HMS Fantome...

[jeff k]

Treasure hunt or modern-day pirates?
globalnational.com
Monday, August 21, 2006


PROSPECT, Nova Scotia -- Somewhere along the rocky coastline of Prospect, near Halifax, is an enduring mystery.

The wreck of HMS Fantome -- a British naval ship that ran aground in 1814 -- is said to hold within its watery grave a treasure believed to be worth a billion dollars: artifacts stolen from the White House after the British burning of Washington during the War of 1812.

Nearly 200 years later, a team of U.S. treasure hunters is intensifying a search that's been going on for years -- a hunt that's drawing as much controversy as it is intrigue, as critics raises concerns over potential damage to Nova Scotia's marine history.

"It's an American company who is in the business of extracting artifacts from shipwrecks for profit, " said John W. Chisholm, a documentary film-maker who is lobbying the Nova Scotia government to ban for-profit treasure hunting. "I don't think it's the way to go."

Others wonder if a billion-dollar treasure really exists.

"Personally, I've never seen anything that tells me there's a billion dollars worth of treasure out there," said Greg Cochkanoff, a shipwreck diver who several trips to the Fantome's debris field.

He doubts that a big pay-day is at the bottom of the sea-bed, waiting to be discovered -- but at the same time -- defends the right of treasure hunters to explore.

The investment company that is bank-rolling the treasure hunt says its team is currently surveying the ocean floor, and notes that "the site contains ships predating 1814, and will contribute to responsible, high-quality archeology and the eventual recovery of this historically significant project."

 

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[AA23]

hmm aparently u and wreckdiver have the same taste in news reports jeff lol

 

[jeff k]

N.S. shipwreck discovery brews international storm
Published: Thursday, September 21, 2006

An American shipwreck hunter has found "thousands of coins" and other artifacts at a site off the coast of Nova Scotia where a War of 1812 gunboat thought to be carrying White House plunder sank in a storm on its return to Canada after the ransacking of Washington.

But the discovery, the strongest sign yet that Philadelphia-based Sovereign Exploration Associates may have discovered the remains of the legendary British frigate HMS Fantome or other ships from its fleet, sets the stage for a possible international legal showdown involving the salvage company, the British government and heritage officials in Canada and the U.S. over the future of the wreck site.

CanWest News Service has learned the British government has asked Canada to halt exploration at the possible Fantome site and insisted that nothing should be taken from the area without permission from London.

Wendy Barnable, a spokesperson with the Nova Scotia government's Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Heritage, said Wednesday the province has received a letter, via federal officials in Ottawa, in which Britain argues that the Fantome -- along with a sunken 18th-century British treasure ship, HMS Tilbury, also being sought by Sovereign off the Cape Breton coast -- "remain the property of the British government and can't be disturbed without their consent."

Describing the British intervention as unprecedented, Barnable said provincial heritage officials are studying the "very complex" issue and have, in the meantime, advised the U.S. salvager to seek British approval to continue its explorations.

In a statement announcing its latest finds, Sovereign said: "Our divers observed flatware, artifacts, ship fittings and thousands of coins. While our science team has not positively identified the vessels on the site, the new data combined with last year's recoveries . . . clearly establish the site as one of significant historical importance."

The search for the Fantome has been controversial and jurisdictionally complex because the British wreck lies in Canadian waters but is believed to hold gold and other treasures looted during a famous 1814 raid on the White House, treasury headquarters and other buildings in the U.S. capital. The same naval operation also inspired the "bombs bursting in air" imagery of The Star-Spangled Banner, the U.S. national anthem.

 

[sendin]

I guess I'm not alone when it comes to the outrage I feel when some partnership of investors and salvagers takes all the risks and expense, find some sunken ship only to be hounded and harrassed by government entities. They move in on the guise of archeaology and cultural preservation, but oddly, it seems only on ships that allegedly contain gold and coins. I am inclined not to give them the benefit of doubt because in almost all cases they act like parasites.

 

[ScubaFinder]

What a connundrem, a British Ship, laying in Canadian waters, holding stolen US treasure, artifacts and historical relics. Am I the only one who finds it odd that the Brits would lay claim to artifacts they plundered from the US White house? The whole situation is almost laughable, but tragic at the same time.

Will treasure hunters and governments ever come to an understanding? I see both sides of the issue, and agree that especially on a wreck like this, that archeological procedures MUST be followed, and historical relics need to be properly preserved and displayed. It sounds as though the salvors have made provisions for this, so why not let a Govt. Archeologist get involved (at the states expense), keep the historical stuff for museums, and let the salvors take the bulk of the gold for their efforts. It would be so simple if we didn't have to get lawyers involved...the bane of US society IMO. It seems some Govt. officials would rather see it rot on the bottom of the ocean rather than let a salvor who's put thousands of dollars and hours into finding the stuff have any of it. How stupid are we as a society

< / rant >

Jason

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Jason,
I freel the same way about Spanish Galleons. Here are Spanish ships wrecked in American waters filled with treasure stolen from native Americans who they enslaved and killed to get the treasure. A new book by Charles C. Mann, '1491' reveals that the native population in the Americas was close to 100 million. They had bigger cities than in Europe with running water, botanical gardens and immaculately clean streets. How can Spain claim these wrecks as theirs?

 

[jeff k]

Possible White House loot at centre of shipwreck dispute

By ALISON AULD

HALIFAX (CP) — A stash of loot possibly stolen from the White House in the early 1800s is at the centre of an international dispute over who owns the bounty that now rests in a watery grave off the Nova Scotia coast.

An American exploration company has laid claim to the bounty on what it suspects is the HMS Fantome, a navy brig that was loaded with goods British and Canadian soldiers made off with after ransacking the White House and Capitol buildings during the War of 1812.

The company, Sovereign Exploration Associates International Inc., has conducted dives on the site off Prospect, N.S., and planned to recover some of the thousands of coins and other historic artifacts it has seen on the ocean floor.

But the pursuit of the plunder was stalled recently when the British government claimed that it owns the famed naval vessel that went down in a fierce storm in November 1814.

“These two particular warships are under international law, considered property of the British government,” Elizabeth Whiting, a spokeswoman with the British High Commission, said Thursday in reference to the Fantome and HMS Tilbury, another wreck off Cape Breton.

“Anything on the ship would be British.”

The British are arguing that the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea gives them title to the Royal Navy warships and that the Nova Scotia government cannot hand out licences to companies hoping to dive on the sites.

Curtis Sprouse of Sovereign said his company is rejecting the claim that international law gives ownership to the British.

“We’ve been advised by our attorneys that there’s very little substance to their position and our attorneys are very confident that our rights to the vessel will be upheld,” Sprouse said from his office in Wakefield, Mass.

“We expected that this might happen.”

The company had applied for a special permit that would allow it to recover material from the site of the Fantome shipwreck, but it was rejected by the province when the British filed their objection.

The province issues the permits and licences under the Treasure Trove Act, a unique piece of legislation that allows people to dive on and recover material taken from historic shipwrecks.

Wendy Barnable, a spokeswoman with the provincial Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage, said the company’s bid to obtain a permit was turned down because of Britain’s opposition to the project.

Barnable said it’s now up to Sovereign Exploration to consult with British officials to resolve the matter, adding that she wasn’t aware of this happening in the province before.

Barnable said the company still holds a licence that allows it to dive on the site, but that it can’t recover anything from it.

According to a preliminary report by Le Chameau Explorations Ltd., the company which holds the permits to explore the site, divers have already recovered cannon and musket shot, copper buttons bearing the Royal Navy symbol, pottery, tools, and ships’ nails and bolts.

Divers also recovered copper sheathing, embossed with a distinctive English marking that indicates military or Crown property.

Under provincial law, a company can retain items that are deemed to be treasures, but must pay a 10 per cent royalty on them. Any artifacts recovered from a site must be handed over to the province.

Sovereign Exploration hasn’t confirmed whether the vessel is the Fantome, but said recovered material fits the time frame and there is debris from several other vessels in the area.

The Fantome was leading a convoy of ships back to Halifax after British and Canadian troops routed their enemy, sending them fleeing while the invading army looted and then torched the president’s house, the capital and all other public buildings.

The substantial haul was loaded on to a handful of boats that set sail for Halifax, a busy British garrison at the time.

The Fantome ran into a vicious storm on Nov. 24, 1814, and was thought to have gone down after accidentally heading into a shallow shoal.

Only two artifacts from the White House raid have been recovered — a painting of George Washington, rescued by then-first lady Dolley Madison, and a jewelry box returned to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1939 by a Canadian who said his grandfather had taken it from Washington.

John Wesley Chisholm, an independent filmmaker, said deferring to the British doesn’t protect sites that are open to plundering by treasure hunters interested in making a profit off historical relics.

“The wreck of the HMS Fantome brings into sharp focus the problems of looking after and protecting underwater treasure sites,” he said Thursday.

“Once you leave the shore, and especially once you go underwater, the ocean is like the wild west of the 21st century. We really should get out there in an organized way and see what the heck is going on.”

 

[jeff k]

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com:80/news/content/news/Treasure1027.html

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Gerry I agree with you and what better place to start a grass roots movement than this forum. We have here the attention of treasure hunters world wide. Look what happened at Jupiter last weekend.

 

[riobravo]

hi again grubby,
seems a little slow on the responses, my time is little, but my efforts are strong.
let us see what we can do in numbers
Joseph A. Saucier
P.M.B. 416, 5475 St James Drive
Port St Lucie, Fl 34983
956-455-4349

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Instead of everyone posting there name, address and phone number for everyone to see, why don't we email to a central email address or PM to someone.
I personally don't post that type of information in the clear for security reasons.

Tom

 

[ScubaFinder]

Good Point Tom, I'd like to be on the list too. Maybe we should start a new thread for just this purpose, and someone can spearhead the project, allowing us to all PM our info to a central contact. Grubby, you seem well connected and really interested in this endeavor, do you have the time to at least organize the list of names for now?

Jason

 

[Peg Leg]

What is really needed is to get the MEDIA INVOLVED - Like 60 Minutes.
This will really have an effect on the outcome of whatever you want to prove or show the WORLD.
There are enough writers on this forum that a story would be quite easy.
Without Media coverage to create interest it will go nowhere.
Peg Leg