768 C. Also, platinum will not change color from the heat. I have not yet tried this test because I have to pick a few item to sacrifice - I am guessing they will melt and not tell me what the mix of metals is. More important, I should wait until my wife is out of the house for a while. LOL

Next steps - get some fresh acid and test a large number of samples. If I can find one or more that streak test high in platinum/palladium, try the heat test. However, once I am done "playing around", get a VRF spectrograph test and a jeweler to acid test to confirm my results. If my playing makes a good video, I will post it.

P.S. Since I did my initial tests, I have learned that you can also check for palladium with the 22kt gold kit. If the item is palladium, the streak will turn yellow. If it is 22-24kt gold, no change. If it is something else, the streak will disappear. Something else for me to do and my hypothesis is it will go yellow then clear, leaving me guessing if I have a low amount of palladium or just high hope...LOL
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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I had read about the ice cube test on silver and tried it out myself:

 

Lanny in AB

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Apr 2, 2003
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I am still learning, but here is what I have found so far and any corrections or additional info are very welcome.

There are 3 tests that can be done at home (ignoring the specific gravity test):

The simple one is called the ice test. Very fun. Take a piece of silver at room temperature and place it on an ice cube. Silver will melt an ice cube quickly. When you pick up the silver afterwards, it is freezing to the touch. I tried this with copper, silver, gold and platinum scraps and the silver melt was noticeably faster than the other metals. Of the three pieces in the picture, the one with a mix of metals/dolomite was definitely slower. The other two acted like silver should.

The second test is acid. I was using acids from a kit that was designed to test jewelry (to confirm silver, platinum, 10kt/14kt/18kt or 22kt gold). It takes about 30 seconds (max) to get a result. You can either file a sample (tiny file was provided in the kit) or scratch the item on black slate (provided in the kit). The silver test works well to differentiate a high content silver ring from junk (eg stainless or copper), by looking at the color change in the drop of acid (from the bottle it starts as a dark amber). In my test, the acid turned the stainless streak a clear green and copper a blue, whereas 925 silver turned bright red. Less silver content should be light or dark brown. Gold and platinum did not cause a change color. Then I tried my samples from the picture above and they were much more difficult to access - I think the resulting color was dark to light brown-ish. Warning - I find it easy to confuse any nuggets containing some nickel, because that turns the solution green. There is an additional white napkin test, where you dab the remaining acid and I especially like this test. The dab was light brown on the napkin and in seconds turned clear with some red specs that I could see with a jeweler's optic (ie. what is not silver goes clear, and what is silver is a bright red minute spec). Next I tried the platinum test. On a silver ring, the acid immediately dissolved the streak on the plate (it just disappeared). There was not change in the platinum streak. Just for fun, I put this acid onto some calcite and it bubbled and disappeared. So the million $ question: what happened when I used the platinum acid on the streak from the nuggets in the picture? The streak somewhat disappeared but not completely. My conclusion - (1) I still need a second opinion. (2) for sure there is silver, but not sure the % because color is a bit subjective. (3) these items may have some amount of platinum (the portion of the streak that that did not dissolve) OR my acid is old and not as effective as it should be. I suspect at the end of the day that this is indicative, but not conclusive, when testing ore or nugget.

The third test is fire. It may ruin the sample. Hear up the nugget with a torch to red hot and observe the reaction. Silver will melt at 962 C but platinum needs 1,768 C. Also, platinum will not change color from the heat. I have not yet tried this test because I have to pick a few item to sacrifice - I am guessing they will melt and not tell me what the mix of metals is. More important, I should wait until my wife is out of the house for a while. LOL

Next steps - get some fresh acid and test a large number of samples. If I can find one or more that streak test high in platinum/palladium, try the heat test. However, once I am done "playing around", get a VRF spectrograph test and a jeweler to acid test to confirm my results. If my playing makes a good video, I will post it.

P.S. Since I did my initial tests, I have learned that you can also check for palladium with the 22kt gold kit. If the item is palladium, the streak will turn yellow. If it is 22-24kt gold, no change. If it is something else, the streak will disappear. Something else for me to do and my hypothesis is it will go yellow then clear, leaving me guessing if I have a low amount of palladium or just high hope...LOL

Nice write-up! I'd never heard of the ice cube test before, so you've added something to my brain's cache that I'll keep filed away. Thanks.

Is the youtube video yours?

All the best,

Lanny
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Port Perry, Ontario
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Yes. I made the video last night in my kitchen, rather than sleeping...
 

Lanny in AB

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Apr 2, 2003
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Yes. I made the video last night in my kitchen, rather than sleeping...

Nicely done, although the lack of sleep might not have been refreshing.:)

All the best,

Lanny
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Port Perry, Ontario
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Last fall, on my last day detecting, I pulled out the Minelab and the 11" DD Commander Coil. I had tried on a previous trip to use a 23" Tarantula Mono (AKA the beast) and the large amount of junk made it unworkable. In this spot, I had detected for a few hours with the Gold Bug and was not finding anything other than some hot rocks. Here was my set up:
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Port Perry, Ontario
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Some small rocks that got sliced to see what was inside
 

Lanny in AB

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Apr 2, 2003
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Both videos are great! Thanks for the settings on the 5000 for working trashy areas for larger, deep targets as well.

The silver you've cut will make beautiful pieces. Are you planning to do jewelry mountings?

All the best,

Lanny
 

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meMiner

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Jul 22, 2014
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Port Perry, Ontario
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Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
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I have not done much with my nicer silver samples. I have a wall display in my office that holds a few. I have given away a number of pieces as gifts, including some to the science dept at my daughter's school. Other than that, I have only played with them. My wife is not much interested in silver, so she would not be keen on jewelry. She still prefers gold. LOL
 

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